The Time of Testing

[completedbeliever1]

5 hours ago, Spock said:

This can't be correct.  Revelation was written in 95 AD, which was 25 years after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD.  Why would John reference something in the past?  

The book of revelation was written before 70 AD.

Yashua told Peter that John would be around to see him "come" back. This was in reference to Titus.

John recorded the fall of Jerusalem before it happened and that was where we get revelation.

[Spock]

5 hours ago, completedbeliever1 said:

The book of revelation was written before 70 AD.

Yashua told Peter that John would be around to see him "come" back. This was in reference to Titus.

John recorded the fall of Jerusalem before it happened and that was where we get revelation.

You may be right....but I still hold to the latter date theory, after Jerusalem fell in 70. 

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/revelation.html

[WilliamL]

13 hours ago, Spock said:

Rev. 14 begins with the 144,000 Israelite elect seen before God upon Mount Zion, the ones who had been leading their people upon earth throughout the Trumpets. Rev. 14 ends with the harvest of those people -- "the harvest of the earth" -- after they have been purged and separated in the Ezek. 20 wilderness trials.

Actually these are my words quoted by Spock.

13 hours ago, Spock said:

Hey William,

are you saying this passage in Rev 14 describing this reaping is a RAPTURE of the 144,000 faithful Jews we first got a glimpse of in Rev 14 plus any converts they made?  Just curious, are these ONLY Jewish converts? 

so, the faithful church gets raptured in Rev 7 and the faithful Jews get raptured in rev 14?  Two raptures?

Yes, Rev. 7 tells us they are 12,000 Israelites from each of the 12 tribes. The ones originally sanctified by God in their foreheads at the Coming of Christ for the elect of his Church. From my website, "Job Openings in the Kingdom Age:"

Following the opening of the 6th Seal of Revelation 6 and the descent of Christ, the 144,000 Israelites are to be "sealed in their foreheads," i.e., their 'upper rooms.' Rev. 7:3-8  "Whether in the body or out of the body, God knows" (2 Cor. 12:2-4), they will be "caught up" into the Presence for a space, then return below to lead their people. At a later date, they will receive a greater empowerment, coming to stand with the Lamb before God's throne.  Rev. 14:1-5

These earthly rulers correspond to the 70 elders of the Exodus era:

When the LORD descended upon Mount Sinai, he called "up...seventy of the leaders of Israel" (along with Moses, and Aaron and his sons) into his Presence. Ex. 24:1, 9  These Seventy were later more fully anointed with authority, receiving part of the Holy Spirit that God had given Moses. Num. 11:16-30  The Seventy were anointed tribal elders, but were not priests.

The 144,000 are the only ones Rev. 14:1-5 say will stand "before the throne of God," not other believing Israelites also. Those other earthly Israelites are the ones "harvested" in the end of Rev. 14 in the earthly harvests of "wheat" (common people) and wine (religious leaders). Or alternately, perhaps the wheat are the remnant of Joseph and his associated tribes, and the wine are the remnant of Judah and his associated tribes.

At any rate, these events come at the conclusion of the earthly Judgments/separations of the Trumpets, being of nephesh/soul-level people. Two previous judgments/separations have already taken place by this time: 1) the elohim, at the very instant of the beginning of the Parousia, and 2) the Church, during the period of the Seals; being that of the ruach/spirit-level people. The fourth and final judgment/separation is of the flesh-level peoples, being the Judgment of the Nations at the Battle of Armageddon.