Third temple: mere possibility or concrete reality?

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, inchrist. 

Shabbat shalom, inchrist

...

Nice try. I suppose your expected answer would be “a Christian,” but any Jew who believes that Yeshua` is their Messiah is a completed Jew! That is, the rites and practices and heritage take on new meaning as they find their fulfillment and explanation through the identification of the Messiah. Any Gentile who believes in the Messiah is a MIRACLE, given today’s assessment of what "Christ” means! Any Gentile who believes in the Messiah is proof positive that one doesn’t have to know how it is accomplished for one to be born again

Irrespective it's still a christian, since you having difficulty with callings Jews who believe in Jesus “Christians," who by the way, founded the very faith to begin with, a christianized jew which according to you is nonsense, let me rephrase it for you, a bible believing Jew or a NT believing Jew....still Christianized. I'm sorry is there an identity loss when one believes in Jesus, so if a Jew is christian he is no longer a jew? I mean really.

I tire of this nonsense, but you need to understand the DEPTH of the repulsion Jews feel to being identified as “Christian!” After two millennia of being called “Christ-killers” and suffering at the hands of “Christians” through the Inquisitions, the Pogroms, the Purges, the persecutions, the evictions, and even the Holocaust, they not only have a fear of those who call themselves “Christian,” but they have a hatred for it that comes out in ostracizing friends and loved ones who make any move to become “Christians!” Thus, family members are SHUNNED when they become “Christians!” Some Jews, particularly the Orthodox Jews, will even hold a FUNERAL for the “convert!” But, their only “sin” is in recognizing that Yeshua` (Jesus) is the Messiah that they are anticipating!

Now, you also need to understand that “Christians" are NOT those who “founded the very faith to begin with!” The original believers were known as “the Called” and the faith to which they adhered was known as “the Way.” It wasn’t until some time later in Antioch that they were called “Christians,” which is a diminutive of “christs,” used as a DEROGATORY TERM against them! Thus, they were called “little christs!"

However, even before “the Called,” there were honorable men and women in the nation of Israel who were ready to accept Yeshua` Natsariy as their Messiah and King, the Messiah of God, also known as "the Son of David!” 

But anyways with your theory the bible believing jews,  NT belieiving jews erect Ezekiels temple.

Sorry, but that’s not right. It’s not the “NT believing Jews” who will erect Ezekiel’s Temple. It is the Messiah Himself that will erect that Temple. However, before that happens, it is likely that the Zionist Jews will erect a Temple BEFORE Ezekiel’s Temple, and it is from THAT Temple that they will welcome the coming of the Messiah.

Now these bible believing jews, NT Jews also conduct offerings and in particular which we are going to focus on is sin offerings for reconciliation. Yes I am also well aware of other offerings but we are going to focus on sin offerings as it's a requirement under Ezekiel's temple

Ezekiel 43:21

You are to take the bull for the sin offering and burn it in the designated part of the temple area outside the sanctuary.

According to you this is going to make a lovely cook out.

Look, it’s easy enough to verify. Simply go to Judaism 101: Qorbanot: Sacrifices and Offerings @ jewfaq.org. Here’s an excerpt from the site by Tracey R. Rich (kohanim, by the way, means “priests”):

Types of Qorbanot

 There are many different types of qorbanot, and the laws related to them are detailed and complicated. This section will merely introduce some of the major types of qorbanot, their names and their characteristics. There are many subtypes within these classifications, and some other types that do not fit neatly into these categories.

Olah: Burnt Offering

Perhaps the best-known class of offerings is the burnt offering. It was the oldest and commonest sacrifice, and represented submission to G-d's will. The Hebrew word for burnt offering is olah, from the root Ayin-Lamed-Hei, meaning ascension. It is the same root as the word aliyah, which is used to describe moving to Israel or ascending to the podium to say a blessing over the Torah. An olah is completely burnt on the outer altar; no part of it is eaten by anyone. Because the offering represents complete submission to G-d's will, the entire offering is given to G-d (i.e., it cannot be used after it is burnt). It expresses a desire to commune with G-d, and expiates sins incidentally in the process (because how can you commune with G-d if you are tainted with sins?). An olah could be made from cattle, sheep, goats, or even birds, depending on the offerer's means.

 Zebach Sh'lamim: Peace Offering

A peace offering is an offering expressing thanks or gratitude to G-d for His bounties and mercies. The Hebrew term for this type of offering is zebach sh'lamim (or sometimes just sh'lamim), which is related to the word shalom, meaning "peace" or "whole." A representative portion of the offering is burnt on the altar, a portion is given to the kohanim, and the rest is eaten by the offerer and his family; thus, everyone gets a part of this offering. This category of offerings includes thanksgiving-offerings (in Hebrew, Todah, which was obligatory for survivors of life-threatening crises), free will-offerings, and offerings made after fulfillment of a vow. Note that this class of offerings has nothing to do with sin; in fact, the Talmud states that in the age of the messiah (when there is no more sin), this will be the only class of offering that is brought to the Temple.

 Chatat: Sin Offering

A sin offering is an offering to atone for and purge a sin. It is an expression of sorrow for the error and a desire to be reconciled with G-d. The Hebrew term for this type of offering is chatat, from the word chayt, meaning "missing the mark." A chatat could only be offered for unintentional sins committed through carelessness, not for intentional, malicious sins. The size of the offering varied according to the nature of the sin and the financial means of the sinner. Some chatatot are individual and some are communal. Communal offerings represent the interdependence of the community, and the fact that we are all responsible for each others' sins. A few special chatatot could not be eaten, but for the most part, for the average person's personal sin, the chatat was eaten by the kohanim. 

Asham: Guilt Offering

A guilt offering is an offering to atone for sins of stealing things from the altar, for when you are not sure whether you have committed a sin or what sin you have committed, or for breach of trust. The Hebrew word for a guilt offering is asham. When there was doubt as to whether a person committed a sin, the person would make an asham, rather than a chatat, because bringing a chatat would constitute admission of the sin, and the person would have to be punished for it. If a person brought an asham and later discovered that he had in fact committed the sin, he would have to bring a chatat at that time. An asham was eaten by the kohanim.

Minchah: Food and Drink Offerings

A meal offering (minchah) represented the devotion of the fruits of man's work to G-d, because it was not a natural product, but something created through man's effort. A representative piece of the offering was burnt on the fire of the altar, but the rest was eaten by the kohanim. 

There are also offerings of undiluted wine, referred to as nesekh.

So, YES, the sacrifices were eaten primarily by the kohanim. Some of what they could eat had to be boiled (“seethed”) in a "flesh pot” and removed by a three-pronged hook, and some had to be roasted in the fire. The food and drink offerings also includes the first fruits of the Land - vegetables and fruits - and the nesekh was fresh grape juice with no additional water added.

Even the “shewbread” - bread put on display in the Tabernacle’s Holy Place - was to be eaten by the kohanim. And, by the way, anyone with a last name like “Cohen,” “Kohen,” “Khan,” or “Cohn” probably is a descendant of the priestly tribe of Leviy (as, of course, anyone with the last name of “Levi” or “Levy” is).

In order, according to Ezekiel to make reconciliation. 

Ezekiel 45:17 (KJV) - And it shall be the prince’s part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Do you see that word reconciliation? Now, I'm actually wondering if you have studied Hebrews 10 at all?

18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

And Hebrews 2:17

make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

This does not fit with your theory, why does Ezekiel command sin offerings for reconciliation in Ezekiel's temple and Jesus states the complete opposite he is the reconciliation for sins of the people? You have a glaring contradiction. 

No contradiction at all. In Hebrews 10, we do indeed see that sacrifice for sin is finished in the finished work of the sacrifice of the Messiah’s body; HOWEVER, the sacrifices made after that are not made for the sins of the people! The Temple was in existence when Yeshua` was crucified; indeed, He IS our Keves Pesach, our Passover Lamb! This probably occurred in 28 A.D. The Temple was not destroyed until 70 A.D. For those 40+ years, the priests still went through the motions of sacrifice, even though it had no more efficacy! What makes a “slaughtering” an “acceptable sacrifice?” It’s GOD’S RECEPTION of that slaughtering as a sacrifice that makes it an “acceptable sacrifice."

There’s even a legend about the scarlet thread that was tied upon the sacrifice that would turn white after God accepted the sacrifice. That scarlet thread  no longer turned white after the death of the Messiah! This indicated that God was no longer accepting the animal sacrifice after the Ultimate Sacrifice for Sins was made. I get that! HOWEVER, you also need to understand that (1) not all sacrifices were made for sin, and (2) sacrifices, as any slaughtering of animals, were to be eaten by the priests and occasionally by the ones giving the sacrifices.

Further Paul was then highly mistaken when he declared in 1 Corinthians 5:7, that "Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us"?

Why should it be supposed to be necessary, by the restoration of sacrifices, to establish the will of God if that has already been done by Jesus "once for all"? Now and in the millennium? 

Please I dare you to tell me that it's meant to be a memorial or remembrance. 

 

 

“Baruwkh haba’ b-shem YHWH,” and they mean “Welcome, Comer-in-the-authority-of YHWH.” Yes, that is the Messiah, the “Christ,” but the point is that they will WELCOME HIM! AND, they must so welcome Him OUT OF THE TEMPLE!

Your interpretation of Psalms is so flawed, I have come to the conclusion you just making things up.

I’m not “making things up”; just do your due diligence and learn a little Hebrew, will ya? After all, when the Messiah is reigning for a THOUSAND YEARS from Israel, Hebrew will be the “lingua franca” of the day! 

THAT’S WHAT THE VERSE SAYS!!! “Baruwkh haba’” are the words that mean “Welcome” and are used at the sea ports and the airports in Israel. (See the sign below.) The only difference is that the welcome signs in Israel are in the plural while Psalm 118:26 is in the singular.

Psalms 118:26

we have blessed you out of the house of the Lord; these are the words of the priests, one part of whose office it was to bless the people. There has been a metamorphosize shift because these very words are also used by Mark

Mark 11:10

Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.

 

It is the disciples of Christ, or ministers of the Gospel, who bless the people that bless the Lord and Master

 

Where's the house of the Lord? It's in the Lord's prayer. Thou Kingdom come. Blessed be the kingdom.

 

Psalm 118 has absolutely nothing to do with a so called Ezekiel's temple

 

However yes there will be a third Temple but only in the millennium and a temple which will be built and engineered by Jesus 

 

"Thus says the LORD of hosts, saying: Behold, the man whose name is the BRANCH! From his place he shall branch out, and he shall BUILD THE TEMPLE OF THE LORD; yes, he shall BUILD THE TEMPLE OF THE LORD. He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and RULE ON HIS THRONE, so he shall be a PRIEST on his throne, and the counsel of peace shall be BETWEEN THEM BOTH [God and the Messiah]" (Zechariah 6:12-13, NKJV).

Now, you’re just grasping at straws. His Kingdom is the SAME KINGDOM over which David and Shlomoh (Solomon) ruled! Psalm 118 has EVERYTHING to do with the Temple that will be erected by the Jews of today, although you are correct that it is not the same Temple as the Temple that the Tsemach (the Branch) will erect. However, you really don’t know what “bless” means. Didn’t you know that “bless” and “bliss” have the same root meaning?

And, “how`shiy`aah naa’,” transliterated into Greek as “hosanna,” means “save us, now!” (with a desperate “please” implied). Can you really stay so stubborn when you don’t even fully understand Mark 11:10?!

[Marilyn C]

This is Jerusalem`s Great Synagogue in King George`s Street, Jerusalem. In the interior, marble has been used extensively, especially for the Ark situated beneath the stained glass windows. This I believe is the Holy Place which will be desecrated by the `Abomination of Desolation` referred to by Jesus. As there is no `glory` of God as in the OT there, the people will thus be able to see the AD set up in the Holy Place,

 

Marilyn.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2015 by Marilyn C

[*Zion*]

This is Jerusalem`s Great Synagogue in King George`s Street, Jerusalem. In the interior, marble has been used extensively, especially for the Ark situated beneath the stained glass windows. This I believe is the Holy Place which will be desecrated by the `Abomination of Desolation` referred to by Jesus. As there is no `glory` of God as in the OT there, the people will thus be able to see the AD set up in the Holy Place,

 

Marilyn.

 

 

Now that is very intriguing.  I could see this as a possibility.

[*Zion*]

Back to the topic, I am starting to see it can all happen either way.  After all, our God can work in the natural as well as the supernatural, and beyond my logic and will never get it wrong.  It will be awesome to see His word unfold before our very eyes - as long as we have the discernment to know just what we're seeing

[Retrobyter]

On November 23, 2015 at 8:23:23 AM, inchrist said:

You missed the point, you claim its nonsense calling a jew believing in Christ is a Christian. Jews where called  Christians first at Antioch, secondly if it was such a derogatory term as you claim, clearly Paul didn’t think so but a term of honor.

Acts 26:28

King Agrippa said, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian." Paul answered, "I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds."

Shalom, inchrist.

Actually, YOU missed the point. Paul (Rav Sha’uwl) never said that he wished King Agrippa to be called a “Christian.” Furthermore, every Jew today finds it easier to be Jewish with purpose and reason for living when they understand that THEIR Messiah is Yeshua` haBen-David, Anointed to be King of Israel.

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And watch what Peters states:

1 Peter 4:16

Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

Peter tells us that followers of Christ should not "suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evil doer, or as a busybody in other men's matters." Such things are not according to the righteousness of Christ. In verse 14, Peter mentions being "reproached for the name of Christ. . ." which is equivalent to verse 16, "if any man suffer as a Christian."

Well, actually the verse in Greek is this:

Petrou A 4:16

16 Ei de hoos Christianos, mee aischunesthoo, doxazetoo de ton Theon en too onomati toutoo.

UBS Greek New Testament

 

And, the translation is as follows:

Ei = If

de = but

hoos = like/as

Christianos, = a-Christ-follower,

mee = not

aischunesthoo, = let-him-be-ashamed,

doxazetoo = let-him-glory/make-famous

de = but

ton = the

Theon = God

en = in/on

too = the

onomati = name/authority

toutoo. = this-one.

 

But if like a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him make God famous in this name.

 

There’s nothing about “suffering as a Christian" in this verse.

 

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"Christian" is a term that was given by God to his faithful ones

You shall be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD will name" (Isaiah 62:2).

That’s not EVEN close!

Isaiah 62:1-5
62:1 For Tziyon’s sake I will not be silent,
for Yerushalayim’s sake I will not rest,
until her vindication shines out brightly
and her salvation (rescue/deliverance) like a blazing torch. 
2 The nations will see your vindication
and all kings your glory.
Then you will be called by a new name
which Adonai himself will pronounce. 
3 You will be a glorious crown in the hand of Adonai,
a royal diadem held by your God. 
4 You will no longer be spoken of as ‘Azuvah [Abandoned]
or your land be spoken of as ‘Sh’mamah [Desolate];
rather, you will be called Heftzi-Vah [My-Delight-Is-In-Her]
and your land Be‘ulah [Married].
For Adonai delights in you,
and your land will be married —
  5 as a young man marries a young woman,
your sons will marry you;
as a bridegroom rejoices over the bride,
your God will rejoice over you. 
CJB

Sorry, that “new name” for His people is not “Christian” but “Cheftziy-Vaah!"

Chefetz = Delight
-iy = my
[is]
V- = in
-aah = her

Make sure you READ FIRST!

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Since Peter and Paul use the word "Christian" to denote the disciples of Christ, your assertion is contradicted when you claim its nonsense to call a Jew who believes in Christ a Christian.

Nope. It’s NOT nonsense because a “Christian” is NOT synonymous with a "born-again believer," believing that Yeshua` is the Messiah, especially after 2000 years of pathetic and disgusting so-called “Christian” behavior! Even now, with your insensitivity and your prejudice showing, your claim that a Jew must be called a “Christian” if he or she believes that Yeshua` is the Messiah, is narrow-minded and frankly WRONG! He or she is a "Messianic Jew."

I’m sorry if you can’t understand that, but it’s true nonetheless.

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 Ezekiel specifically stated to these offerings are to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Jesus specifically stated that HE was the reconciliation for the sins of the people. Hebrews 2:17

How can you claim no contradiction? 

I can make that claim because you haven’t checked the original languages and you’re trusting in your belief that you can use the English translations from two different words in two different languages and equate them as though they were the same! THAT'S WRONG! Just because they were both translated into English (in one particular version) as “reconciliation,” that doesn’t mean that they are the same concept! It’s as wrong as saying that “love” in 2 Samuel 13:15 is the same as “love” in John 3:16! Unless you can find a verse in the OT that was quoted in the NT to give you some honest comparison between the two languages, you’re grasping at straws! You’re trusting in your luck, and that’s trust misplaced. Here are the two words, according to Strongs:

OT:3722 kaafar (kaw-far'); a primitive root; to cover (specifically with bitumen); figuratively, to expiate or condone, to placate or cancel:
KJV - appease, make (an atonement, cleanse, disannul, forgive, be merciful, pacify, pardon, purge (away), put off, (make) reconcile (-liation).
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

NT:2433 hilaskomai (hil-as'-kom-ahee); middle voice from the same as NT:2436; to conciliate, i.e. (transitively) to atone for (sin), or (intransitively) be propitious:
KJV - be merciful, make reconciliation for.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

These words ARE NOT THE SAME THING! And, there are NO verses in the OT that use this word quoted in the NT ANYWHERE!

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It cannot be Millennial since it involves a complete abrogation of the New Testament teaching of the sole efficacy of the Messiah’s finished Sacrifice -- the One Atonement, perfect, and all-sufficient for all men .

Sorry, but you don’t know that! In fact, you CAN’T know that! IF they were like two different, straight lines that lie on the same plane (having the same definitions) going in two different directions, eventually they would intersect and one would have a contradiction. Each line would block the other. HOWEVER, if they are NOT on the same plane (because the definitions are different, as shown above), then they may not intersect at all but lie SKEW to each other and thus never contradict at all! All you see is your 2-D viewpoint and have yet to discover that there is a THIRD dimension! Just because you can’t understand how both could be true doesn’t mean that they aren’t both true!

It’s similar to how the Rabbis would discuss the differences between the Messiah the Son of Joseph (the Suffering and Dying Messiah) and the Messiah the Son of David (the Conquering and Reigning Messiah). How could both be true? They came to all sorts of conclusions. Some even suggested that there had to be two Messiahs! It wasn’t until Yeshua` came that the solution was seen by those who accepted Him as the Messiah. He was rejected by the Pharisees and Elders and crucified, fulfilling the Suffering and Dying Messiah. And, in the Resurrection and the Ascension and the promised Return of the Resurrected Messiah, He SHALL fulfill the prophecies of the Conquering and Reigning Messiah! They couldn’t see how He could fulfill both sets of prophecy, but He did and He shall!

If you want to talk “ridiculous,” nothing could be more ridiculous than believing God has “conditional prophecies!” THAT’S NUTS! There is SO MUCH DETAIL in the prophecy from chapters 40 thru 48! So, all of that prophecy will be thrown out because Israel doesn’t make the right choice? Isn’t He the God who “declares the end from the beginning”? If so, then why would He need “contingency plans?” Why would He waste time talking about a scenario that WOULD NEVER TAKE PLACE?! That’s NOT like God!

We see the many possibilities of our choices throughout our lifetimes, but He already KNOWS the choices that we all will make, and He has already planned for them! We see all the branches of the decision tree; He already knows the ONE branch that mankind will take from the beginning of time and into the ages! One must believe that God’s Word is true regardless! God will not let the words of His prophets, not even Ezekiel, fall to the ground! They are HIS words and HE doesn’t contradict Himself!

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Please tell me, flowing again constant streams of animal blood for the reconciliation of man with God -- what becomes of the ministry and word of reconciliation once committed to the Apostolic Ministry?

This is very much UNLIKE the glorious time foretold by the prophet Isaiah (ch. 11:6-9):

"The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox....they shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea."

First, you don’t know that there will be “constant streams of animal blood.” It may only be for the inauguration of the Temple or it may only be for the duration of the Millennium, the last 1,000 years before the Fire and the re-created New Earth! Isaiah’s prophecy of the animals being herbivorous and tranquil is primarily for the New Earth, although it is possible for His Kingdom during the Millennium, although not the entire earth at that time.

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This is laughable against your notion of Ezekiel’s temple

I would hate to point out the obvious, the reason that the Temple was left standing in Jerusalem for 40 years after our savior made the one and only true sacrifice, was to give witness to all that the animal sacrifices would never be acceptable to God.

I’ve already said as much.

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Psalm 118 has NOTHING to do with a “supposed” temple that will be erected. 

Nonsense. It has EVERYTHING to do with a Temple that will be erected. It would be kinda hard to “bless the Comer” from the House of the LORD if there wasn’t first a “House of the LORD,” a “Temple!” Furthermore, verse 27 says,

Psalm 118:27
27 God is the LORD, which hath shewed us light: bind the sacrifice with cords, even unto the horns of the altar.
KJV

It would also be kinda hard to “bind the sacrifice with cords to the horns of the altar” if there weren’t first the "altar!"

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What you don’t seem to grasp or refuse to understand, the present-day Jews DO NOT have a "divine mission" to rebuild the Temple before the return of the Messiah. The Bible makes it clear that a Third Temple will not be built until AFTER the Messiah returns.

Well, what YOU don’t seem to grasp is that the present-day Zionist Jews DON’T NEED to have a “divine mission” to rebuild the Temple! They believe they have a “DIVINE DUTY” to rebuild it! What Bible are YOU using?  ‘Cause the one I use makes it clear that there SHALL be a Third Temple BEFORE the Messiah returns because the Messiah comes back to the welcome from that Temple!

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Every attempt to build a Temple in Jerusalem since A.D. 70, when the Romans destroyed the Second Temple, has been thwarted by God. The only legitimate reason for building a Temple is to house the Shekinah Glory of God, and God will not descend to this earth until AFTER the Messiah has returned and commissioned the construction of a new Temple.

And, just what attempts might those be? Until the Jews had the Land back in 1948 it hadn’t even been contemplated, let alone attempted!

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When looking at the evidence, Luke 13:35 and contrast it with Psalms 118:26

Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! We have blessed you from the house of the Lord.

Gods glory has moved on, notice in Luke it never mentions or indicates a third temple to be rebuilt before Christ comes, the temple is gone, God will no longer hear blessings from the people at the temple.

Look at Matthew 23:39 Jesus NEVER stated the rest of PSALM 118:26 , NO indication is given by Christ that a third temple is to be rebuilt before Christ comes, infact one could say your adding to Christ words.

Look at Mark 11:10, again no mention of a third temple must be built in order for Christ return

Matthew 23:33-39
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell (Greek: tees ge-ennees = "of-the valley-of-Hinnom")?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, TILL ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV

Luke 13:32-35
32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.
34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, UNTIL the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV

Neither passage says anything about the Temple per se, but the passage that He quotes DOES! I’m adding to the Messiah’s words, eh? OR, could it be that you’re SUBTRACTING from the Messiah’s words by not looking carefully at what He is quoting! Notice the words “till” and “until?” The desolation of their house is NOT a permanent condition!
 

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Take all of that and we start looking at other weights of evidence like 2 Thessalonians 2:4

"the temple of God" is used 4 times by Paul (1 Corinthians 3:16, I Corinthians 3:17, 2 Corinthians 6:16 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4).  There is no doubt that Paul is speaking about a spiritual temple or what can be conclusively understood was Paul was not talking about the temple/heiron

Matthew 24:15: Jesus said " Holy Place/topos hagios," not "in the temple/heiron."

All of that combined with Daniel 11:45

He will pitch his royal tents between the seas at the beautiful holy mountain.

And with Daniel 11:38

But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

There is no Third temple what there will be is the Antichrist tent, his estate, his palace which he erects, which he pitches up.

There most assuredly IS a physical Temple, in fact, two - 3rd and 4th - that shall be built before and during the Millennium! Daniel 11:25- is talking about Antiochus IV Epiphanes. Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to think that prophecy must be repeated!

[Montana Marv]

Are Jewish Believers indwelt by the same Holy Spirit as we Gentiles Believers are?

1 Cor 12:13 - For we were ALL baptized by one Spirit into ONE Body - whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free; and we were ALL given one Spirit to drink.  v. 27, 28 - Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.  And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, and those having the gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

It appears that in this Body of Christ no one is given special treatment; So that there will be no division in the Body.  It appears that we are strive to have some of these gifts (whether Jew or Gentile), we are now ONE not two.  Maybe as a Swed by descendant I should still abide by the old Swedish customs as well as being a Believer.  Is this compatible?  If not, why then should a Believing Jew be forced into abiding by the old Jewish customs.  Christ has made him New.  We as Believing Jews or Gentiles in Christ Jesus are to make Israel jealous.  Israel has no Eternal King over them, yet.  We as Believers (Jew and Gentile, slave or free) have an Eternal King over us.  We have a High Priest over us.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Retrobyter]

On November 21, 2015 at 3:36:18 PM, inchrist said:

 

Please actually read Ezekiel, it is very conditional.

Describe to the house of Israel the temple and its appearance and plan, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities.  And if they are ashamed of all that they have done , portray the temple, its arrangement, its exits and its entrances, and its whole form; and make known to them all its ordinances and all its laws; and write it down in their sight, so that they may observe and perform all its laws and all its ordinances." (Ezek 43:10-11)

 

Ezekiel was to show the plans to the Jews of his generation. 

THEY were called to IMMEDIATE repentance. 

And ] if THEY repented , they were to rebuild the temple, in accordance with the plans Ezekiel was given.

I would hate to point out the obvious here but why would Ezekiel show them a temple if it was to be built 2000 + years into the future? They wanted a temple now.

Shalom, inchrist.

(I’m going to answer this one first because it’s the easiest.) Then, why did He even bother to continue with the prophecy presented in such detail? What? Did he write God’s words and they weren’t supposed to read it?! Does that even make sense?

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

Okay, I'll ask.

Have they repented ?

[Spock]

Zion,

i got on late on this thread, but I am 100% sure about this one- yes, absolutely there will be a rebuilt third temple.  Sacrifices will be instituted again and of course the abomination of desolation absolutely is a must happening. 

In fact, this will be a huge turning point for the world when the abomination occurs. 

The angel/demon released from the abyss will possess the AC, rev 17, and cause him to change faces if you will.  No more Mr. nice guy as he changes into this BEAST!  He will demand worship since he is "God now" and will implement his 666 economic plan. (Christian don't do it!) 

ive read recently the Illuminati is also very excited to take control of the Temple Mount just for this abomination to take place, so christians and Jews aren't the only ones looking for it. 

I believe the Great tribulation will commence right after the abomination and some Christians too will be martyred and persecuted for their faith (5th seal) However, I also believe the Philadelphia christians will be divinely protected from any harm after the abomination. 

It wont be long and before you know it, the 6th seal will unfold and guess who is going up and out of here? The true church of Jesus Christ. 

Shortly after the rapture (like minutes), the Day of the Lord commences ushered in by the trumpet judgments of rev 8/9. 

Any other questions my dear?  I have answers so lay them on me sister.

an enthusiastic Spock 

[WilliamL]

15 hours ago, Spock said:

i got on late on this thread, but I am 100% sure about this one- yes, absolutely there will be a rebuilt third temple.  Sacrifices will be instituted again and of course the abomination of desolation absolutely is a must happening. 

I wouldn't count on this Spock. Again, you may get caught looking past the mark.

Nothing in "the time of the end" passage of Daniel 11:40-12:13 speaks of a Temple, let alone the building of one. An "abomination of desolation," certainly (12:11). But no Temple is mentioned, neither sacrifice, although some poor translations add in the word. But the Hebrew does not have it.

But I've already covered these things more fully in previous posts.