Confirming the Covenant

[WilliamL]

70 Sevens are decreed for your people and your holy city to: 1. finish transgression; 2.  put an end to sin;  3.  to bring in everlasting righteousness; 4.  to atone for wickedness; 5.  to seal up visions and prophecy; 6.  to anoint the most holy.

The Hebrew is clear "al-amek v-al-eer." (This program did not accept the Hebrew script.)

H5921  `al  al: above, over, upon, or against (yet always in this last relation with a downward aspect).

Literally, "upon thy people and upon thy city"; not for.

You are changing the meaning of the text to fit your conclusion; not basing your conclusion upon the literal meaning of the text.

It is still the same;  What they are To Do.  70 Sevens are decreed upon them, It is up to them to accomplish the 6 tasks.  or 70 Sevens are decreed for them to do the six tasks given to them.

You are still doing the same thing, putting in words that are not there. The passage does not say that the Jews and Jerusalem are "to do" anything. What it says is that these things are decreed upon them, period. If you cannot understand the difference, it is because your mind has been blinded by your pre-interpretation of the meaning of the passage.

[WilliamL]

...What's more relevant to me is:

• Who confirms the covenant for seven years?
• Which covenant does he confirm?

The covenant confirmed was Rome's original covenant with King Herod, Rome's ally, allowing the Jews to worship YHWH only, and no other god: a right exclusive to the Jews in the Roman Empire. (All other peoples were required to worship the emperor, but also allowed worship their own gods.) This is the covenant Vespasian caused to be confirmed when he came to fight against the Jewish rebellion against Roman rule that began in 66 A.D.

Vespasian offered peace and sole YHWH-worship to all who would not oppose Rome: thus he confirmed the ancient covenant between Rome and Herod.

Posted Friday at 5:31 PM (edited) · Report post

9:27 And he will have caused to make strong/to prevail/to confirm [a] covenant for many one week [of years].     [“…he will have caused”: 3 masc. sing. Hiphil Perfect.

This was Vespasian’s policy, which he established from the beginning of the war: for those Jews who would continue to submit to Rome’s civil authority, Rome would continue to maintain the peace and permit the Jews to allow only YHWH-worship in the land. But any place in the land that harbored rebellion against Rome, including Jerusalem and Temple, would be desolated.

Flavius Josephus, The Jewish War, Preface 8: “[Vespasian] took…some of its [Galilee’s] cities by treaties, and on terms.”  III:ii:4: “…the inhabitants of Sepphoris…the largest city of Galilee…received Vespasian, the Roman general, very kindly, and readily promised that they would assist him…”  III:ix:8: “Now the seniors of the people [of Tiberius]…fell down before Vespasian, to supplicate his favor… Vespasian…accepted of their rights hands by way of security…[and] the citizens opened to him their gates…”]

The Jewish War lasted 7 years, 66-73 A.D. This prophecy has been fulfilled.

 

[Esther4:14]

Last Daze, 

I find your observations very interesting.  I have read this verse and considered the constitution many times but could not see how they would fit together because we are living in a time when what is happening to the constitution resembles what this verse is saying.  Like for example, the constitution were an example of what the covenant that will be confirmed for one week would look like when it will be revoked in the middle of the week.  But, this obviously wouldn't work because 1776-2015+ would not equal a week.  Although, every time I hear the arguments about freedoms being taken away from us that are included in the constitution, I think of this verse, which didn't make sense because I did read through it without considering that this was part of an existing doctrine.  My personal speculation is that this is how the US would be recruited under the beast.  He will confirm principles from the constitution; or, use principles in the constitution to appeal to Christians in joining in some sort of unification under the Antichrist.  But, this is just speculation.  I do think it is too soon to know for sure what this would entail.  Just wanted to share my considerations.  

Thanks for your thoughts, Esther.  The prophecy is stated as concerning Daniel's people and holy city.  It references Jerusalem as the holy city so I take "Daniels' people" to mean the Jews.  How do you think this prophecy relates to the US and it's constitution?

Because the state of Israel will be the central location of the UN, and they will confirm a covenant with the US to continue the constitution, and this will be the deception that would deceive the elect, if that were possible (Matthew 24:24) because many Christians will probably still think that this is a victory for God's people.  Because the state of Israel is successfully dividing us into Jews and gentiles again, and if we are separate, and a Jew rejects Christ, isn't that the definition of an antiChrist.  More so, because as decedents of God's chosen people, the reason behind why Jesus came into the world.  He came into the world and died on a cross to save His people first, and if for a time they inhabit the land, and in that time they reject Him the same way they did when He lived, isn't that the definition of an Antichrist.  

"But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more." (Luke 12:48).  

The Jews were given the law.  The law was a gift, not a curse.  "The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple;" (Psalm 19:7).  They rejected the law, and then many of them rejected the Savior who died for them.  They are even more accountable for their rejection of their Messiah.  

But, the builders of the state of Israel have almost successfully made the whole earth worship it, and when what is holding it back is taken out of the way, it will be revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:6).  With the exception of the US, which would be the only country with any real ability to resist the change.  That is why there is a complex plan to deceive the US and control the media.  We are the only ones who can say no because we can exist independently of global governance.  Whereas many countries are not able to do this and have already been occupied and are controlled by the UN.  Therefore, because of this, the constitution would be confirmed as a agreement with our nation as a result of this.  Like a peace treaty.  Like a false sign of respect for our country and the loss of our independent economy, in exchange for the global mark making us part of a global Israel.  As though the Antichrist had a heart and cared about what we will lose as a nation because of whatever event is coming that will cause us to unify the world under a mark under the banner of Israel.  

Edited November 3, 2015 by Esther4:14

[WilliamL]

... Daniel 9:27 focuses on the last or 70th week of Daniel, which is yet future. Therefore this covenant is definitely NOT the New Covenant, but a phony covenant with Israel concocted by the Antichrist.  Why is it phony?  Because it is broken (reneged) in the middle of the 7 year period, and we have multiple Scriptures telling us about what happens for 3 1/2 years (forty two months or 1,260 days). ...

For all of you -- not just Ezra, but seemingly everyone posting on this string -- who continue to insist that Daniel's 70th week is End Time, consider what verse 26 says:

And after 62 weeks/sevens [of years] shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself. And the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and its end will come with a flood [of attackers]. And until the end of the war desolations are decreed.

Verse 27 says that this destruction comes mid-week or thereafter: Jerusalem is destroyed. But Rev. 11:3, 7-8 say,

“And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” ... When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

 

So we see that Jerusalem has not been destroyed by anyone at this time. Likewise, when the Lord returns to set his feet on the Mount of Olives and fight against the nations (Zech. 14), Jerusalem is still in existence then. Therefore, for those of you who insist on an End Time fulfillment of Dan. 9:26-27 -- where do you put the destruction of Jerusalem in your timeline?

This problem of course, does not exist for those who accept the fulfillment of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

 

 

[Last Daze]

...What's more relevant to me is:

• Who confirms the covenant for seven years?
• Which covenant does he confirm?

The covenant confirmed was Rome's original covenant with King Herod, Rome's ally, allowing the Jews to worship YHWH only, and no other god: a right exclusive to the Jews in the Roman Empire. (All other peoples were required to worship the emperor, but also allowed worship their own gods.) This is the covenant Vespasian caused to be confirmed when he came to fight against the Jewish rebellion against Roman rule that began in 66 A.D.

Vespasian offered peace and sole YHWH-worship to all who would not oppose Rome: thus he confirmed the ancient covenant between Rome and Herod.

Posted Friday at 5:31 PM (edited) · Report post

9:27 And he will have caused to make strong/to prevail/to confirm [a] covenant for many one week [of years].     [“…he will have caused”: 3 masc. sing. Hiphil Perfect.

This was Vespasian’s policy, which he established from the beginning of the war: for those Jews who would continue to submit to Rome’s civil authority, Rome would continue to maintain the peace and permit the Jews to allow only YHWH-worship in the land. But any place in the land that harbored rebellion against Rome, including Jerusalem and Temple, would be desolated.

Flavius Josephus, The Jewish War, Preface 8: “[Vespasian] took…some of its [Galilee’s] cities by treaties, and on terms.”  III:ii:4: “…the inhabitants of Sepphoris…the largest city of Galilee…received Vespasian, the Roman general, very kindly, and readily promised that they would assist him…”  III:ix:8: “Now the seniors of the people [of Tiberius]…fell down before Vespasian, to supplicate his favor… Vespasian…accepted of their rights hands by way of security…[and] the citizens opened to him their gates…”]

The Jewish War lasted 7 years, 66-73 A.D. This prophecy has been fulfilled.

 

^{That's an interesting take on the passage.  I'm not sure we can say conclusively one way or the other.  The confusion, at least for me, seems to arise from the ambiguity of the use of titles and pronouns as related to who or what's being referenced.}


 

[Last Daze]

Last Daze, 

I find your observations very interesting.  I have read this verse and considered the constitution many times but could not see how they would fit together because we are living in a time when what is happening to the constitution resembles what this verse is saying.  Like for example, the constitution were an example of what the covenant that will be confirmed for one week would look like when it will be revoked in the middle of the week.  But, this obviously wouldn't work because 1776-2015+ would not equal a week.  Although, every time I hear the arguments about freedoms being taken away from us that are included in the constitution, I think of this verse, which didn't make sense because I did read through it without considering that this was part of an existing doctrine.  My personal speculation is that this is how the US would be recruited under the beast.  He will confirm principles from the constitution; or, use principles in the constitution to appeal to Christians in joining in some sort of unification under the Antichrist.  But, this is just speculation.  I do think it is too soon to know for sure what this would entail.  Just wanted to share my considerations.  

Thanks for your thoughts, Esther.  The prophecy is stated as concerning Daniel's people and holy city.  It references Jerusalem as the holy city so I take "Daniels' people" to mean the Jews.  How do you think this prophecy relates to the US and it's constitution?

Because the state of Israel will be the central location of the UN, and they will confirm a covenant with the US to continue the constitution

What is this part of your reply based on?

[WilliamL]

...What's more relevant to me is:

• Who confirms the covenant for seven years?
• Which covenant does he confirm?

The covenant confirmed was Rome's original covenant with King Herod, Rome's ally, allowing the Jews to worship YHWH only, and no other god: a right exclusive to the Jews in the Roman Empire. (All other peoples were required to worship the emperor, but also allowed worship their own gods.) This is the covenant Vespasian caused to be confirmed when he came to fight against the Jewish rebellion against Roman rule that began in 66 A.D.

Vespasian offered peace and sole YHWH-worship to all who would not oppose Rome: thus he confirmed the ancient covenant between Rome and Herod.

Posted Friday at 5:31 PM (edited) · Report post

9:27 And he will have caused to make strong/to prevail/to confirm [a] covenant for many one week [of years].     [“…he will have caused”: 3 masc. sing. Hiphil Perfect.

This was Vespasian’s policy, which he established from the beginning of the war: for those Jews who would continue to submit to Rome’s civil authority, Rome would continue to maintain the peace and permit the Jews to allow only YHWH-worship in the land. But any place in the land that harbored rebellion against Rome, including Jerusalem and Temple, would be desolated.

Flavius Josephus, The Jewish War, Preface 8: “[Vespasian] took…some of its [Galilee’s] cities by treaties, and on terms.”  III:ii:4: “…the inhabitants of Sepphoris…the largest city of Galilee…received Vespasian, the Roman general, very kindly, and readily promised that they would assist him…”  III:ix:8: “Now the seniors of the people [of Tiberius]…fell down before Vespasian, to supplicate his favor… Vespasian…accepted of their rights hands by way of security…[and] the citizens opened to him their gates…”]

The Jewish War lasted 7 years, 66-73 A.D. This prophecy has been fulfilled.

 

^{That's an interesting take on the passage.  I'm not sure we can say conclusively one way or the other.  The confusion, at least for me, seems to arise from the ambiguity of the use of titles and pronouns as related to who or what's being referenced.}

Understandable, I had the same problem. It wasn't until I had attained a good understanding of Hebrew, and was able to parse the whole passage out word by word, that I came to my conclusions. The Hiphil tense in Hebrew is causative: "he will cause to confirm" is the precise reading of 9:27. Which is precisely what Vespasian did while in Judea before he left for Rome to become emperor, leaving his son Titus in charge to prosecute the end of the war.

[Ezra]

Therefore, for those of you who insist on an End Time fulfillment of Dan. 9:26-27 -- where do you put the destruction of Jerusalem in your timeline?

As you well know, prophecies are only very concise and condensed even though they may cover long periods of time. So the way to look at Daniel 9:26 is as follows:

30 AD  -- And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

70 AD-- and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;

FUTURE -- and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

[Esther4:14]

Last Daze, 

I find your observations very interesting.  I have read this verse and considered the constitution many times but could not see how they would fit together because we are living in a time when what is happening to the constitution resembles what this verse is saying.  Like for example, the constitution were an example of what the covenant that will be confirmed for one week would look like when it will be revoked in the middle of the week.  But, this obviously wouldn't work because 1776-2015+ would not equal a week.  Although, every time I hear the arguments about freedoms being taken away from us that are included in the constitution, I think of this verse, which didn't make sense because I did read through it without considering that this was part of an existing doctrine.  My personal speculation is that this is how the US would be recruited under the beast.  He will confirm principles from the constitution; or, use principles in the constitution to appeal to Christians in joining in some sort of unification under the Antichrist.  But, this is just speculation.  I do think it is too soon to know for sure what this would entail.  Just wanted to share my considerations.  

Thanks for your thoughts, Esther.  The prophecy is stated as concerning Daniel's people and holy city.  It references Jerusalem as the holy city so I take "Daniels' people" to mean the Jews.  How do you think this prophecy relates to the US and it's constitution?

Because the state of Israel will be the central location of the UN, and they will confirm a covenant with the US to continue the constitution

What is this part of your reply based on?

"A view of Government House in Jerusalem which is located on Jabal El Muqabber and is the Headquarters of the United Nations Truce Supervision Organization (UNTSO). The site commands a spectacular view of Jerusalem and the general surroundings. This scene, taken from the garden looking south-west."  http://www.unmultimedia.org/s/photo/detail/126/0126345.html

Well, this and that the UN is already controlling the world through debt.  It only looks like these countries maintain their own governments.  

Edited November 3, 2015 by Esther4:14

[MorningGlory]

Last Daze, 

I find your observations very interesting.  I have read this verse and considered the constitution many times but could not see how they would fit together because we are living in a time when what is happening to the constitution resembles what this verse is saying.  Like for example, the constitution were an example of what the covenant that will be confirmed for one week would look like when it will be revoked in the middle of the week.  But, this obviously wouldn't work because 1776-2015+ would not equal a week.  Although, every time I hear the arguments about freedoms being taken away from us that are included in the constitution, I think of this verse, which didn't make sense because I did read through it without considering that this was part of an existing doctrine.  My personal speculation is that this is how the US would be recruited under the beast.  He will confirm principles from the constitution; or, use principles in the constitution to appeal to Christians in joining in some sort of unification under the Antichrist.  But, this is just speculation.  I do think it is too soon to know for sure what this would entail.  Just wanted to share my considerations.  

Thanks for your thoughts, Esther.  The prophecy is stated as concerning Daniel's people and holy city.  It references Jerusalem as the holy city so I take "Daniels' people" to mean the Jews.  How do you think this prophecy relates to the US and it's constitution?

Because the state of Israel will be the central location of the UN, and they will confirm a covenant with the US to continue the constitution, and this will be the deception that would deceive the elect, if that were possible (Matthew 24:24) because many Christians will probably still think that this is a victory for God's people.  Because the state of Israel is successfully dividing us into Jews and gentiles again, and if we are separate, and a Jew rejects Christ, isn't that the definition of an antiChrist.  More so, because as decedents of God's chosen people, the reason behind why Jesus came into the world.  He came into the world and died on a cross to save His people first, and if for a time they inhabit the land, and in that time they reject Him the same way they did when He lived, isn't that the definition of an Antichrist.  

"But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more." (Luke 12:48).  

The Jews were given the law.  The law was a gift, not a curse.  "The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple;" (Psalm 19:7).  They rejected the law, and then many of them rejected the Savior who died for them.  They are even more accountable for their rejection of their Messiah.  

But, the builders of the state of Israel have almost successfully made the whole earth worship it, and when what is holding it back is taken out of the way, it will be revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:6).  With the exception of the US, which would be the only country with any real ability to resist the change.  That is why there is a complex plan to deceive the US and control the media.  We are the only ones who can say no because we can exist independently of global governance.  Whereas many countries are not able to do this and have already been occupied and are controlled by the UN.  Therefore, because of this, the constitution would be confirmed as a agreement with our nation as a result of this.  Like a peace treaty.  Like a false sign of respect for our country and the loss of our independent economy, in exchange for the global mark making us part of a global Israel.  As though the Antichrist had a heart and cared about what we will lose as a nation because of whatever event is coming that will cause us to unify the world under a mark under the banner of Israel.  

I think you're showing your true colors, Esther.  So you think Israel is the anti-Christ?  The whole world worships Israel?  Are you living on planet Earth?  Israel is our enemy?  Do you even OWN a Bible?  Your statements above come directly from one who is suffering under delusion and I urge you to repent and turn away from your anit-Semitic school of thought.  That will lead you to only one end.