When Christ returns to the Mount of Olives.

[Sister]

The nations –  the earth.` the nations ……shall walk in its light, (New Jerusalem)` (Rev. 21: 24)

  Yes, this is speaking of the Millennium.

 

 

Israel – as the `sand of the sea,`  the predominant place of rulership on the earth.

`And your (David) house & your kingdom shall endure before Me forever; your throne shall be established forever. ` (2 Sam. 7: 16)

 

Israel - as the `stars of the heavens,` a prominent place in the heavens. The righteous people of the OT, ` looked for a city which has foundations, whose builder & maker is God.` (Heb. 11: 10)

 

The Body of Christ – rulership in the third heaven - the predominant place in the heavens.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne…` (Rev. 3: 21)

`For our citizenship is in heaven…` (Phil. 3: 20)

`Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling,…` (Heb. 3: 1) 

 

 Sorry Marilyn

You are losing me now, I don't know where you are going with all this, looks like we are going to far ahead.  It just gets too confusing.  You can be blunt with me and get straight to the point.  What is it exactly you don't agree on that I have stated?  If we are to sort something out, it's best to go straight to that scripture and we can take a look at it instead of going all over the place, or the point gets lost, and I had to stop and think back what the subject is about again.

So please paste the scripture in question, and show me where I went wrong. 

Thanks Sister.

 

 

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, Marilyn C. 

 

Hi Sister,

 

Here are some of my thoughts on your comments.

 

1. The Lord has a glorified body of flesh & bones. (You thought we were just spirit.)

    

   ` Behold my hands & my feet, that it is I myself. Handle me & see, for a spirit does not have flesh & bones as you see I have.` (Luke 24: 39)

    

   We also will have a body like unto His.

    

   `For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body….` (Phil. 3: 20 & 21)

    

2. The different groups – the Body of Christ, Israel & the nations, all have a specific place & responsibility in God`s great kingdom. (You thought they are all united together in one spot.)

    

   The nations –  the earth.` the nations ……shall walk in its light, (New Jerusalem)` (Rev. 21: 24)

    

   Israel – as the `sand of the sea,`  the predominant place of rulership on the earth.

   `And your (David) house & your kingdom shall endure before Me forever; your throne shall be established forever. ` (2 Sam. 7: 16)

    

   Israel - as the `stars of the heavens,` a prominent place in the heavens. The righteous people of the OT, ` looked for a city which has foundations, whose builder & maker is God.` (Heb. 11: 10)

    

   The Body of Christ – rulership in the third heaven - the predominant place in the heavens.

   `To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne…` (Rev. 3: 21)

   `For our citizenship is in heaven…` (Phil. 3: 20)

   `Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling,…` (Heb. 3: 1) 

You were exactly right on your first point! VERY GOOD! Couldn’t have said it better myself!

Point 2 has a few ... “problems?” Actually, while you are right in what you quoted and used good Scripture content for support, it’s the definitions and the interpretation of those verses based on those definitions that is somewhat ... lacking.

First, when the phrase “as the ’stars of the heavens’” was used, it was in Genesis 15:1-6 in the Abrahamic Covenant: 

Genesis 15:1-6
1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
2 And Abram said, LORD God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.
4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
KJV

It’s a simple analogy, “if you can count the number of stars in the sky, then you’ll be able to count the number of seed (progeny/children and grandchildren) you shall have.” It does NOT imply that they will be IN the sky or IN the heavens!

Avraham (Abraham) DID look for 

On the other hand, since the New Jerusalem extends upward 1,500 MILES, it extends BEYOND the atmosphere even when sitting upon the New Earth! And, since the whole New Jerusalem will be for the Kingdom of the Messiah, the Israel over which David and Shlomoh ruled, they shall also be part of that Kingdom and shall be able to go into the skies and “among the stars” in outer space as they ascend to other levels of the city! So, in a SENSE, you are “correct.” (Isn’t this fun? LOL!)

Furthermore, WHEN is the “third heaven” or the “third sky” coming? It doesn’t come until AFTER the Fire and the Great White Throne Judgment, the "NEW sky" of Revelation 21:1! And, where does the “throne of God and of the Lamb” exist? It’s in the PINNACLE - the CAPSTONE - of the New Jerusalem! So, again, in a SENSE, you are “correct!"

It also means that our citizenship - our community (Greek: politeuma) - IS in the “sky!”

“Partakers of the heavenly calling,” “kleeseoos epouraniou metachoi” in Greek, means “participants of the invitation to above-the-sky,” and again, is talking about our invitation to the New Jerusalem, which, even when landed, will extend into space above the atmosphere!

The modern concept of the “church” being “the body of Christ,” as an entity foreign to and different from the “nations” and “Israel,” is a STRANGE concept not truly found in the Scriptures. While the “church” does not replace the national children of Israel in the nation called “Israel,” it IS grafted into that nation and becomes a significant portion of that nation’s leadership! Remember Ephesians 2:

Ephesians 2:11-22
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ (without a Messiah), being aliens from the commonwealth (the citizenship) of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus (in the Messiah Yeshua`) ye who sometimes were far off (far away) are made nigh (near; close) by the blood of Christ (the Messiah).
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain (two) one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off (Ephesian Gentiles), and to them that were nigh (close) (the children of Israel).
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints (the holy ones of Israel), and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
KJV

And, Romans 11:

Romans 11:11-29
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (That is, God doesn’t renege upon His gifts and calling!)
KJV

Thus, we who believe that Yeshua` (Jesus) is the Messiah (the Christ) of God, who are Gentiles, are grafted in as “branches ... grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, ... THEIR OWN olive tree!” That is, the Israel’s children’s "olive tree!"

What good would it do to have EVERY CHRISTIAN become a “king?” Over whom would they reign? As you quoted it, the one who "OVERCOMES” is the one to whom the Messiah will grant the privilege to sit with Him upon His and His Father’s dais! The others who do NOT overcome are not given that standing, but that’s okay! Not everyone can win! If everyone could win, what value would there be in the privilege?

The concept of the “body of Christ” is found in 1 Corinthians 12 and refers to the interaction of the members of a local church with each other. 

 

[n2thelight]

Hi n2thelight,

Great to hear from you. I`m fine thank you. Looking forward to your comments bro. Take your time as I see you are at work. No hurry.

 

Marilyn.

Hello again

Okay here's how I see it.....

I'll start at the beginning,as most see it(mine is millions of years before)(another story on that)

First Adam and Eve were not the first people on earth,and all did not come from them....For the sake of how Im trying to explain this,I'll call them,the first of Israel....Those who were created before,are the Ethnos,you call them gentiles,ie all the different races we have today...

Heck,I gota go back to that story,millions of years ago

Not debating,and no private thoughts,but as how I see the Word....

As per Job, God created all souls at the same time(millions of years ago)We were all happy,and that included Lucifer..That is also when He created the earth,and we all lived here,with the same governmental structure perse,as we have today....

Lucifer was in charge,ie,he had a great position,which Im sure he earned,as he was right beside the mercy seat....As I said we were here(on earth)however we were not in flesh,rather as we were originally created,the animals were in flesh,ie the dino's,etc....

At some point satan was filled with pride,and he wanted to be God,in other words he,tried  a coup,in which he persuaded a 3rd of God's childeren us included to follow him,of course he failed....

However,now God had a delima,what to do with those who followed satan...He could have destroyed satan along with those who followed him,at that time,imagine if you have kids,how hard that would be...

Instead He came up with a plan,which required us to be born of woman,ie,flesh,with no rememberance of that time,this is how He could say,I knew you before you were born,and also why He hated Easu...

 

Im trying to keep this simple,but more thoughts keep popping in my head ,and Im really gonna get to the Ethnos =)......

 

He destroyed,the first earth age,all souls went back to heaven......

Then He created man,male and female of all the races.....Then He formed Adam,and gave him Eve,through this,bloodline to bloodline Christ would come,this is why satan tried to destroy theis seed,to prevent Christ from being born,as he knew this would mean his destruction...

 

Now to the subject(Ethnos)

The Word of God is a story about Christ in His line,from Eve to Mary,and all that came in contact(Ethnos)So it's about Israel,perse,and all others,(races)The Ethnos are all the other races,which most call Gentiles,but the corerect phrase would be those of the Ethnos,who will have kings and queens over them....

 

Did'nt provide any scriptures,but I can if you have a question on what I just posted.......

 

 

 

 

[Montana Marv]

 

n2thelight

Total rubbish, No Scriptural basis for what you believe.

Sounds a lot like Mormonism, to some degree.  What glasses did you look through to get to what you believe.  Mormons go to paradise and make spiritual babies and plant them on other worlds.  Is that what happened to this earth.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi n2thelight,

It seems you have a different `bible` from me & thus we cannot understand each other.

`Not debating,and no private thoughts

,but as how I see the Word....Im trying to keep this simple,but

more thoughts

keep popping in my head.[/quote]

Can you see how you are contradicting yourself?

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Retrobyter,

Thank you for the encouragement of a good response - point 1.

Now point 2 referring to Israel in 2 parts - as the sand of the seashore, & as the stars of heaven. Yes we read that God is referring to their number, as in so many they couldn`t count, yet God is specific & we realise that the stars are a prominent feature in the heavens but not predominant. Then we realise that many OT people looked for a city (the new Jerusalem) built by God which would play a prominent part in God`s governing over the earth.

The sand aspect also, as you said refers to a great uncountable number, yet also brings out the feature of the predominant aspect. The earthly part of the nation of Israel will be the predominant ruler over the nations of the world as promised.

 

As to you comments on the Body of Christ, I will wait till I do a thread specifically on that topic & hope we can discuss there.

 

Marilyn.

[MorningGlory]

Hi n2thelight,

Great to hear from you. I`m fine thank you. Looking forward to your comments bro. Take your time as I see you are at work. No hurry.

 

Marilyn.

Hello again

Okay here's how I see it.....

I'll start at the beginning,as most see it(mine is millions of years before)(another story on that)

First Adam and Eve were not the first people on earth,and all did not come from them....For the sake of how Im trying to explain this,I'll call them,the first of Israel....Those who were created before,are the Ethnos,you call them gentiles,ie all the different races we have today...

Heck,I gota go back to that story,millions of years ago

Not debating,and no private thoughts,but as how I see the Word....

As per Job, God created all souls at the same time(millions of years ago)We were all happy,and that included Lucifer..That is also when He created the earth,and we all lived here,with the same governmental structure perse,as we have today....

Lucifer was in charge,ie,he had a great position,which Im sure he earned,as he was right beside the mercy seat....As I said we were here(on earth)however we were not in flesh,rather as we were originally created,the animals were in flesh,ie the dino's,etc....

At some point satan was filled with pride,and he wanted to be God,in other words he,tried  a coup,in which he persuaded a 3rd of God's childeren us included to follow him,of course he failed....

However,now God had a delima,what to do with those who followed satan...He could have destroyed satan along with those who followed him,at that time,imagine if you have kids,how hard that would be...

Instead He came up with a plan,which required us to be born of woman,ie,flesh,with no rememberance of that time,this is how He could say,I knew you before you were born,and also why He hated Easu...

 

Im trying to keep this simple,but more thoughts keep popping in my head ,and Im really gonna get to the Ethnos =)......

 

He destroyed,the first earth age,all souls went back to heaven......

Then He created man,male and female of all the races.....Then He formed Adam,and gave him Eve,through this,bloodline to bloodline Christ would come,this is why satan tried to destroy theis seed,to prevent Christ from being born,as he knew this would mean his destruction...

 

Now to the subject(Ethnos)

The Word of God is a story about Christ in His line,from Eve to Mary,and all that came in contact(Ethnos)So it's about Israel,perse,and all others,(races)The Ethnos are all the other races,which most call Gentiles,but the corerect phrase would be those of the Ethnos,who will have kings and queens over them....

 

Did'nt provide any scriptures,but I can if you have a question on what I just posted.......

 

 

 

 

This is so unscriptural that I can't believe you would post it on a Christian forum.  Get a Bible, read what it actually says and stop trying to rewrite it to suit yourself. You are speaking against God by spouting this heresy. I pray that your eyes be opened to the Truth, N. 

[Marilyn C]

Good prayer there, MorningGlory.  I thought so too.

Marilyn.

[n2thelight]

 

n2thelight

Total rubbish, No Scriptural basis for what you believe.

Sounds a lot like Mormonism, to some degree.  What glasses did you look through to get to what you believe.  Mormons go to paradise and make spiritual babies and plant them on other worlds.  Is that what happened to this earth.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

I stand where I am,as do you....I know what Mormans teach,and that's not what Im saying  If you can't see it I really don't care

God hated Easu before he was born,why?You and people like you prefer to say its because God know's everything,I look at it as He really knew and knows us....On a personal level not because He knows everything.....

We don't go create spiritual babies,we are already spiritual,as we were created....Where was Christ before He was born of woman?Same thing....

[n2thelight]

Hi n2thelight,

Great to hear from you. I`m fine thank you. Looking forward to your comments bro. Take your time as I see you are at work. No hurry.

 

Marilyn.

Hello again

Okay here's how I see it.....

I'll start at the beginning,as most see it(mine is millions of years before)(another story on that)

First Adam and Eve were not the first people on earth,and all did not come from them....For the sake of how Im trying to explain this,I'll call them,the first of Israel....Those who were created before,are the Ethnos,you call them gentiles,ie all the different races we have today...

Heck,I gota go back to that story,millions of years ago

Not debating,and no private thoughts,but as how I see the Word....

As per Job, God created all souls at the same time(millions of years ago)We were all happy,and that included Lucifer..That is also when He created the earth,and we all lived here,with the same governmental structure perse,as we have today....

Lucifer was in charge,ie,he had a great position,which Im sure he earned,as he was right beside the mercy seat....As I said we were here(on earth)however we were not in flesh,rather as we were originally created,the animals were in flesh,ie the dino's,etc....

At some point satan was filled with pride,and he wanted to be God,in other words he,tried  a coup,in which he persuaded a 3rd of God's childeren us included to follow him,of course he failed....

However,now God had a delima,what to do with those who followed satan...He could have destroyed satan along with those who followed him,at that time,imagine if you have kids,how hard that would be...

Instead He came up with a plan,which required us to be born of woman,ie,flesh,with no rememberance of that time,this is how He could say,I knew you before you were born,and also why He hated Easu...

 

Im trying to keep this simple,but more thoughts keep popping in my head ,and Im really gonna get to the Ethnos =)......

 

He destroyed,the first earth age,all souls went back to heaven......

Then He created man,male and female of all the races.....Then He formed Adam,and gave him Eve,through this,bloodline to bloodline Christ would come,this is why satan tried to destroy theis seed,to prevent Christ from being born,as he knew this would mean his destruction...

 

Now to the subject(Ethnos)

The Word of God is a story about Christ in His line,from Eve to Mary,and all that came in contact(Ethnos)So it's about Israel,perse,and all others,(races)The Ethnos are all the other races,which most call Gentiles,but the corerect phrase would be those of the Ethnos,who will have kings and queens over them....

 

Did'nt provide any scriptures,but I can if you have a question on what I just posted.......

 

 

 

 

This is so unscriptural that I can't believe you would post it on a Christian forum.  Get a Bible, read what it actually says and stop trying to rewrite it to suit yourself. You are speaking against God by spouting this heresy. I pray that your eyes be opened to the Truth, N. 

Like I told Mariyln...I'd provide scripture,and like I told Marv,your thoughts of what I believe,don't matter to me...I alone will stand before God!!!!!!Open your own eye's,Im good.........