Question about praying to Saints in churches.

[SINNERSAVED]

 Exodus 20:3   Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

  Exodus 20:4   Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

  Exodus 20:5   Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me

there is only one way , and one way only , Jesus is the way the truth and the life, and no one goes to the father except it be through him,

God talks clearly about the statues and idols made by mans hand , that have mouths that don't speak , and eyes that don't see,

this is from  paganism ,brought in to the churches , which are against biblical truths, get away from this,

 Come out of her , God is telling his people . 

 

[1to3]

9 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

I don't know your Church or what the preacher said. But this is a common issue. 

In Churches that pray to saints it is very important to understand what they are doing. 

The word pray means to ask or to petition. It does NOT mean worship. "Bible" Chistians have no problem asking others to pray for them. But wait!!! I thought you pray directly to God so why do you need to ask others to pray for you!?! That is a bit contradictory.  So generally they will admit that asking others to pray for them is okay.  It's also scriptural.

It always boils down to asking the dead to pray for us. Most often the reason giving is the dead can't hear us. Well scripture says differently:

Revelation 5:8

8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints; 

the saints here are the believers on earth. So the question is how are the 24 elders offering the  prayers of those on earth IF the "dead" can't hear our prayers.

Paul talks about how we are all part of the body of Christ. So when you die do you become separated from the body and no longer are aware of the rest. OR once you die and are perfected in heaven do you become more aware of the body, which includes those on earth.

We don't know how the Saints in heaven know our prayers. But we can see in scripture many examples where God has given his creatures (man) supernatural abilities. Such as raising people from the dead. I would think that all Christians would agree that no mere man would have that ability.

So at the end of the day, do you HAVE to ask the Saints to pray for you?? No, you don't. But James tells use that the prayers of a righteous man has great power and there is no one more righteous than those in Heaven

James 5:16

16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.

 

 

 

About Paul, Paul did ask other christian followers , who were alive, to pray for him and others who are alive. To pray for someone else is joining up with and in unity with God, that the person being prayed for, be brought forth to God, in unison of our faith in God and His plan of Mercy and Grace through His only begotten Son tho intercedes and pleads our case to God. 

No dead christian can do that. Christ Jesus alone is the One able to plead our petitions to God.

1 Thessalonians 5:16-18

Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

If praying to the dead was acceptable and asked for by Christ Jesus, Christ Jesus would have mentioned it.

But Christ Jesus said that He -alone- was the way the truth and the life and Life eternal and that no one can come to the Father except through Him.

John 14:6,7

 "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. 7"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."…

Praying for the dead and asking them for guidance is unscriptural.

It cannot be found in the old or new testament.

The old testament is quite clear that trying to summon up the dead, even the holy like Samuel is not correct,

it is called an abomination.

Remember what happened to Saul? and his disobedience and his trying to summon up Samuel for help and guidance?

He could not summon up Samuel, because Samuel was with God, instead Saul, through going to the witch of Endor,( had a little prayer session with her, that is called a seance) and tried to summoned up Samuel, but instead summoned up a demon who told Saul that not only should he have not tried to summon up Samuel, but that tomorrow, he would be with him -in hell-. The next day, Saul went into battle and lost, got mortally wounded,

and even right there and then, Saul could have repented to God and asked God for forgiveness but instead in defiance, he threw himself on his sword, killing himself.

 

If praying for dead saints to intercede for us was scriptural and good and what Christ Jesus wanted from us, he would have mentioned it to the disciples and the disciples would have mentioned it in their testaments of Gods plan of mercy and grace for us.

 

But praying, conversing with God, is what we as Christians are called to do.

We are called to have a daily relationship with God, through prayer, and employing the word of God throughout our day.

We are called to pray for one another, and even with one another:

1 Thessalonians 5:25 : bothers pray for us

Acts 41:3  and when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.

Matthew 19:18

Christ Jesus said:

Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.

 

 In Matthew 6 :8-14 Christ Jesus explains to us how we should pray.

He never mentioned we were to pray to or for the dead in Christ to mediate and intercede for us.

 

 

Christians praying for the living is part and parcel of being a christian

Philippians 4:6

Do not be anxious for anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your request be made known to God.

Colossians 1:9

And so, from the day we heard, we have not ceased to pray for you, asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding,

 

 

The disciples themselves would have mentioned that we should now also pray  to lets say the disciple Stephen who got stoned/ murdered for Christ sake after Christ Jesus was crucified.

No, Holy scripture does not tell us to pray to dead saints.

Paul never asked the other disciples or other Christians to pray to the dead Stephen to make intercession for them,

no, Paul in Romans 15:30 said this :" I appeal to you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God on my behalf, "

The word of God says all christian are saints. The ones that pass-on are in the presence of the lord.

The angels, are also in the presence of the Lord, but it is clear in holy scripture that  we are not to pray or bow down to angels either.

 

Revelation 19:10

9Then he said to me, "Write, 'Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.'" And he said to me, "These are true words of God." 10Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

Revelation 22: 8,9

  I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. 9But he said to me, "Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God." 10And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.

 

 

[JTC]

This is a difficult topic. It's 1 I've been dealing with 30 yrs because most of my family were Catholics. Here is 1 thing I've observed. Even people who pray to saints get answers from God and those answers often are good things. Jesus said only good things come from God. I don't know of any Biblical evidence that the devils do good things to help people. This is especially true when it comes to healing. Jesus even went so far as to say if Satan was to heal people he'd be working against himself. Furthermore, I think God knows those prayers to saints are meant for Him. Again, God sees our hearts. If we insist those who pray to saints are pagans we're being legalistic in our thinking which Paul said was wrong.

Some of us were never taught to pray to saints and we don't do it. But many of us were taught to do it. Again, what we're doing is asking the saints to join us in voicing our prayer to God. We're not putting the saint before God. At least we are not supposed to be doing that.

Of those taught to pray to saints some of us received the revelation from God not to do it anymore. So we don't. But it's a hard teaching for a person who's been doing it a long time. Some folks just can't accept it. 

I think if a church is 99% good and it's feeding your spiritual needs then 1% disagreement doesn't matter. Remember God knows you and He knows what's inside you.

[1to3]

 

Scripture states seven times that false miracles will mislead many (Matthew 7:21-23, 24:24, Mark 13:22, 2 Thess 2:8-12, Rev 13:13,14, 16:14,19:20) and it seems that this will involve a large section of the world's population (the Greek word for many has the connotations of a majority). Those deceived will believe that they are serving God in the name of Jesus when in fact they are "workers of iniquity."

 

 

2Peter 2:1,2,3

1-But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destroying heresies,

even denying the Lord who bought them and bring on them swift destruction.

2-And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.

3- By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words, for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber

Matthew 24:24

23"Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him. 24"For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25"Behold, I have told you in advance.

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

17 hours ago, gdemoss said:

You have been explained many times over of the error you proclaim and I don't expect you to receive correction from me either.  Pray to whomever you believe God would have you to pray.  Believe whatever you will but don't approach me with your heretical veiws seeking to pull me from Christ or even God the Father to follow the logic of men that chase after whims of praying to those who have passed on before.  Your carnal logic causes you to err.  I will stay with direct communion in prayer unto Christ alone.

gdemoss nothing could be further from the truth.   I am simply demonstrating the contradiction between words and actions. Criticizing others for going to someone else for prayer  when you yourself go to others for prayer is absolutely contradictory.   

 

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

16 hours ago, enoob57 said:

This simply is building upon nothing and is like saying just because "it could be"/ scholarship is based upon facts
not assumptions... and yes when it is first seen in documentation is all we have to go on!

enoob, not at all.  It is buiding on known facts and putting two and two together and drawing reasonable conclusions.

Quote

The Scripture is clear
we have only One High Priest Only One Mediator between God and man >Christ Jesus< ... all else is heresy!

If you only have one mediator when it comes to prayer, and that mediator can only be Jesus, does that mean others can't pray for you?

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

16 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Praying to saints is pure paganism.   The RCC simply took old basilicas used for praying to pagan gods and employed the same kind of paganism but now they use "saints" instead of pagan deities, but it is all the same.   It's all part of Satan's plan.  It is not of God and God hates it.

That is your opinion.  It is, however, not backed up by history.

The OP deserves a proper depiction of history including that of protestantism's acceptance of prayer to the saints - which her Protestant Church endorses.   She wants to understand why, and the only way to answer her question appropriately is to give her a correct historical perspective which is all I have attempted to do.

[MorningGlory]

15 hours ago, Davida said:

Pile on by all means MG. I didn't censor anyone and it is again a very snide accusation if you agreed with it. I NEVER said stop posting. I never accused anyone of being a sinner.  I said please stop peddling a heretical teaching that is forbidden by God and an abomination. THis has been going on for months on multiple threads.  The Bible says it is forbidden and an abomination unto GOD, like Shilo says GOD hates it, the Bible makes that clear.  It is not something God takes lightly or is willing to overlook as the Bible makes that very clear.

 

Don't need any of the 'Got Questions' stuff; I form my own opinions.  You seem to recognize yourself as the point of my post.  Why is that?  It was not addressed to you.  But since you brought it up, you CAN'T censor what others post nor can you proclaim who is a sinner and who is not.  If some want to believe in praying to saints, then that's what they believe.  I personally don't but I also don't think I'm God.

[Willa]

The problem is that we only base doctrine on the 66 books of the Bible.  We do not base doctrine on the Apocrapha, history, the errors or practices of the early church or anything else not contained in Scripture.  Basing doctrine on tradition is like basing it on the game of gossip.  In the end you end up with twisted, story that has been added to and bare resemble the original facts.  The Bible is a sound foundation.  It refutes the errors of the time, and warns us that more error will come.  We need to pray that those who have been deceived by the traditions of men may be set free and return to the sound foundation of the Bible.

Col. 2:8  Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, ACCORDING TO THE TRADITION OF MEN, according to the basic principals of the world, AND NOT ACCORDING TO CHRIST.  

1 Cor. 8:34 NKJV  Who is he who condemns?  It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

Heb. 7:25  Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.  

Heb 4:14-16 NKJV  Seeing that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus Christ the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.  For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but in all points was tempted as we are, yet without sin. LET US THEREFORE COME BOLDLY TO THE THRONE OF GRACE, THAT WE MAY FIND GRACE TO HELP AND MERCY IN TIME OF NEED.

1 Tim. 2:5  For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all,--

Article 6 of the Book of Common Prayer's 39 articles lists the books of the old and new testament on which doctrine can be based.  The Apocrapha is listed seperately as OK to read but may NOT be used for a basis of doctrine.  This leaves 66 books for a basis of doctrine and teaching in your church.  Tradition is not a basis of doctrine. This means that since praying to dead saints is not verified by Scripture, you should not believe it.

 

[B3L13v3R]

The living Christians are by all means interceding to the One Mediator, Jesus Christ.
The living are not dead.
The living are never called to pray to the dead, Saint or otherwise anywhere in Scripture...

1Timothy 2: 1-4
1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

One Mediator, and ONLY One Mediator, Jesus Christ, God the Son:

1Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Calling upon the dead to pray for us is heresy and as OO suggested, it is a form of necromancy, which is forbidden by God Almighty in Scripture.
The necromancer is mentioned as an abomination.
Right along side of divination, observers of times (astrologers,) witches, charmers, familiar (demon) spirits, and wizards.

Deuteronomy 18:9-12
 9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a *necromancer.
12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Christians, run from those who promote such demonic things, no matter how caustic, polite, or sincere they may seem to be.
They are sincerely wrong.

Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary:
*NECROMANCY, n. [Gr. Dead, and divination.]
 1. The art of revealing future events by means of a pretended communication with the dead. This imposture is prohibited. Deu 18.
 2. Enchantment; conjuration.

Stand fast with God and His Word.
When anyone steps outside of it's boundaries, God's foundations are destroyed, and heresies abound:

Psalms 11:3
If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?