Junipero Serra declared to be "a saint"

[ayin jade]

Therese wrote:

Why call certain people saints?   To hold them up as examples of a holy life.     

 

Serra is not a good example of a holy life. 

Why do you say that?

See what I posted earlier in this thread, along with the links. He set up a mission system that was genocidal for the local indians. He also forced conversions and beat them.

[thereselittleflower]

Therese wrote:

Why call certain people saints?   To hold them up as examples of a holy life.     

 

Serra is not a good example of a holy life. 

Why do you say that?

See what I posted earlier in this thread, along with the links. He set up a mission system that was genocidal for the local indians. He also forced conversions and beat them.

According to who?

Some unnamed book with an unnamed author and alleged crimes?

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[ayin jade]

Therese wrote:

Why call certain people saints?   To hold them up as examples of a holy life.     

 

Serra is not a good example of a holy life. 

Why do you say that?

See what I posted earlier in this thread, along with the links. He set up a mission system that was genocidal for the local indians. He also forced conversions and beat them.

According to who?

Some unnamed book with an unnamed author and alleged crimes?

 

 

 

The links I posted were to pbs documentary and also to the san diego historical society (where one of the missions is located) or perhaps it was the mission website itself. Regardless, there is information on display at the san diego mission itself that says so and has said so for years. The information is quite credible. There are also plenty of other sources out there that says the same thing.

Edited September 25, 2015 by ayin jade

[ayin jade]

This was strictly a political move by the pope. It was intended to legitimize illegals in the us. Serra is considered by a vatican spokesman as the patron saint of immigrants.

 

This link discusses how wrong serra is.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/junipero-serra-native-americans_560171fbe4b0fde8b0cfcb32

 

The more I read, the sicker I am over this. What a slap in the face, a complete insult, to native americans.

[thereselittleflower]

Therese wrote:

Why call certain people saints?   To hold them up as examples of a holy life.     

 

Serra is not a good example of a holy life. 

Why do you say that?

See what I posted earlier in this thread, along with the links. He set up a mission system that was genocidal for the local indians. He also forced conversions and beat them.

According to who?

Some unnamed book with an unnamed author and alleged crimes?

 

 

 

The links I posted were to pbs documentary and also to the san diego historical society (where one of the missions is located) or perhaps it was the mission website itself. Regardless, there is information on display at the san diego mission itself that says so and has said so for years. The information is quite credible. There are also plenty of other sources out there that says the same thing.

Your source, pbs, says he led an army.      I very much doubt he led an army ayb jade.  He was a monk.

 pbs is not known to be friendly to Catholics or accurate in their reports on Catholicism.  They promote anti-Catholicism.    Every claim in that article is nothing more than allegations without substantiation.   They offer not one shred of evidence to back up their claims, not one one source, let alone credible source for their "information."

The quote found in your link to 'Demoncracy Now' claiming that what Junnipero Serra and other missionaries did:

 "was as close to genocide as any tribal people had faced, or would face, on the North American continent"

 is a false attribution.    

A false attribution is an appeal to an irrelevant, unqualified, unidentified, biased or fabricated source in support of an argument.

 

The quoted partial sentence isn't even about the Catholic Missions, but about what happened AFTER the US took possession of California in 1848:

 

When the United States took possession in 1848 ..  It seemed not a single square foot of California was left  undistrubed in the relentless pursuit of godl.  Loos of their land was the least of the abuses heaped on the California Indians. Miners overran their land, killed the remaining game, and captured women and children. Captive females were secually abused while children were sold into slavery.  Shooting Indians became a sick form of sport for the whites.  A "sporting" party might wipe out an entire camp of indigenous people in an afternoon.  "It was as close to genocide as any tribal people had faced, or would face, on the North American continent."

 

Daily Life During the Indian Wars

Copyright 2011

 By Clarissa W. Confer

  

The sites you are presenting are giving us unsubstantiated anti-Catholic rhetoric designed to inflame and incite.    

Even in the very link you gave from Democracy Now, if hit the link to go to the full interview, it is brought out that:

Professor Rubén Mendoza of California State University, Monterey Bay, was invited to the Vatican in April as part of a panel of experts to discuss the basis for Father Serra’s canonization. Mendoza told USA Today, quote, "Father Serra was not only a man of his time, he was a man ahead of his time in his advocacy for native people on the frontier." Others have also defended the pope’s choice for canonization. Monsignor J. Michael McKiernan of Mission Basilica San Juan Capistrano said Father Serra helped spread the love and mercy of God.

 

Yet it was totally ignored.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[other one]

this thread leaves me speechless......     I think I need to just go be last for a while....

[ayin jade]

Therese, I posted links to other things too. You can google for yourself. This is something Ive known about for decades. Its taught to california children. I distinctly recall one of the missions having an informative spot on the grounds of the mission itself discussing it. This isnt something that is from wacko sites and no one else knows about it. All the major news media are talking about it. Various tribes are outraged and writing letters of condemnation about it. They are also protesting this. One of the news sites I read, nbc or abc I forget which, specifically mentioned that this was done SOLELY to legitimize illegals in the us. Feel free to research it for yourself since you reject my sources. This isnt something I only heard about today and pulled out of some anti rcc site. This is legitimate history.

[thereselittleflower]

This was strictly a political move by the pope. It was intended to legitimize illegals in the us. Serra is considered by a vatican spokesman as the patron saint of immigrants.

 

This link discusses how wrong serra is.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/junipero-serra-native-americans_560171fbe4b0fde8b0cfcb32

 

The more I read, the sicker I am over this. What a slap in the face, a complete insult, to native americans.

You trust the Huffington Post to get matters of theology in the Catholic Church right?  Even when it's been proven over and over again how infintisimal the understanding of the press corps is on matters of doctrine of the Catholic Church?  They NEVER get it right.

If one  constantly take in bad information then it is no surprise if one comes to bad conclusions and becomes ill because of it.  

 

 

 

[other one]

Maybe that's because the doctrine is not really what you profess it to be....    Like Islam, you say one thing and do another

[ayin jade]

This was strictly a political move by the pope. It was intended to legitimize illegals in the us. Serra is considered by a vatican spokesman as the patron saint of immigrants.

 

This link discusses how wrong serra is.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/junipero-serra-native-americans_560171fbe4b0fde8b0cfcb32

 

The more I read, the sicker I am over this. What a slap in the face, a complete insult, to native americans.

 

You trust the Huffington Post to get matters of theology in the Catholic Church right?  Even when it's been proven over and over again how infintisimal the understanding of the press corps is on matters of doctrine of the Catholic Church?  They NEVER get it right.

If one  constantly take in bad information then it is no surprise if one comes to bad conclusions and becomes ill because of it.  

 

 

 

Sigh I was showing you what others were saying about it, how the tribes are reacting to it. The information itself I got from historical things that I cant link you to. Because they were from museums and historical documents that are not online. I did however link to a site that is the san diego historical museum which oversees the san diego mission he established. That is about as authoritative as I can link to here, and you reject that as well. So do the research for yourself and see. This is not obscure history and its upset a lot of folks who are descendents of the genocide junipero serra began. This is NOT a holy man.