And Science Says Our Gap Theory Is Bad...

[HAZARD]

10 hours ago, Butero said:

I completely disagree with everything you said.  God does know what we will do.  God did create Lucifer, fully knowing he would rebel.  God did know what Abraham would do.  You can see all kinds of examples of God's foreknowledge throughout scripture.  Look at the example of Peter.  He knew Peter would deny Jesus three times.  There is the example of a man who would become a King in the Old Testament, where God through the prophet told him all kinds of atrocities he would commit in the future.  It was prophesied exactly how Judas Iscariot would betray Jesus for 30 pieces of silver in the Old Testament, and even about the Potter's field.  God did create both good and evil.  So what if that means God is culpable?  He is God.  He can do anything he wants.  Who are we to accuse the creator of anything?  Even if we do, so what?  He doesn't have to give account to us for his actions.  I started a thread on this very topic in the Doctrinal section, and I have a huge number of examples I have yet to post.  There are so many, it is difficult to know which examples to use.  Free will is just an illusion.  We play out the part we were created to.

As for the gap theory, it is just a theory.  It cannot be proven conclusively, though I lean towards a belief in it.  This theory messes up the scientists that try to attack creationists for ignoring evidence of an old earth.  It gives a possible explanation of how the earth could be much older than 6,000 to 10,000 years old, and the creation account in Genesis still be true.  There are other possible answers as well, even if you reject the gap theory, like changes the earth went through during Noah's flood that messed up traditional methods of determining age, but this is yet another answer to Biblical critics, so I am not surprised they feel the need to attack it. 

Thing is, and what most people do not understand, or even refuse to believe is this. God does not know what FREE MORAL AGENTS, BOTH ANGELS OR HUMANS will choose to do and then carry out their choice until they actually do it.

For example; When did God know Abraham would be obedient to the fullest?

 Gen 22:12, And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him:  FOR NOW I KNOW now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

God knew Abraham would be obedient to the full when Abraham was about to sacrifice his son, not before, and it was then God could give Abraham all the promised blessings.

if God knew what was going on in Sodom, which was reported to Him, why did h not say, "O'h I know," rather than saying; 

  Gen 18:21, "I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know."

(AND IF NOT, I WILL KNOW.)

So, your saying God tells lies. For now I know means, "I knew all along?

And, "I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know." Well the Truth is, I already knew, but I will waste my time and go down anyway?

Here's another lie! Your saying God knew men would become wicked, yet He created them any way, so He could destroy them, even though it repented Him and grieved Him to His heart? That makes Him out to be a lover of pleasure and pain!!!!

IF GOD KNEW, as you believe that men would become so wicked that it grieved Him to His Heart and He repented that He made man, and that He wanted to and did destroy man, WHY DID HE CREAT MANKIND?

 Genesis 6 : 5-6, And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every1 imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6, And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7, And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

You are a fee moral agent and can believe, agree or disagree with anything or everything you like! If you believe God knew that Lucifer would rebel, and He still went ahead and created it, only to have to

destroy it and start again then your saying, God does not all ways get things right, God makes mistakes and the biggest mistake He must have made is create men knowing they would also rebel after Lucifer rebelled and The Word would have to become flesh, John 1:14, and die an agonizing horrid death so men could be saved?

Lucifer was a fallen creature when he entered Adams Eden, When did he fall, and if God knew he would fall why create him in the first place. Why didn't God just create the angels who did not sin and leave Lucifer out of it? What do you think God was trying to prove by creating a lying murdering angel? Your saying God willingly and wilfully created a MURDERER! Jesus said, Lucifer, now Satan was a liar and a murderer from the beginning !

 John 8:44, Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he

speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

If you believe this, your saying God is a liar and the author of sin sickness, disease and death and a lover of both pleasure and pain, not Satan, for God created Him so knowingly.

Scriptures say God cannot lie.

Titus 1:2, In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

[HAZARD]

Butero , I have come a long way in the past 40 years of my nearly 70 years of life. There was a time when I was a disbeliever, a sinner, one who cared nothing for the Word of God or even people who believed. You are entitled to your belief as I am. I have given many Scriptures in support of the gap principal. Most who oppose this give none except Genesis 1 : 1, which in fact supports a gap because of Genesis 1 : 2.

Genesis 1 : 1, In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Full stop!

Believing God does nothing without total planning, and all He does is perfect first go!

Genesis 1 : 2, And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.  . . . . . . . .  WHY?

If God is perfect and does everything perfectly, if God can create a free will human being out of clay, and one who is created perfect once, God never said, Adam was without form, was blind, had a broken leg, and had to start over? Then God took a rib out of him, to make a perfect woman first go, who was capable of bearing children and in so doing continued the human race, then why / how could God create the heavens and the Earth for these human beings to live in without form, and void; and in darkness, and then have to do it all again in sequence? When there are many Scriptures which clearly teach there was a rebellion in the universe which caused God to destroy the Earth and all in it, cover the Earth with water, turn of the light, which was completely different flood in which humans survived, Noah, his wife and children and their wives, all animals, birds, vegetation, the sun and moon shone through out Noahs flood, mountains were not turned upside down, the waters abated slowly?

There was a rebellion some time in the eternal distant past, God did destroy the Earth and ALL IN IT because of this rebellion, and He then re-created it some time later, approximately 6,000 years ago to make it habitable for mankind.

I believe this, if you don't, that's ok.

[Ezra]

On 21/12/2015 at 10:06 AM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Show me in Genesis on what Creation day Lucifer was created?

Since all creation was created within those six days, you can rest assured that the angels were created at that time. While Lucifer or angels are not mentioned specifically, we must infer this from the Ten Commandments.

[FresnoJoe]

15 hours ago, HAZARD said:

There was a rebellion some time in the eternal distant past, God did destroy the Earth and ALL IN IT because of this rebellion, and He then re-created it some time later, approximately 6,000 years ago to make it habitable for mankind.

I believe this, if you don't, that's ok.

The (New?) Earth

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Genesis 1:1-5

And Than Three Days Later

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. Genesis 1:14-19

Just Another Peak Into The LORD's

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Colossians 1:16-17

Creation Journal

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. Genesis 2:1-2

Love, Your Brother Joe

[other one]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

Since all creation was created within those six days, you can rest assured that the angels were created at that time. While Lucifer or angels are not mentioned specifically, we must infer this from the Ten Commandments.

Lucifer and the Angels were/are not part of creation....     They were already there when God laid the foundation.

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, other one said:

Lucifer and the Angels were/are not part of creation....     They were already there when God laid the foundation.

Since they are creatures (created spirit beings) they may have been "already there" but within the six-day span of creation. They are not eternal since they are merely creatures.

[other one]

Just now, Ezra said:

Since they are creatures (created spirit beings) they may have been "already there" but within the six-day span of creation. They are not eternal since they are merely creatures.

I don't see it that way at all.  But I am an old world thinker, so we really have little to discuss on this single subject.

[enoob57]

7 hours ago, other one said:

Lucifer and the Angels were/are not part of creation....     They were already there when God laid the foundation.

This violates this 'literal' passage
Ezekiel 28:15 (KJV)
[15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

The day reference pin points creation period...

[other one]

8 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

This violates this 'literal' passage
Ezekiel 28:15 (KJV)
[15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

The day reference pin points creation period...

you have no idea what God created before he started on the universe..   the angels don't have to be part of the six days of replenishing the earth.

[enoob57]

14 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

This violates this 'literal' passage
Ezekiel 28:15 (KJV)
[15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

The day reference pin points creation period...

 

3 minutes ago, other one said:

you have no idea what God created before he started on the universe..   the angels don't have to be part of the six days of replenishing the earth.

It indicates the frame in Ezk!