Creation and an Old Earth - One Possibility

[Kan]

 

I do not believe the prehistoric and current animal kingdoms could move that fast.  In any event, you are speculating beyond Holy Scripture what you cannot understand from scripture.  I'm in the same boat as you even though I believe in an OEC.  I still believe in the 6-24 hour days of restoration, as you believe in 6-24 hour days of original creation.  And furthermore, we both believe in a literal interpretation of Holy Scripture.  I believe we are both missing something here, but I'm not arguing just to be arguing.  I don't believe Adam was a computer like human, and there is no evidence that angels were either.  Just speaking the name would take some large amount of time unless you are advocating evolution.  What it is we are both missing is beyond my abilities to explain.  Maybe beast of the field does not mean the whole animal kingdom.  Just a thought.  I don't think we can resolve this with the scriptural information we now have.  That doesn't mean it's not true.  Am I making sense to you?

Your questions are reasonable, from our perspective and experience of what can be, but the Bible is just stating the truth, and so if it surpasses anything we know, we are challenged to accept it and investigate it. However, if we are inclined to study by faith rather than doubt, we will find out amazing things about the creation and the first humans. 

About naming the animals, it is not too mysterious, because God "brought" the animals to Adam. Notice that whatever he named them, was its name. So God already had a name for each animal, and Adam named them the same as God, it proved that he was made after the image of God.

Each animal was named after the impression it left on Adam's mind. When he looked at each animal, he noticed everything about it, and also sensed everything about it, from its demeanor, purpose and to its overall expression of love. The name he gave to each animal was a description of its essence as part of the whole creation.

We could talk about Adam in detail, and find out some of the things he was capable of, but again it doesn't take any investigation to understand that, because by faith we know he was made like God. That says everything doesn't it?

To think that God will restore sinners to that original majestic state should be a great motive to praise God, to realize that what we go through on earth cannot be compared to the glory which will be revealed in us.

So you're saying God named the animals and Adam had no choice in the matter.

No. My post does not suggest that either.

Genesis 2:19 "...and whatsoever Adam called every creature, that was the name thereof."

That could mean that the name stuck after Adam named it, or that it already had a name, or both at the same time. 

God brought the animals to Adam "to see what he would call them:" Having made him in His own image, there was the moment of delight in that Adam thought and spoke the intended impact that the animal had on him, and named them accordingly. 

The names Adam gave each animal, had a corresponding meaning, it was not an exercise in how may different names Adam could make up, as people do. What he said about his partner is indicative of this- 2:23. Again, later Adam names his wife "Eve," 3:20, meaning "the mother of all living" or simply "life/giver."

I misunderstood what you were saying.  I think you are presuming a bit beyond what's in the Biblical text, but I don't have any real problem with what you've written here.  My problem with this text is two-fold: 1) how long would it take Adam to name all the beasts of the field; and 2) does beasts of the field mean every animal species.  Let's say there are roughly 8.7 million species on earth (current estimate).  At one second per beast, that would take you (or Adam) about 9 months given a seven day week - 8 hour work day.  No wonder Adam wanted a helper.  God would have to teleport each animal in for Adam to see and name.  A second doesn't seem quite long enough.

Yes, I've thought about the same thing and came to the same conclusion. I also reasoned what others have said here, about original species or families, not as diverse as today. But still, there would be thousands of different types of animals, and it is possible that God showed them to Adam in a linked way, so that he could see how each creation was a progression of a principle in thought or whatever. 

The other thing is the capability of some people's minds which are faster than a computer in different areas of cognition and the senses, and it is possible that Adam has all these abilities in tact, so that he would only have to name an animal in his thoughts, and God being able to read those, could flash the animals through at a rate we would imagine was not possible.

Given what other things I have picked up on over the years about the first pair, it is very likely the above is true, and when w look at the word by faith, and accept it, we know it is a fact that Adam named a whole host of every life form on earth in a matter of perhaps a morning session.

We could then ask, what about the plants, did Adam know them too? The answer would probably be, that he had a fairly good idea of every kind of plant out there in a matter of a short time. There are several reasons for that, one that if you observe the whole plant kingdom, you will find themes that run through the whole kingdom. for example,. the lemon scent, has many variations, coupled with other scents, and the lemon scent itself is found in a variety of plants ranging from, many kinds of trees and shrubs, to ground covering plants, to grass, seeds and fruits.

Then another example, the needle like leaves of a pine tree, can be found in all kinds of plants, as above. Adam would have easily picked up on those variations and harmonies with the entire system of living organisms and made the most natural connections. All these principles of variation within boundaries are based on another great system of morality or spiritual law, so that in essence what each creation expresses is the foundation of God's laws of love and life for the universe, which are summarized into a few categories, with subdivisions numbered in the trillions, and yet always traceable to a simple formula. Pardon the rambling, but it is a very great subject, and I just wanted to throw a couple of aspects out there to give us the idea that all things are connected and organized, and that this organization makes it easier to remember and discern the characteristics of creation.

Part of that organization us already given in Genesis, where God categorizes the animals into beasts of the field, creeping things, etc.

[enoob57]

God subjected the creation to Himself not Himself to the creation!

I believe God is outside of time and creation (this universe).  I don't know what point you think you're making.  God violating His creative work's framework would be essentially God admitting He made a mistake!  My God doesn't make mistakes.

I have read your expressions of Who God 'IS' for a awhile now and have come to the conclusion The Bible is not the only authority
in your framework of theology... (but) in God's Word is the statement of God that we must use no other material than His Word to
build our relationship with Him!
1 Cor 3:11
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
John 1:1-2
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
KJV
the boundary of hermeneutics is that which is God's Word as written with no fanciful thoughts period...
You have defiled your thoughts with many things that are not found in Scripture thinking they are and when asked to clearly show them
you do not because they are simply not there... Theology is built only from God's Word and that must be arranged by The Holy Spirit within.
a exacting science of hermeneutics:
 

Techniques of hermeneutics[edit]

In the interpretation of a text, hermeneutics considers the original medium^[12] as well as what language says, supposes, doesn't say, and implies. The process consists of several steps for best attaining the Scriptural author's intended meaning(s). One such process is taught by Henry A Virkler, in Hermeneutics: Principles and Processes of Biblical Interpretation (1981):

• Lexical-syntactical analysis: This step looks at the words used and the way the words are used. Different order of the sentence, the punctuation, the tense of the verse are all aspects that are looked at in the lexical syntactical method. Here, lexicons and grammar aids can help in extracting meaning from the text.
• Historical/cultural analysis: The history and culture surrounding the authors is important to understand to aid in interpretation. For instance, understanding the Jewish sects of the Palestine and the government that ruled Palestine in New Testament times increases understanding of Scripture. And, understanding the connotations of positions such as the High Priest and that of the tax collector helps us know what others thought of the people holding these positions.
• Contextual analysis: A verse out of context can often be taken to mean something completely different from the intention. This method focuses on the importance of looking at the context of a verse in its chapter, book and even biblical context.
• Theological analysis: It is often said that a single verse usually doesn't make a theology. This is because Scripture often touches on issues in several books. For instance, gifts of the Spirit are spoken about in Romans, Ephesians and 1 Corinthians. To take a verse from Corinthians without taking into account other passages that deal with the same topic can cause a poor interpretation.
• Special literary analysis: There are several special literary aspects to look at, but the overarching theme is that each genre of Scripture has a different set of rules that applies to it. Of the genres found in Scripture, there are: narratives, histories, prophecies, apocalyptic writings, poetry, psalms and letters. In these, there are differing levels of allegory, figurative language, metaphors, similes and literal language. For instance, the apocalyptic writings and poetry have more figurative and allegorical language than does the narrative or historical writing. These must be addressed, and the genre recognized to gain a full understanding of the intended meaning.

Howard Hendricks, longtime professor of hermeneutics at Dallas Theological Seminary, set out the method of observing the text, interpreting the text, applying the text in his book, Living By the Book. Other major Christian teachers, such as Charles R. (Chuck) Swindoll, who wrote the foreword, Kay Arthur and David Jeremiah have based their hermeneutics on the principles Howard teaches.

David L. Barr states there are three obstacles that stand in the way of correctly interpreting the biblical writings: We speak a different language, we live approximately two millennia later, and we bring different expectations to the text.^[13] Additionally, Barr suggests that we approach the reading of the Bible with significantly different literary expectations than those in reading other forms of literature and writing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_hermeneutics
The above is entirely a fundamental response to letting God's Word be formed within a person- so that when one speaks they speak for God's Word and
not for the world they are in (traditions) or even their own first born initiatives (fallen nature abilities)...  it is a complete congruent work of Spirit and redeemed!
Love God's Word enough to do the work that is suggested here in order to be sure it is His Word that is in you...   Love, Steven

[SavedOnebyGrace]

This is a waste of my time arguing with the clueless.  You say I'm going outside scriptures (which I'm not) and yet you're doing the same thing here you accuse me of.  Roy B. Zuck and John Walvoord editors and contributors of The Bible Knowledge Commentary (Dallas Theological Seminary) provide much of the information I've used in my replies.  You can't have it both ways.  I've been studying the Gap Theory as long as I've been a Christian, which is 33-34 years.  You have no new information to provide me that I haven't already considered.  Time is short and I'll waste no more time on you.

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

Don't fret too much Steven. The list you're on grows daily.

 

[enoob57]

This is a waste of my time arguing with the clueless.  You say I'm going outside scriptures (which I'm not) and yet you're doing the same thing here you accuse me of.  Roy B. Zuck and John Walvoord editors and contributors of The Bible Knowledge Commentary (Dallas Theological Seminary) provide much of the information I've used in my replies.  You can't have it both ways.  I've been studying the Gap Theory as long as I've been a Christian, which is 33-34 years.  You have no new information to provide me that I haven't already considered.  Time is short and I'll waste no more time on you.

Wonderful now show me in Scripture itself where gap is stated or indicated with other Scripture to support the intended gap
What you fail to understand that is was conservative scholars that caved to the science to answer for the Bible BUT the Bible
needs not mankind to answer for it but to it...  
Ex 20:11
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Ex 31:17
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
KJV
There are simply no gaps in this ... unless your experiencing gaps in your week

Love, Steven

[n2thelight]

It always fascinates me when people try to put God in a box

Question....what bible scripture or rule says that everything God creates has to be brand spanking new?

Adam was created as a full grown man, mature in every way.   he was not made a baby.  If you were to look at him on day one, you might have though he was 25 or 30. because God made him that way

Eve was the same way, God did not create Eve and present her to Adam as a baby....but as a WOMAN  (Whoa Man!)

All of the animals were similarly created fully mature.....

So how big of a stretch is it to believe that God created the earth already old.....4 billion years old, with a history in place (including those pesky fossils), ready to support life, ready in all ways for Act 1 of His grand play?

Science teaches us that young planets cannot support life, that they are too violent , too devoid of life.  God would not plop us a new planet and expect us to live. No He would provide an environment that was run in and ready to support life..... So why would it take 4 billion years for God to do that, when He could just speak a 4 billion year old universe into being.

So in this scenario, Yes the universe is 4 billion years old, all of science would register that.... because that is the way God made it....6000 years ago.

 

Many things are given to us in life as a test....mostly about to determine our pride and humility. To me, this is a perfect test.  God says He made it in 6 days 6000 years ago by speaking it into being.....man says it exploded into existence and developed over 4 billion years.   Who are you going to believe.

This is really only a problem if you can't think outside the box you are trying to put God In.

But God....can do anything....even causing those  who are "professing to be wise, (to) become fools" Romans 1:22

 

The earth is billions of years old and it was'nt created that way(old) It was created perfect,but He destroyed it after the rebellion of satan...satan was,nt created evil,he became that way......

Try the below study

http://biblestudysite.com/begin.htm

Don't want to debate just dropping some knowledge,believe what you will...........

[enoob57]

It always fascinates me when people try to put God in a box

Question....what bible scripture or rule says that everything God creates has to be brand spanking new?

Adam was created as a full grown man, mature in every way.   he was not made a baby.  If you were to look at him on day one, you might have though he was 25 or 30. because God made him that way

Eve was the same way, God did not create Eve and present her to Adam as a baby....but as a WOMAN  (Whoa Man!)

All of the animals were similarly created fully mature.....

So how big of a stretch is it to believe that God created the earth already old.....4 billion years old, with a history in place (including those pesky fossils), ready to support life, ready in all ways for Act 1 of His grand play?

Science teaches us that young planets cannot support life, that they are too violent , too devoid of life.  God would not plop us a new planet and expect us to live. No He would provide an environment that was run in and ready to support life..... So why would it take 4 billion years for God to do that, when He could just speak a 4 billion year old universe into being.

So in this scenario, Yes the universe is 4 billion years old, all of science would register that.... because that is the way God made it....6000 years ago.

 

Many things are given to us in life as a test....mostly about to determine our pride and humility. To me, this is a perfect test.  God says He made it in 6 days 6000 years ago by speaking it into being.....man says it exploded into existence and developed over 4 billion years.   Who are you going to believe.

This is really only a problem if you can't think outside the box you are trying to put God In.

But God....can do anything....even causing those  who are "professing to be wise, (to) become fools" Romans 1:22

 

The earth is billions of years old and it was'nt created that way(old) It was created perfect,but He destroyed it after the rebellion of satan...satan was,nt created evil,he became that way......

Try the below study

http://biblestudysite.com/begin.htm

Don't want to debate just dropping some knowledge,believe what you will...........

That's ok we get a lot of garbage like this  ... What everyone does not understand is that God brought creation in subject to Himself not subjecting
Himself to it... Thus it began when it began with everything as He wished it to be for the presentation to Adam   anything else and you have
God in subjection to the creation and that is wrong thinking!  Love, Steven

[archaeologist55]

#1. just so you know we dealt with the issue of starlight in our 2nd issue science and the church

#2. a word of advice, do not go to secular science for your support. remember secular science is led by unbelievers who are deceived, their ideas of what pertains to evidence are far off the mark.

#3. then remember there is nothing recorded anywhere by any real authority that state that dust on the moon, starlight etc., are the right indicators to use to determine the age of the earth or universe.

#4. there is no biblical command to seek the age of the earth or universe. the focal point of Genesis 1 is God and what he did by speaking.

[ezekiel]

As I look at the book of Revelations and see things like stars falling, possible asteroids, meteor, sun going dark, then I read this.

Matthew 24 v21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

  I have to wonder is this how God created Earth by crashing planets and such to bring it to pass. Then I read in the book of Ezekiel then I see these things are true to me also.

Ezekiel 16

Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

² Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,

³ And say, Thus saith the Lord God unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.

⁴ And as for thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple thee; thou wast not salted at all, nor swaddled at all.

⁵ None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born.

⁶ And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.

⁷ I have caused thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou hast increased and waxen great, and thou art come to excellent ornaments: thy breasts are fashioned, and thine hair is grown, whereas thou wast naked and bare.

⁸ Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord God, and thou becamest mine.

In the past what I understood I now differ a little. My picture of Adam and Eve has varied some what. Creation of Earth has changed a little. But I will try to understand as much as can and study when possible.

 

 

[FresnoJoe]

5 hours ago, ezekiel said:

As I look at the book of Revelations and see things like stars falling, possible asteroids, meteor, sun going dark, then I read this.

Matthew 24 v21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

  I have to wonder is this how God created Earth by crashing planets and such to bring it to pass. Then I read in the book of Ezekiel then I see these things are true to me also.

As I Look At The Big Book Of Beginnings

Heaven and earth and everything in them were finished. By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing. On the seventh day he stopped the work he had been doing. Then God blessed the seventh day and set it apart as holy, because on that day he stopped all his work of creation.

This is the account of heaven and earth when they were created, at the time when the LORD God made earth and heaven. Genesis 2:1-4 (GOD'S WORD® Translation)

And See All The Stars, Sun, Moon And Stuff That Were Created

And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day. Genesis 1:14-19 (English Standard Version)

On The Fourth Day, The Fourth Day After Day One And The Creation Of The Earth

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.”

And evening passed and morning came, marking the first day. Genesis 1:1-5 (New Living Translation)

I Have Zero Doubt That The Almighty LORD Jesus Knew

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9 (King James Version)

Yet Scientism Still Makes A Great Noise

The entirety of Your word is truth, and all Your righteous judgments endure forever. Psalms 119:160 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

And Remains

Hear the word of the LORD, you Israelites, because the LORD has a charge to bring against you who live in the land: "There is no faithfulness, no love, no acknowledgment of God in the land. Hosea 4:1 (New International Version)

Clueless