Submission

[Pamelasv]

This is specifically concerning submission to one's husband.  What are your opinions? 

I am pretty good at being submissive to my husband in general.  Not every little detail.  Like when I know he's wrong, of course I point it out. For both our good.  He's not all bossy and does'nt Lord things over me.  But in the bigger things...like something I know will hurt me, but he is clueless. Or something I know he is wrong I will say something, but he argues, I argue back ( pointing it out in an earnest way) he gets mad, but I am right.  So I do it anyway.  Not saying I am always right of course.  What, men can't possible want a mute wife with no mind of their own.  Some probably do.   Anyway, hope this isn't a touchy subject for the women.   Or too daring for me to have typed up.  I do love my husband, and I like my roll in that. (Sometimes).  Though he is not really a spiritual leader.  No bible reading or church going for him.  But I do pray daily for him, as the Lord brought that up for me to do.  Praying scripture over him also and from a certain book that seems to be quite annointed/ powerful when reading it.  Hope this isn't too personal, too much information.  I actually feel a little funny sending this. Too personal for me I guess. 

[gdemoss]

Thanks for sharing Pamela.  I don't care to have a mute wife but I would gladly do without the mind of her own thing.   

 

[enoob57]

This is specifically concerning submission to one's husband.  What are your opinions? 

I am pretty good at being submissive to my husband in general.  Not every little detail.  Like when I know he's wrong, of course I point it out. For both our good.  He's not all bossy and does'nt Lord things over me.  But in the bigger things...like something I know will hurt me, but he is clueless. Or something I know he is wrong I will say something, but he argues, I argue back ( pointing it out in an earnest way) he gets mad, but I am right.  So I do it anyway.  Not saying I am always right of course.  What, men can't possible want a mute wife with no mind of their own.  Some probably do.   Anyway, hope this isn't a touchy subject for the women.   Or too daring for me to have typed up.  I do love my husband, and I like my roll in that. (Sometimes).  Though he is not really a spiritual leader.  No bible reading or church going for him.  But I do pray daily for him, as the Lord brought that up for me to do.  Praying scripture over him also and from a certain book that seems to be quite annointed/ powerful when reading it.  Hope this isn't too personal, too much information.  I actually feel a little funny sending this. Too personal for me I guess. 

I am reminded that nothing can be hidden that will not be revealed and the more we are able to live within
this truth the more we shall have heart malleable for God's use... we all are given positions in life to effect
the glory unto God... and the definite requirement is death to one's self for we cannot serve two masters.
Love, Steven 

[Qnts2]

Genesis 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

The Hebrew word translated to 'help meet' is ezer. Ezer is usually translated as helper. It is not a subservient role. It can also be translated as 'support'.

Psalm 54:4 Behold, God is mine helper: the Lord is with them that uphold my soul.

Helper in Psalm 54:4 is the same Hebrew word; ezer. So, women were created to be a helper, not subservient.  Given that role, it is reasonable to express opinions, disagree, present arguments, etc. However, in any partnership, someone must make the final decision. Sometimes the partners disagree, so one must make the decision. In a marriage, the wife is to submit to her husbands final decision.

In my marriage, I am more math and science oriented. I program computers. My husband is a real history buff, writes very well, and he can visualize, so is more artistic. He rearranges the furniture because he is spatially oriented. (sometimes I have come home from work to find the house re-arranged).  I keep the check book. I have the higher degree and make more money. He has skills which make our home and lives much better. I ask him questions and he teaches me. He asks me questions and I teach him. When we disagree, he makes the decision, but, sometimes if the issue is in an area which I am better at, his decision is that I should handle it.

[Ezra]

It's all a matter of attitude.  If a woman is first of all totally in submission to the Lord, then it should not be a problem for her to be in submission to her husband.  In practical terms, wives have to make numerous decisions on their own. But when it comes to issues affecting the family, if there is a difference of opinion, wives must defer to their husbands, and husbands must live with the consequences of poor decisions.  Smart husbands will recognize and appreciate the abilities of their spouses, and vice versa. Vocal feminism's agenda was to drive a wedge between husbands and wives. Smart wives should oppose feminism's agenda, which is essentially rebellion against God and His design for men and women.

[gdemoss]

When learning about this issue it was pointed out to me that there are many women who are very capable people.  They make great salaries and are very nobel.  Tge list of great accomplishments of womens abilities is raised in honor of the woman but in the end I was shown that scripture teaches that none of these traits are qualifications for godliness.  No.  Obedience wins out every time.  The rich, the able and the nobel are largely those unable to accept the truth behind Gods standard for any person, including gender.

Submission to husbands had nothing to do with the word helpmeet as she was created to be a helpmeet for her husband but since they have fallen from that created state and now because of her sin she is placed in subjection.  As Christ to the church so is the husband to the wife.  Let us obey the truth in all things

 

[Kan]

It is difficult to answer this question over submission, because there are so many versions of what that means in different era's and cultures world wide. One thing is certain, that the world of sinners has made submission a great perversion.

Our only true example of submission would be the love of Christ for the world, or His bride, He gave His life for her, and she in turn loves Him.

And yet whenever this topic is discussed we find the man in the ruling position, and the woman submissive to him. I call that inequality, don't you? What is more it is a reverse of the order that Christ gave. "Husbands love your wives," even as Christ loved the church and gave His life for it. - St Paul.

The Bible recommends that both partners submit to each other, and if Christ is any example, then the man should submit first, and not the other way around as most men recommend.

If the order of the man submitting first was followed, it would work well, because especially after sin, the woman naturally became subject to the man for protection. So the man does not have to fear if he submits to her first, of losing his position as husband and father, because we can bet that she will not dominate the relationship, unless the man is a complete mama's boy. 

What the woman wants to know in the relationship is, - if she is of benefit to her husband, and so if she is heard, she feels that she may contribute to the marriage, and will happily support the husband's idea, therefor fulfilling her God given role.

If the man is so insecure that he can't handle listening and trying out his wife's ideas, then he is likely to scream like a woman about not being understood. But a man should be calm and strong in what he wants, and who he is, so that he will not resort to power and begin abusing his partner. Equality is not about one dominating the other, it is about working together- with everything that demands cooperation.

Genuine submission as opposed to manipulating, is empowering, because it allows a couple to be patient with their opinions, and as a result wise decisions are followed.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Kan

[Qnts2]

When learning about this issue it was pointed out to me that there are many women who are very capable people.  They make great salaries and are very nobel.  Tge list of great accomplishments of womens abilities is raised in honor of the woman but in the end I was shown that scripture teaches that none of these traits are qualifications for godliness.  No.  Obedience wins out every time.  The rich, the able and the nobel are largely those unable to accept the truth behind Gods standard for any person, including gender.

Submission to husbands had nothing to do with the word helpmeet as she was created to be a helpmeet for her husband but since they have fallen from that created state and now because of her sin she is placed in subjection.  As Christ to the church so is the husband to the wife.  Let us obey the truth in all things

 

Most people I have come across who emphasize an unbalanced view of what it means to be in submission, also use the verse about being a 'help meet', with a wrong understanding of that meaning.

It is clear that the fall affected everything. Men have to work by the sweat of their brow.

Genesis 3:¹⁶ Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Well, as stated, child birth is painful. I do believe that Eve's desire was for her husband, but her desire was to God first. I think the curse was more then that. Her desire was not the wonderful Godly desire as in the garden. On the other side, Adam must not have ruled over the wife.

In the relationship of Jesus to the church and the wife to the husband, I do not believe the relationship of the church to Jesus being similar to the curse of the of the fallen relationship of the wife to the husband. The marriage relationship as comparable to the relationship of the church to Jesus, must not be like worldly marriage  relationship. So the wifes desire must be different then non-believers, and the husband ruling must be different then the non-believing husbands.

I was once part of a church with a pastor who started to emphasize the submission of the wife to the husband and the husband ruling. We left early on during the teaching but had many friends in the church. He taught a form of this which was not biblical. The wives submission to  what her husband wanted, was more never questioning him as that is questioning his authority. The wives could not work. The husbands were to rule over the household, and bring their wives into submission. That church about 6 months to 2 years later, had several divorces. Some couples who stayed together ended up at marriage counseling to save the marriage. Both spouses agreed that it was the teaching, and attempt to follow it which almost ruined their marriage.   

[Ezra]

Genesis 3:

¹⁶ Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Many Christian women fail to realize (and that is because of a lack of proper Bible teaching) that Eve's transgression had serious consequences for women. And even after they hear Bible Truth, many rebel against it.  It would appear that Eve's dialogue with the Devil was itself an ACT OF REBELLION. Consequently women are now to be in submission to their husbands, and they are forbidden to preach and teach in the churches.

That does not mean that Christian women are rendered ineffective, since there are many spiritual gifts that they can exercise and do exercise. But Scripture makes it clear that the husband is the head (authority) of his wife, hence Christian women are to also have the symbol of authority (the head covering) on their heads during worship "because of the angels" (1 Cor 11:9,10) AND ALSO BECAUSE OF MAN'S PRIORITY IN CREATION:

9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

"Power on her head" is a metaphor for the symbol of authority -- the head covering. When the angels see Christian women with covered heads, and Christian men with uncovered heads, they note that that local church is in submission to Christ (provided there is genuine heart submission). While we may not be able "to figure out" all of this, we are expected to simply obey.

[Qnts2]

 

Genesis 3:

¹⁶ Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Many Christian women fail to realize (and that is because of a lack of proper Bible teaching) that Eve's transgression had serious consequences for women. And even after they hear Bible Truth, many rebel against it.  It would appear that Eve's dialogue with the Devil was itself an ACT OF REBELLION. Consequently women are now to be in submission to their husbands, and they are forbidden to preach and teach in the churches.

That does not mean that Christian women are rendered ineffective, since there are many spiritual gifts that they can exercise and do exercise. But Scripture makes it clear that the husband is the head (authority) of his wife, hence Christian women are to also have the symbol of authority (the head covering) on their heads during worship "because of the angels" (1 Cor 11:9,10) AND ALSO BECAUSE OF MAN'S PRIORITY IN CREATION:

9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

"Power on her head" is a metaphor for the symbol of authority -- the head covering. When the angels see Christian women with covered heads, and Christian men with uncovered heads, they note that that local church is in submission to Christ (provided there is genuine heart submission). While we may not be able "to figure out" all of this, we are expected to simply obey.

We disagree, definitely.

Eve did not rebel. She was deceived. Adam sinned.

Genesis 3:¹³ Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

2 Cor 11:13 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

Since scripture says Eve was deceived, that is the truth.  That is important because the fundamental belief is that Adam's sin was inherited by all of his descendents. Jesus father was God, not a human, so Jesus was born without sin.