Third temple: mere possibility or concrete reality?

[Montana Marv]

Abraham is called a Hebrew in the Bible.  How is he not Jewish????

Zion

Abraham was the father of many nations, Israel being one of them through Issac and Jacob.  Jacob (Israel) is the father of the 12 tribes.  Hebrew (Jewish) begin with Jacob.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Ezra]

Abraham is called a Hebrew in the Bible.  How is he not Jewish????

Because there is a big difference between Hebrew and Jew.  The Hebrews were the descendants of Eber from Shem and Noah, whereas the Jews were descendants of Jacob through Abraham and Isaac.

Adam ---->Noah---->Shem----->Eber----->Abraham---->Isaac----->Jacob(Israel)---->Israel

First the Jews are called "children of Israel", then "Israelites", then the "kingdom of Judah" and the "kingdom of Israel" and then Jews (Hebrew yehudi).

[Montana Marv]

Thanks

I stand corrected with Abraham being the Hebrew.  Yet he also was a Chaldean.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Ezra]

Thanks

I stand corrected with Abraham being the Hebrew.  Yet he also was a Chaldean.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Noah's ark landed in Armenia, which is due north of Iraq (formerly Mesopotamia, which included Babylonia and Chaldea). So Noah's Semitic descendants were scattered throughout Mesopotamia before the call of Abraham, and many of them were influenced by Babylonian idolatry. Hence God's command to Abraham to move to Canaan (which was also idolatrous, but would eventually become the Promised Land). The word "Hebrew" also means the one who crosses over, so it was an apt description of Abraham.

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, inchrist. 

Shalom, all who do not believe that there will be a third Temple.

The EXISTENCE of a third Temple does not necessarily mean that God is ENDORSING that third Temple. Many times in the prophecies, information is given to us without judgment. That is, a fact may be revealed without telling us whether God is for or against that fact. It just simply exists (or rather, SHALL exist in the future when the prophecy is fulfilled). I believe that there shall be not only a third Temple, but there shall also be a FOURTH Temple.

Last Daze is simply noting that such a third Temple SHALL be built (even if it is not needed) by the Zionist Jews, attempting to fulfill prophecy on their own to hasten the coming of the Messiah.

Such a Temple SHALL exist, based on the prophetic passages that foretell its existence. (Ironic, isn’t it? Shall the prophecy be fulfilled to create the event or is the event being created to fulfill the prophecy? “Chicken or egg?” Remember: Many times the Messiah said, “Suffer such-and-such to happen for thus it becometh us to fulfill all prophecy,” like at His baptism:)

Matthew 3:13-15
13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
KJV

Now, we are also told about a Temple that the MESSIAH HIMSELF shall build in the future in Ezekiel’s prophecy. It may be that He improves or rebuilds the third Temple that the Jews are contemplating building at present, OR He may be building yet another structure based on His own specifications (those in Ezekiel), but that FOURTH Temple shall also be built. Is it needed? YES! Like it or not, the Temple IS FORETOLD IN GOD’S PROPHECY THROUGH EZEKIEL! Get over it! Is it necessary for “salvation?” No. Is it necessary for some other reason? YES!

I have to disagree with the interpretation of Ezekiel's prophecy as that was a temple that could [have] been.

If Ezekiel 40-48 is a prophecy of the Millennial Age, I'm afraid it makes void the Priesthood of the messiah - Hebrews 5 and foretells the resumption of an earthly priesthood and an endless succession of blood sacrifices for all manner of purposes and occasions, to the effect that Jesus offering himself must therefore have been a failer

 

What if it's not a Jewish temple necessarily being discussed in 2 Thessalonians 2:4? What if there are elements of what WilliamL says is true and elements of what Lastdaze speaks of is true?

Oh, no, no, no, no. Ezekiel’s prophecy has NOT failed.

1 Samuel 3:19-20
19 And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground.
20 And all Israel from Dan even to Beer-sheba knew that Samuel was established to be a prophet of the LORD.
KJV

Deuteronomy 18:18-22
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
KJV

ALL of the words of a prophet of YHWH shall NOT fail! If ANY of them do, then he was never a prophet of YHWH to begin with, and that “prophet” was to be stoned to death as a FALSE PROPHET, a LYING PROPHET! If Yechezk’el (Ezekiel) was a false prophet, then you shouldn’t trust ANYTHING he wrote and that book should be yanked out of the canon!

SO,...

If you’re going to use the book of Ezekiel at all, then the prophecy of chapters 40-48 shall be fulfilled just as written! 

You people who say that there cannot be a third Temple have this locked-in supposition that you believe the Temple somehow contributed to the “salvation” (justification) of an individual in the OT! IT HAS NEVER BEEN SO! Just take that thought out of the equation!

Once you understand the TRUE PURPOSE of the Temple, then you will understand that it shall NEVER compete with what the Messiah, the Christ, has accomplished!

Besides, 2 Thess. 2:4 is not the ONLY location that promised a Temple before our Lord Yeshua` returns!

1 Kings 8:22-54
22 And Solomon stood before the altar of the LORD in the presence of all the congregation of Israel, and spread forth his hands toward heaven:
23 And he said, LORD God of Israel, there is no God like thee, in heaven above, or on earth beneath, who keepest covenant and mercy with thy servants that walk before thee with all their heart:
24 Who hast kept with thy servant David my father that thou promisedst him: thou spakest also with thy mouth, and hast fulfilled it with thine hand, as it is this day.
25 Therefore now, LORD God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that thou promisedst him, saying, There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit on the throne of Israel; so that thy children take heed to their way, that they walk before me as thou hast walked before me.
26 And now, O God of Israel, let thy word, I pray thee, be verified, which thou spakest unto thy servant David my father.
27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?
28 Yet have thou respect unto the prayer of thy servant, and to his supplication, O LORD my God, to hearken unto the cry and to the prayer, which thy servant prayeth before thee to day:
29 That thine eyes may be open toward this house night and day, even toward the place of which thou hast said, My name shall be there: that thou mayest hearken unto the prayer which thy servant shall make toward this place.
30 And hearken thou to the supplication of thy servant, and of thy people Israel, when they shall pray toward this place: and hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place: and when thou hearest, forgive.
31 If any man trespass against his neighbour, and an oath be laid upon him to cause him to swear, and the oath come before thine altar in this house:
32 Then hear thou in heaven, and do, and judge thy servants, condemning the wicked, to bring his way upon his head; and justifying the righteous, to give him according to his righteousness.
33 When thy people Israel be smitten down before the enemy, because they have sinned against thee, and shall turn again to thee, and confess thy name, and pray, and make supplication unto thee in this house:
34 Then hear thou in heaven, and forgive the sin of thy people Israel, and bring them again unto the land which thou gavest unto their fathers.
35 When heaven is shut up, and there is no rain, because they have sinned against thee; if they pray toward this place, and confess thy name, and turn from their sin, when thou afflictest them:
36 Then hear thou in heaven, and forgive the sin of thy servants, and of thy people Israel, that thou teach them the good way wherein they should walk, and give rain upon thy land, which thou hast given to thy people for an inheritance.
37 If there be in the land famine, if there be pestilence, blasting, mildew, locust, or if there be caterpiller; if their enemy besiege them in the land of their cities; whatsoever plague, whatsoever sickness there be;
38 What prayer and supplication soever be made by any man, or by all thy people Israel, which shall know every man the plague of his own heart, and spread forth his hands toward this house:
39 Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men;)
40 That they may fear thee all the days that they live in the land which thou gavest unto our fathers.
41 Moreover concerning a stranger, that is not of thy people Israel, but cometh out of a far country for thy name's sake;
42 (For they shall hear of thy great name, and of thy strong hand, and of thy stretched out arm;) when he shall come and pray toward this house;
43 Hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and do according to all that the stranger calleth to thee for: that all people of the earth may know thy name, to fear thee, as do thy people Israel; and that they may know that this house, which I have builded, is called by thy name.
44 If thy people go out to battle against their enemy, whithersoever thou shalt send them, and shall pray unto the LORD toward the city which thou hast chosen, and toward the house that I have built for thy name:
45 Then hear thou in heaven their prayer and their supplication, and maintain their cause.
46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;
47 Yet if they shall bethink themselves in the land whither they were carried captives, and repent, and make supplication unto thee in the land of them that carried them captives, saying, We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness;
48 And so return unto thee with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, which led them away captive, and pray unto thee toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name:
49 Then hear thou their prayer and their supplication in heaven thy dwelling place, and maintain their cause,
50 And forgive thy people that have sinned against thee and all their transgressions wherein they have transgressed against thee, and give them compassion before them who carried them captive, that they may have compassion on them:
51 For they be thy people, and thine inheritance, which thou broughtest forth out of Egypt, from the midst of the furnace of iron:
52 That thine eyes may be open unto the supplication of thy servant, and unto the supplication of thy people Israel, to hearken unto them in all that they call for unto thee.
53 For thou didst separate them from among all the people of the earth, to be thine inheritance, as thou spakest by the hand of Moses thy servant, when thou broughtest our fathers out of Egypt, O LORD God.
54 And it was so, that when Solomon had made an end of praying all this prayer and supplication unto the Lord, he arose from before the altar of the LORD, from kneeling on his knees with his hands spread up to heaven.
KJV

Psalm 23:1-6
1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

KJV

Psalm 118:19-29
19 Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, and I will praise the LORD:
20 This gate of the LORD, into which the righteous shall enter.
21 I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation.
22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone (capstone) of the corner (angle).
23 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now (Hebrew: Howshiy`aah naa’ = Greek: Hosanna), I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.
27 God is the LORD, which hath shewed us light: bind the sacrifice with cords, even unto the horns of the altar.
28 Thou art my God, and I will praise thee: thou art my God, I will exalt thee.
29 O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.
KJV

And, it was this last passage, particularly verse 26, that YESHUA` HIMSELF quoted in Matthew 23:39:

Matthew 23:37-39
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV

These are HIS words, and HE said that the inhabitants of Yerushalayim (Jerusalem) wouldn’t see Him again until they could fulfill that prophecy! And, they cannot do that until they have a third Temple built!

[Ezra]

Ezekiel's temple was conditional

Not according to Ezekiel, and not according to the rest of the OT.  Please study the prophecy of Ezekiel before you go any further.  While we may not fully understand how this Temple functions under the New Covenant, there is nothing conditional about it. And there are many things which God will only reveal at the appropriate time. Our responsibility is to accept Scripture as it is written, and avoid delving into matters beyond our understanding. "Eye hath not see, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him" (1 Cor 2:9).

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, WilliamL. 

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Let me more fully explain why I stand so strongly against the doctrine that says there must be a 3rd Temple built before the Abomination of Desolation can take place. Jesus told us in Matt. 24:15-16,

“When you see the abomination of desolation...then let those who are in Judea flee...” This time of flight to escape is also prophesied in Dan. 12:1 and Rev. 12:6ff., and refers to a flight of God's people besides those just in Judea.

People who have been taught to believe that a Temple must be built first, before they will ever need to escape, will be caught with their pants down if in fact the AD is set up on the “Holy Place” before any Temple is built. And those who have taught them to believe that the Temple is a necessity will be culpable for deceiving their brethren into a false sense of security, with its contingent undue suffering.

As a side note, remember that Jesus specifically said, “When you see the Abomination of Desolation...standing in the Holy Place.” When the Temple was standing, the Holy Place was only accessible to the priests, not the common people: they were not allowed to see into it. So strictly speaking, what Jesus said would indicate that there would not be a building over the Holy Place/miqdash at the time of the AD.

Both Luke 21:36 and Matthew 24:15-16 of Yeshua`s prophecy were already fulfilled in the first century A.D.

Only SOME of the prophecy known as the "Olivet Discourse" has yet to be fulfilled. Much of it was already fulfilled in the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem in 70 A.D. as the next great event in Jewish history and to warn and preserve a . I believe I’ve already talked about this a while back, but obviously it bears repeating. The composite of the Greek of all three accounts (Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21) translated after they are harmonized into one account follows:

But when ye see the Jerusalem being surrounded under/by armies then ye know that the desolation/destruction of it has drawn near. Therefore, ye shall see the abomination of the desolation/destruction (the one which was spoken of through/under/by Daniel the prophet) standing in a holy place where it must not be (the one who reads again, let him understand). Then those in the Judaea/Judah/Y’hudah let them flee into/upon the mountains, but the one upon the roof-top is not to come down into the house nor go inside to take something/anything out of the house of him. Also, the one who is in the field do not let him return back into the city to take the garment of him, and those in the middle of it, let them depart out, and those in the countrysides do not let them enter into it. For these are the days of avenging that all things that have been written may be accomplished. But ... OOAHEE! to the ones who are with a child in the belly and to those who nurse in those days! But pray that the flight of you may not be in winter nor on Shabbat. For then there shall be in those days great pressure, no, the like of which has not been upon a beginning of Creation which God created until now and no, nor ever shall be. Also, if those days had not been shortened, the Master having shortened them, there would not have been rescued any flesh. But, for the sake of the elect/chosen-ones, he has shortened the days. But, on account of the elect/chosen-ones, those days shall be shortened, for great distress shall be upon the earth and violent passion in this people, and they shall fall by the mouth of the sword and they shall be led away captive into all the nations and Jerusalem shall be trodden under foot by the nations until the times of the Goyim/Gentiles be fulfilled.

So, if anyone says to you, “Look! Here’s the Messiah!” or “Look! There (He is)!” Don’t you believe it! For there will arise false messiahs and false prophets and they will give great signs and miracles for the deception so as to mislead if possible even the elect/chosen-ones. However, you watch out! Look, I have forewarned you all! Therefore, if they say to you, “Look, He’s in the wilderness!” Don’t go out there! “Look, He’s in the chambers!” Don’t you believe it! For like the lightning comes forth out of the east and shines as far as the west, so also shall be the uncovering of the Son of the Man. For wherever the "vultures/buzzards" will be gathered together, that’s where the “carcass" will be!

But, in those days immediately following after the pressure of those days, there sill also be signs in the sun and moon and stars: The sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not shine its light, and the stars shall fall from the sky, and the stars shall be out of the sky fallen out of the sky, and upon the earth, national distress in confusion, roaring of the sea and its waves, and men’s hearts failing them from fear, investigating those things which are coming upon the habitable earth, and the forces which (are) in the sky shall be shaken, and THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of the Man in the sky, and THEN shall all the families of the Land shall wail and they shall see the Son of the Man coming upon the clouds of the sky, coming in clouds, coming in a cloud with great power and great brightness.

Also, He shall then send His messengers with a loud trumpeting sound and they shall gather His elect/chosen-ones together from the four winds (compass directions) from [the] extremity of the earth to the extremity of the sky to the other extremity of the sky. But, these things beginning to come to pass, look up and raise up your heads, for your redemption draws near!

The key is to look at the pronouns and pronoun identifiers. Those portions of the prophecy that were written directly to them, that is, those portions that were written to “ye” or “you” were written for them in the first century. The rest of the prophecy is primarily concerned with the Second Coming.

...

 Here's the problem that you face with using those two text to support your idea of Ezekiel's third Temple. 

 

Matthew 23:39 Means they (Israelites) will not see Christ until they convert.

That means to Christianity. 

 

Have a look now at Psalm 118:26 

Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

( converted to Christianity)

27 God is the LORD, which hath shewed us light: bind the sacrifice with cords, even unto the horns of the altar.

(Now christians offering sin sacrifices???, then clearly we Christians today have been taught wrong of Christ.)

If they are to be converted to Christianity before offering sacrifices, they would of known those sacrifices are done away with.

Clearly something else is happening in Psalms.

Psalms is David's preferment; but principally to Christ spiritualized, Christ  draws alot from psalm 118 but mentions NO sacrifices of animals in Matthew 23:39

If you wish to relate the sacrifices in Psalm 118, then it is ourselves; not to be slain upon the altar, but living sacrifices, to be bound to the altar; spiritual sacrifices of prayer and praise, in which our hearts must be engaged. 

 

Hebrews 10:4-10 

He sets aside the first to establish the second.

Hebrews 10:11-22

And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

 

Ezekiel's temple was conditional

 

“Convert to Christianity?” ARE YOU NUTS?! That’s NONSENSE! That’s not a problem I face; that’s a problem with YOUR interpretation! And, it’s a MAJOR problem at that! You don’t even know what the words mean! Do you know what “Baruwkh haba’ b-shem YHWH” MEANS?! It certainly does NOT mean to “convert to Christianity!"

You said, “(Now Christians offering sin sacrifices???, then clearly we Christians today have been taught wrong of Christ.)” You added a word that’s not there and not implied, “sin.” And, YES! You HAVE been taught wrong about the Messiah! He is GOD’S Messiah for the Children of Israel! And, those who are His out of the nations of the earth are ADOPTED by Him into the Children of Israel!

Isaiah 66:18-23
18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.
19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.
21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
KJV

Zechariah 14:8-21
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house (the Temple) shall be like the bowl's before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts (the Temple).
KJV

[WilliamL]

Shabbat shalom, WilliamL. 

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Let me more fully explain why I stand so strongly against the doctrine that says there must be a 3rd Temple built before the Abomination of Desolation can take place. Jesus told us in Matt. 24:15-16,

“When you see the abomination of desolation...then let those who are in Judea flee...” This time of flight to escape is also prophesied in Dan. 12:1 and Rev. 12:6ff., and refers to a flight of God's people besides those just in Judea. ...

As a side note, remember that Jesus specifically said, “When you see the Abomination of Desolation...standing in the Holy Place.” When the Temple was standing, the Holy Place was only accessible to the priests, not the common people: they were not allowed to see into it. So strictly speaking, what Jesus said would indicate that there would not be a building over the Holy Place/miqdash at the time of the AD.

Both Luke 21:36 and Matthew 24:15-16 of Yeshua`s prophecy were already fulfilled in the first century A.D.

Only SOME of the prophecy known as the "Olivet Discourse" has yet to be fulfilled. Much of it was already fulfilled in the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem in 70 A.D. as the next great event in Jewish history and to warn and preserve a . I believe I’ve already talked about this a while back, but obviously it bears repeating. The composite of the Greek of all three accounts (Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21) translated after they are harmonized into one account follows:

But when ye see the Jerusalem being surrounded under/by armies then ye know that the desolation/destruction of it has drawn near. Therefore, ye shall see the abomination of the desolation/destruction (the one which was spoken of through/under/by Daniel the prophet) standing in a holy place where it must not be...

The only prophecy in Daniel that speaks of an "abomination of desolation standing in the Holy Place" after the first coming of Christ is the one I cited above, Dan. 12:11 --

“And from the time that the continual is taken away, and an abomination of desolation is put/set up/placed, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days."

-- which passage comes near the conclusion of the long prophecy-segment begun in Daniel 11:40.  It begins with the words, "At the time of the end." Jesus was clearly prophesying of the End Times: there is no way Daniel 11:40 - 12:13 was fulfilled in 70 A.D., as the many as yet unfilled details of the prophecy show.

You have, upon your own authority, conjoined two passages, the one from Luke and the other from Matthew, which speak of different eras. Luke was quoting Jesus about the destruction in 70 A.D.; Matthew was quoting Jesus about the End Times.

Luke's quote of Jesus was in answer to the disciples' question about 'when one stone shall not be left upon another of the Temple.' 21:6-7

Matthew's quote of Jesus was in answer to the disciples' question about "what will be the sign of your coming, and of the End of the Age." 24:3

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, inchrist.

Ok let's try this again.

Matthew 23:39: shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV

Christ will not come until they recognise Christ is the true messiah. Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord? Who comes in the name of the Lord? Christ? What are you if you accept Christ? 

Back at ya, WHAT is the "Christ?!"

“Christ” comes from “Christos,” a translation into Greek of the Hebrew word, “Mashyiach.” Both words would translate into English as “Anointed [One]” or “Rubbed [One].” “Christos” was just transliterated into English as “Christ.” “Mashiyach” was also transliterated into the Greek as “Messias” which was then transliterated into English (in light of the Hebrew) as “Messiah.” Thus, “Christ” = “Messiah” = “Anointed [One]” or “Rubbed [One].” Some think it means more because of such passages as Matthew 16:16, Mark 14:61, Luke 4:41, John 6:69, and John 11:27. They believe that somehow being the Christ equates to being the Son of God. (It doesn’t.) Which came first, being the Christ or being the Son of God? THAT’S the rub! De we see the “eternal Sonship” in the Scriptures, OR do we see a beginning to the “Sonship?"

Psalm 2:7
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
KJV

John 1:14
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
KJV

First, one must understand that there were MANY messiahs in the Scriptures. Every high priest was “anointed” or “rubbed” for that office, as were many of the prophets and the kings, who were also the “supreme court” judges of the Land.

Therefore, there is nothing inherently special in the title “messiah” or “christ.” However, there are prophecies in Isaiah, Zechariah, Ezekiel, and others as well as the Psalms (for David, too, had the spirit of prophecy) that speak of an ULTIMATE Messiah who was considered the subject of the prophecies to David regarding David’s “seed” - his progeny and heir - who would be known as the “Son of God,” to whom God would be his Father: “I shall be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a son."

This particular “Messiah,” the “Son of God,” was declared, by God Himself, to be Yeshua` Natzartiy, whom Westerners call “Jesus of Nazareth.” HE is the One who is destined (by prophecy) to be the King of God’s Kingdom and then of the world. HE is to be the One who will rescue Israel from her enemies, and HE is the One who will save His people from their sins. And, it is through Him that Avraham’s prophecy shall be fulfilled; that is, “all families of the earth shall be blessed” through Him. All families of the earth shall be made happy or overjoyed through Him! What do people always complain about? They will often complain about the government, about money (usually, never having enough), or the weather. Yeshua` shall solve all these problems through God’s power and wisdom.

Any Jew who believes in the Messiah is what? Any Gentile who belives in the Messiah is what?

Nice try. I suppose your expected answer would be “a Christian,” but any Jew who believes that Yeshua` is their Messiah is a completed Jew! That is, the rites and practices and heritage take on new meaning as they find their fulfillment and explanation through the identification of the Messiah. Any Gentile who believes in the Messiah is a MIRACLE, given today’s assessment of what "Christ” means! Any Gentile who believes in the Messiah is proof positive that one doesn’t have to know how it is accomplished for one to be born again!

What is a Messianic jew? What is a Messianic gentile? 

A Messianic Jew is a Jew who maintains his heritage, rites, practices, dietary rules, dress, and holy days and still believes that Yeshua` is the promised Messiah of God, the One Anointed to be the King of Israel. A Messianic Gentile is a Gentile who believes the same thing about Yeshua`. Recognizing that He is not the primary recipient of the promises to national Israel, he or she is still a recipient through the grafting process of a wild oleander branch into a good olive tree; that is, he or she becomes a child of Israel through the generosity of God through His Messiah’s death, burial and resurrection. In affect, he or she becomes a child of Israel through the blood of the Messiah making him or her a Jew through the Jewish blood of the Messiah.

We [are] talking of a convertion, a convertion into what faith?

The word is “conversion.” A “conversion” is a “change in one’s beliefs.” However, a Jew doesn’t need “conversion”; what he or she has is the rich heritage with which God has blessed the children of Israel. All they need to do is come back to the God, YHWH, of their ancestors - the God of Avraham, Yitschaq, and Ya`aqov (Yisra’el)! They must understand that God DOES have a Son as was promised to King David and that this Son of God will be the future King of the Jews, King of Israel, and King of kings or World Emperor, and recognize that Yeshua` was and is that future King. “Conversion to Christianity?” Just who do you Christians think you are?!

Now you use Psalm 118:26-27 to carry on with your support but you failed to notice that they will have accepted christ and then offer sacrifices. In order to accept Christ you are what?

To “accept the Messiah” ("accept [THE] Christ” - it’s a TITLE, not a name!), one must simply recognize that he or she is a sinner without the ability to appease a holy God because of his or her sins, come humbly to that God, and ask for His forgiveness and intervention. It is only THEN that He will step in and justify the sinner, doing the otherwise impossible through the sacrifice of the Messiah. (Psalm 32:1-2; Micah 6:7-8; Isa. 1:18; Isa. 53:1-12; 2 Cor. 5:21;  and Luke 18:9-14.)

Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD

Now we already established it's Christ who comes in the name of the Lord, who accepts Christ? What religion is that?

It’s not the religion YOU think it is! The words in Hebrew that are translated “Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD” are “Baruwkh haba’ b-shem YHWH,” and they mean “Welcome, Comer-in-the-authority-of YHWH.” Yes, that is the Messiah, the “Christ,” but the point is that they will WELCOME HIM! AND, they must so welcome Him OUT OF THE TEMPLE! How is that possible without a Temple? And, the next verse proves that we are indeed talking about a physical building called the Temple, not some (falsely so-called) “spiritual” group of people! "What religion is that?” Well, it certainly would NOT be “Christianity,” especially the modern versions and denominations of “Christianity!” It’s the original worship of God through the Torah given through Mosheh (Moses) to the children of Israel over whom David and Shlomoh (Solomon) were kings. (“Torah,” by the way, doesn’t mean the “Law”; it means “INSTRUCTION!”)

27 God is the LORD, which hath shewed us light:bind the sacrifice with cords, even unto the horns of the altar.

Now you clearly highlighted in bold sacrifices in psalms to build up your claim for Ezekiel's temple which speaks of these sacrifices of sin offerings...in preparation of sin offerings  the struggling animal was bound by cords to the horns of the altar, to prevent it from escape when approached with a knife, and burst away from the hands of the priests. So yes sin sacrifices. ... why are you puzzled?

You should be worried more over the burnt offering rather than the sin offering. You would do well to do a study on the various sacrifices that were made. Not all of them were made for the putting away of sins! Furthermore, they were PICTURES that could never take away sins! They KNEW that, for every year they were reminded of their sins during Yowm Kippur, the Day of Atonement. And David’s words in Psalm 32 are very telling:

Psalm 32:1-2
1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
KJV

They were not as dependent on the Law as some might like to think! Avraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness! Mikhah (Micah) understood and said,

Micah 6:7-8
7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
KJV

And, let’s not forget Yesha`yahu’s (Isaiah’s) words:

Isaiah 1:18
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD; though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
KJV

Yes thank you I'm very familiar with Isaiah 66:18-23 and Zechariah 14:8-21, I'm afraid those are millennial scriptures and not part of Ezekiel's "sacrifices"

Here is Ezekiel's sacrifices

Ezekiel 45:17 (KJV) - And it shall be the prince’s part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Clearly does not match with Isaiah 66:18-23 and Zechariah 14:8-21

Oh, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Just who do you think is the "Prince?” You have three guesses, and the first two don’t count! Furthermore, don’t you know that most of the sacrifices in the Scriptures were to provide food for the priests?! Often it is said in the Scriptures that God loves the aroma of burning fat on the altar! God loves a good COOK-OUT!

God’s prophecies through Yechezk’el the prophet, found in chapters 40-48, are also millennial scriptures.

It’s time for Christians, closed up in their little boxes of church teachings, to come out and learn where their “religion” comes from!

Edited November 22, 2015 by Retrobyter
missed a capitalization

[Montana Marv]

It is really not that difficult;

The Church, Body of Christ, Bride of Christ, NT Bible Believing Christians, those indwelt by the Holy Spirit is/are made up of both Jew and Gentile.  We are all saved by Grace.  We are not under the law, especially the Mosaic Law.

Now Unbelieving Jews are not under Grace, they may consider themselves still under the Mosaic Law.  Now the Mosaic Law has provision for sacrifices and sin offerings.  A Temple will be needed to perform these in the future.

Present day Israel already has a priesthood ready to perform the Temple tasks.  They have been purifying a bloodline for an unblemished Red Heifer in which the blood of this sacrificed animal (out the city) will be used to purify the Temple.  All Israel needs now is the go ahead to begin building this new Temple.  Yes, animal sacrifices and sin offerings to be performed there under the Mosaic Law.

BTW, the Blood of the Lamb is only pertinent to those who accept Jesus Christ.  Meaningless/foolishness to others.

When does all Israel believe?  When they see the one who they have pierced at the Second Coming.  Their sins will be removed in a single day.  Their land will be healed.  Their inheritance will be restored.   10 men from other nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and ask if they can go with him when he goes to see the Lord and King.

In Christ

Montana Marv