Vatican: Jews can be saved without Christ

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, OldSchool2 said:

If the Vatican had said that Jews didn't play a role in our salvation, you would be arguing to the contrary.

The Jews never played a role in our salvation.   God used them to make Gentile salvation possible, but nothing the Jews ever did as a nation played a role in our salvation.  But what is worse is that this contemptible Vatican says that Jews don't need to be converted to Christianity.  That's why this Pope is an anti-Christ leader and not a follower of Christ.  He is a terrible Pope and false prophet.  

[missmuffet]

No one can be saved without Christ and that includes Jews.Yes?

[Ezra]

4 hours ago, bopeep1909 said:

No one can be saved without Christ and that includes Jews.Yes?

Evidently the Vatican does not agree. Also the Pope considers Muslims as "brothers".

He also deviated a bit from script when speaking to Muslims in Jerusalem, calling them "dear brothers" rather than the expected "dear friends," The Associated Press reported.

"May we respect and love one another as brothers and sisters," he said, AP reported. "May we learn to understand the suffering of others. May no one abuse the name of God through violence."

[Guest shiloh357]

2 hours ago, inchrist said:

Well actually the Pope is is taking a dispensationalism view.

Pope Benedict statement, lies in the Biblical notion of the “times of the Gentiles.”

"The charge given by Jesus to carry the Gospel to the ends of the earth, Benedict says, implies a sequence: first the “full number” of the Gentiles comes to the faith, and only then the Jews. He quotes St. Bernard of Clairvaux’s advice to one of his predecessors, Pope Eugene III, that “a determined time has been fixed” for the conversion of the Jews “that cannot be anticipated.”

“Israel is in the hands of God, who will save it ‘as a whole’ at the proper time, when the number of Gentiles is full,” the pope writes. 

Dispensationalism rests on the notion of clear seperation of church and Israel and salvation for the Jews is for an appointed time in the distant future, not now.

 

No, that is not Dispensationalism.  Dispensationalism doesn't teach that salvation for the Jews is for an appointed time in the future.  Dispensationalists believe that Jews need Jesus now.   What we see as future is the millennial kingdom, not Jewish salvation.   Unsaved Jews will never make it to the millennial kingdom.   Only Jews who convert now during the church age will go into the millennium.

[OldSchool2]

11 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

The Jews never played a role in our salvation.   God used them to make Gentile salvation possible....

... therefore the Jews did play a role in our salvation, whether they intended to, or not.

[other one]

OS,  that is my understanding also.....       but I have a question that I haven't seen covered on this thread. unless I just overlooked it.

If the Jews are all going to be saved in the end, why were the Apostles and Disciples going into the synagogues on the Sabbath preaching to the Jews.  

They suffered a lot of abuse to do that...   If they were preaching to the Jews then, why should we not be preaching to them now.   It seems to me that the Pope is telling George to stop what he is doing in Israel.....   I hope you understand how awful that sounds to me.

[OldSchool2]

5 hours ago, other one said:

OS,  that is my understanding also.....       but I have a question that I haven't seen covered on this thread. unless I just overlooked it.

If the Jews are all going to be saved in the end, why were the Apostles and Disciples going into the synagogues on the Sabbath preaching to the Jews.  

They suffered a lot of abuse to do that...   If they were preaching to the Jews then, why should we not be preaching to them now.   It seems to me that the Pope is telling George to stop what he is doing in Israel.....   I hope you understand how awful that sounds to me.

That doesn't sound right to me either as Jesus said there was no other way to the Father (salvation) but through him. However, the story -- titled "Vatican calls on Catholics to stop trying to convert Jews" -- has only partially excerpted quotes and paraphrases that may reflect a separate agenda on behalf of the (Jewish) editors of The Times of Israel.

For example, does "Jews can secure eternal salvation without converting to Christianity" mean they can simply embrace Messianic Judaism? After all, Peter -- whom Catholics consider to be the first Pope -- didn't leave Judaism and continued to attend temple, according to the Book of Acts.

Personally I would want to see the original, unedited document from the Vatican before I passed final judgement on it. But I suspect its conclusions are not binding on members of the Catholic Church, or anyone else for that matter.

[Guest shiloh357]

7 hours ago, OldSchool2 said:

... therefore the Jews did play a role in our salvation, whether they intended to, or not.

The Vatican is claiming the Jews play (present tense) a role in our salvation and therefore don't need to be converted.  Jews never played a role in the plan of salvation, though.   You can keep trying spew lies, but they are still lies.

[JohnD]

On 12/10/2015, 8:47:05, shiloh357 said:

More proof that the Pope is a false prophet.

I have to agree with you here.

[Ezra]

6 hours ago, inchrist said:

 So dispensationalism isn't about the Church being distinct from Israel, and when God is through with the Church, and raptures the church to glory then He brings that time of Jacob's distress, purges, redeems Israel, and then the kingdom comes?

God does have a plan for redeemed and restored Israel, but those Jews must also believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. So whether Jews are within the Church until the Rapture, or Jews are saved after the second coming of Christ, unless they are washed with His blood and clothed with His righteousness, they are lost and on their way to Hell. The church of Rome has been sending millions to Hell with another Gospel, and now many Jews will be deceived instead of being truly saved.