Where is the 3rd Heaven?

[Your closest friendnt]

41 minutes ago, OldSchool2 said:

John 1:14 Amplified Bible (AMP)

The Word Made Flesh

^"14 And the Word (Christ) became flesh, and lived among us; and we [actually] saw His glory, glory as belongs to the [One and] only begotten Son of the Father, [the Son who is truly unique, the only One of His kind, who is] full of grace and truth (absolutely free of deception)...."

John 1:1-3 Amplified Bible (AMP)

The Deity of Jesus Christ

"1 In the beginning [before all time] was the Word (^[a]Christ), and the Word was with God, and ^[b]the Word was God Himself. ² He was [continually existing] in the beginning [co-eternally] with God. ³ All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him not even one thing was made that has come into being...."

Footnotes:

1. John 1:1 In John the Apostle’s vision (Rev 19), he sees Christ returning as Warrior-Messiah-King, and “...His name is called The Word of God...and LORD OF LORDS.” (Rev 19:13, 16).
2. John 1:1 In this phrase, “God” appears first in the Greek word order, emphasizing the fact that “the Word” (Christ) was God—so “God Himself.”

You need to do a lot of explanation,    You did not mention God the Father, but you mention the Word, as the Son of God.

And the Word is not Jesus yet, in the beginning, and thus can not be the Christ, even thought he was the only one eligible to fill the shoes of Christ, a) he has not come in the flesh yet to be Jesus, and he has not died in obedience to be declare the Christ by the Father. 

In Revelation that's what it is Written by Jonh and given to him, by Jesus Christ. 

I see God with the Authority of his Christ.

I don't know why you throw this scripture of revelation in, what is the propose, it is not in together with the scriptures we are looking, did you mean to contradict, what Jonh said; FULL of GRACE and THRUTH. 

It seems to contradict the Words of Jesus that said The heavenly Father, when he was here on earth, and the voice that came out of heaven and Jesus said; this is the voice of the God ( the Father).

 

The statment "he was continually existing in the beginning and co-eternally with God"  

the "continually existing" it hides some secret suggestions, that's why Jonh was not inspired by the Holy Spirit to phrase it that way.

Because Jonh already said, that they were together the tow of them before any creation, and that it was the Word who did the creation with the will of God or that God ask him to do be the creator.

And "co- eternally", what does that suppose to mean? 

We all know that Jesus, and before he was in the flesh, as the Word, as the Creator, as the Lord God, as in the Man Jesus was all the time with the Life of God in him, that he never disobey God to be seperated from God or to have death in him, and he died with the Life in Him and God when he raised him from the dead he still had the Life in him, and he was glorified and sitted on The Throne of God with the Life of God in him, that's why he gives us his life ( the life of God, when we believe in him), because he have the Life of God himself.

[OldSchool2]

4 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

You need to do a lot of explanation....

I don't know why you throw this scripture of revelation in, what is the propose...

And "co- eternally", what does that suppose to mean?...

"co" means "together; joint; jointly; mutually"; I trust you can look up the meaning of eternal(ly) for yourself.

And I don't "throw" scripture; if you didn't understand the verses, there were footnotes in [brackets] courtesy of the Amplified Bible, a Bible whose purpose is "to reveal, together with the single word English equivalent to each Hebrew and Greek word, any other clarifying shades of meaning that may be concealed by the traditional word-for-word method of translation, so that the full meaning of the key words in the original text is available in an English version of the Bible."

How much more explanation -- than what you were already given -- do you still need?

[Your closest friendnt]

21 minutes ago, OldSchool2 said:

"co" means "together; joint; jointly; mutually"; I trust you can look up the meaning of eternal(ly) for yourself.

And I don't "throw" scripture; if you didn't understand the verses, there were footnotes in [brackets] courtesy of the Amplified Bible, a Bible whose purpose is "to reveal, together with the single word English equivalent to each Hebrew and Greek word, any other clarifying shades of meaning that may be concealed by the traditional word-for-word method of translation, so that the full meaning of the key words in the original text is available in an English version of the Bible."

How much more explanation -- than what you were already given -- do you still need?

"Co-eternally existence"  this sugestion is not supported by the totality of the scriptures and the propose of God the Father and the confession of both God the Father and our redeemer Jesus Christ. 

The Father has remain in the heavens all the time, he never left the heavens. ( there is a lot of scripture and the testimony of Jesus Christ to that).

There is at least one period of time that is undisputed, that the Father and Jesus Christ did not have any contact at all, A time period that the co-eternal existence is not there.

By now that period of time must have come to your memory. 

The very famous statement " Eli Eli  lama sabahthani", 

"Father Father why you have forsaken me"

Do I need to Explain it, that Jesus was on his own for three days, without any spiritual communication with the Father. 

There was an absence of fellowship for three days. 

There are more instances before that and for longer periods of time.

 

You have not respond to the statment in Jonh 1:1,2 that the word "with" is not found in the original text. 

Yes they were together in the beginning, the Word was with the Father.

But in the Greek text the words "pros ton Theon" denotes that the Word was subjected to obedience towards the Father, and not the other way around. 

That's make it clear that the word was subject to disobedience to the Father, but not the Father. 

God love the word that he SENT his own Son .........

I must Drink this cup, for this reason I came to the World. 

[Retrobyter]

On January 23, 2016 at 7:28 AM, inchrist said:

No I can take "ripping" as you call it, however when one comes in the name of shalom, one expects that person to come in peace and not agitation. The fact that you were seeking agitation places you in a position of deceit...and makes you a hypocrite. Hence why I asked you to drop the shalom...not for my sake but for your sake. 

 

You must have missed their statement, when they explained that a vacuum of space isnt exactly nothing.

Quantum mechanics would further disagree with you and quantum entanglement

 

Exactly so how can they be praising God which according to the writer these waters were established for ever? When they are no longer in existence? 

Your position is incorrect, you are forcing thought into the writers mind.

 

I'm going to keep calling it sky father mythology because it is sky father mythology...what else must I call it?

Do you not think God can control the weather and fire coming down from the sky all the way from His throne in the third heaven? Does God have to be according to you in our sky in order to achieve this?

Like I said you are not understanding the nature of God, hence why I keep referring you to the tabernacle.

If you look at the layout of the tabernacle the outer court is where sin dwells. As you know sin can dwell here on earth and in our entire universe.

The very physical fullness of God can not dwell in the outer court of the tabernacle as God does not dwell his throne around sin hence stating the obvious why God's shekinah glory was only present in the holy of holies...the same reason why God's abode can not dwell in our first heaven and second heaven amongst sin...the simple reason is everything would be completely annihilated if that was the case, sin and God do not mix.

This is why priests had to purify themselves before even thinking about entering the holy place and holy of Holies least they be annihilated by God's shekinah glory that manifested itself as a cloud in the tabernacle and temple.

 

Therefore it refers to the third heaven.

 

That's where we disagree. 

 

Again second guessing...I don't need to rely on Peter to prove the three levels of heaven...as I explained I have the tabernacle. ..me making use of Peter or not does not take away whether I reject your theory or not....you are simply looking for anything and desperately trying to show one must accept your way ....these are not the only options, when I have the option of accepting both. 

Your theory on Peter does not rest on disqualifying the common held believe in three levels of heavens. As I said previously the bible is multi dynamic. One can accept both theories and be in complete harmony of scriptures.

However how you have gone about it is what is being rejected. It's your way and nothing else.

 

Then explain to me what this is?

 Heaven" refers to the "sky" or the "atmosphere," and the "heaven of heavens" refers to "space where the stars are."

 

Heaven of heavens would be the second heaven

 

You can read the script over and over as much as you like...but whether it's sunk in is another matter altogther.

So let's go through it slowly.

 

That's your first mistake. 

 

I really think you need to pick up a science book up at some stage....being colorless doesn't stop the light from being reflected, refracted and obsorbed by colorless water vapour.

 

So far one thing we can agree on.

 

That depends if I'm being unreasonable

It's really not difficult to ask a question. Just try it....

 

Your argument is flawed, firstly no one believes God is going to destroy his abode for the new heaven and new earth....I've already provided you scripture that God moves his abode to earth...so why you keep bringing that up is really pointless....as no one believes this.

 

The only reason why you keep relying on the notion of God's abode being destroyed in your arguments is you are grossly showing a complete misunderstanding of what is commonly believed in the three levels of heaven. Perhaps it's best if you start over in your research in trying to discredit the common held the three levels of heaven and find out what it is actually believed first before trying to discredit it.

Secondly you are under the false impression that destroing a whole universe seems a rather drastic solution to the problem of a fallen world. 

However, Scripture is clear that the whole creation fell and was not limited to only our biosphere

Romans 8:19–23 says:

“For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies”

It is the entire universe, all of creation, that is cursed. Thus, all of creation is in need of restoration and not limited to our biosphere.

Acts 3:21New King James Version (NKJV)

21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

As you can clearly see the restoration of ALL things...that includes ALL of creation, including the universe. 

This is confirmed further by the following verses of changes we see taking place in our universe we call space.

2peter 3:12

Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat

Hebrews 12:26-28New King James Version (NKJV)

26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I shake[a] not only the earth, but also heaven.”

Matthew 24:29-31

Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

Mark:13:25

the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

 

Shabbat shalom, inChrist, and whether YOU have it or not, it IS a "Shabbat of peace" for me because I let my peace return to me if it bounces off of you. (Matt. 10:13)

Every one of these Scripture verses you've quoted are EASILY explained with the simple understanding that the "heavens" are simply the "skies." I would also caution you on the English version(s) you choose to use for your arguments. English versions, never receiving the promise of divine inspiration, are NOT PERFECT! They are simply man's attempt at making God's Word, written in Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek, accessible to all.

First, let's just get this out of the way: I didn't say "ripping" as in "tearing to shreds!" I said "RIBBING" as in "poking someone in the ribs (which tickles) and then LAUGHING TOGETHER! You really don't know me at all, yet, do you? (By the way, ... there. I've "asked you a question." <Poke! Poke!>)

I didn't "miss" these scientists' statement that space is not empty at the particle level (or the quark level); I just really don't know whether to believe them or not. See, the whole speculation on particles and quarks and strings is based upon calculation with a FEW observations here and there, which may or may not support their hypotheses. They often use the field of statistics, but that field is all about PROBABILITY! However, probabilities faulter when one has reached the end - the limits - of the actual, physical world in which we live.

For instance, when we are talking about the "edge" of our atmosphere, probability tells us that there is ALWAYS a certain probability - a certain chance - that a particular atom may be some X amount of miles away from the earth's surface. That's just the calculations. In reality, however, that probability curve is ATTENUATED based upon the amount of mass that atom has in conjunction with the mass of the earth. The true curve in the mathematical realm LOOKS like a probability curve extending on forever, never reaching zero ... for a while, but in reality, it curves off to zero as one approaches the physical limits of the gravitational pull of the earth and that of the atom. A random atom NEVER has enough energy to reach its escape velocity. Our space vehicles must have a TREMENDOUS amount of energy added to the works to reach escape velocity! Therefore, there is a physical limit to the math.

That would be true for subatomic particles that have mass, as well. Do they incorporate that miniscule difference into their calculations? I doubt it. It would make the calculations too unmanageable - too unwieldy. God, however, would never make that mistake. He knows the size and nature and position of every subatomic particle, quark, or string in the whole, vast universe at any given moment!

Now, let's come back to earth for a moment. All of what they have said and even what I just said about God is all CONJECTURE! They're all examples of our feeble attempts to understand what God has already put in place! So, I'll table that discussion until we can have God's direct input.

Regarding Psalm 148:6, here's the text in transliterated Hebrew with word-by-word translation:

Tehiyl 148:1-14
1 Halluw Yaah. Halluw et YHWH min hashaamayim: Halluwhuw bamrowmiym:
2 Halluwhuw kaal mal’aakhaayuw: Halluwhuw kaal tsaVaa’aayuw:
3 Halluwhuw shemesh vyaareeach: Halluwhuw kaal kowkhVeey owr:
4 Halluwhuw shmeey hashaamaayim vhamayim asher mee`al hashaamaayim.
5 Yhalluw et sheem YHWH: Kiy huw’ tsivaah vniVraa’uw:
6 Vaya`amiyreem laa`ad l`owlaam: Chaaq naatan vlo’ ya`aVowr:
7 Halluw et YHWH min haa’aarets taniyniym vkhaal t-homowt:
8 Eesh uwVaaraad sheleg vqiyTowr ruwach c`aaraah `osaah dVaarow:
9 Hehaariym vkhaal gVaa`owt `eets priy vkhaal araaziym:
10 Hachayaah vkhaal bheemaah remes vtsipowr kaanaaf:
11 Malkheey erets vkhaal l’umiym saariym vkhaal shofTeey aarets:
12 Bachuwriym vgam btuwlowt: zqeeniym `im n`aariym:
13 Yhalluw et sheem YHWH: Kiy nisgaaV; shmow lbadow Howdow `al eres vshaamaayim:
14 Vayaarem qeren l`amow t-hilaah lkhaal chaciydaayuw; liVneey Yisraa’eel `am qroVow. Halluw Yaah:
JPS Hebrew-English TANAKH

1 Halluw = 1 You-praise
Yaah. = YAH.
Halluw = You-praise
et = (the next word is the direct object)
YHWH = YHWH
min = from
hashaamayim: = the-skies:
Halluwhuw = You-praise-Him
bamrowmiym: = in-[the]-heights:
2 Halluwhuw = 2 You-praise-Him
kaal = all
mal’aakhaayuw: His-messengers:
Halluwhuw = You-praise-Him
kaal = all
tsaVaa’aayuw: = His-army:
3 Halluwhuw = 3 You-praise-Him
shemesh = sun
vyaareeach: = and-moon:
Halluwhuw = You-praise-Him
kaal = all
kowkhVeey = stars
owr: = of-light:
4 Halluwhuw = 4 You-praise-Him
shmeey = skies
hashaamaayim = of-the-skies
vhamayim = and-the-waters
asher = that-[are]
mee`al = from-above
hashaamaayim. = the-skies.
5 Yhalluw = Let-them-praise
et = (the next word is the direct object)
sheem = a-name/an-authority
YHWH: = of-YHWH:
Kiy = For
huw’ = He
tsivaah = commanded
vniVraa’uw: = and-they-were-created:
6 Vaya`amiyreem = 6 And-he-has-made-them-stand
laa`ad = to-the-end
l`owlaam: = to-that-concealed/beyond-the-vanishing-point: 
Chaaq = A-decree
naatan = He-gave
vlo’ = and-not
ya`aVowr: = it-shall-cross-over:
7 Halluw = 7 You-praise
et = (the next word is the direct object)
YHWH = YHWH
min = from
haa’aarets = the-Land/earth/ground
taniyniym = sea-monsters
vkhaal = and-all
t-homowt: = [denizens-of-the]-deep:
8 Eesh = 8 Fire
uwVaaraad = and-hail
sheleg = snow
vqiyTowr = and-smoke
ruwach = wind
c`aaraah = of-a-storm
`osaah = doing
dVaarow: = His-word:
9 Hehaariym = 9 The-mountains
vkhaal = and-all
gVaa`owt = hills
`eets = trees
priy = of-their-fruits
vkhaal = and-all
araaziym: = cedars:
10 Hachayaah = 10 Beasts
vkhaal = and-all
bheemaah = herd-animals
remes = creeping-things
vtsipowr = and-birds
kaanaaf: = of-wing:
11 Malkheey = 11 Kings
erets = of-earth
vkhaal = and-all
l’umiym = to/for-peoples
saariym = princes
vkhaal = and-all
shofTeey = judges
aarets: = of-the-earth:
12 Bachuwriym = 12 Young-men
vgam = and-assembly
btuwlowt: = of-virgins:
zqeeniym = old-people
`im = with
n`aariym: = children:
13 Yhalluw = 13 Let-them-praise
et = (the next word is the direct object)
sheem = name/authority
YHWH: = of-YHWH:
Kiy = For
nisgaaV; = is-excellent;
shmow = His-name/authority
lbadow = to/for-His-separation
Howdow = His-glory
`al = above/upon/against
erets = [the]-earth
vshaamaayim: = and-skies:
14 Vayaarem = 14 And-He-exalts
qeren = a-horn
l`amow = to/for-His-people
t-hilaah = the-psalm
lkhaal = to/for-all
chaciydaayuw; = his-kind-ones;
liVneey = to/for-the-children
Yisraa’eel = of-Israel
`am = a-people
qroVow. = His-kinfolk.
Halluw = You-praise
Yaah: = YAH:

Therefore, the waters that are from above the skies ARE "still in existence"; they're just not in the same place as they were before the Flood! Not "forcing thought into the writer's mind"; just letting it FLOW!

You asked, "I'm going to keep calling it sky father mythology because it is sky father mythology...what else must I call it?"

and,

"Do you not think God can control the weather and fire coming down from the sky all the way from His throne in the third heaven? Does God have to be according to you in our sky in order to achieve this?"

You must call it what it is: God's dealing with human life on THIS planet! Of course "God COULD control the weather and cause fire to come down from the sky" from beyond the atmosphere, beyond the solar system, beyond the alpha quadrant of the Milky Way Galaxy, beyond the other galaxies and nebulae, and beyond the edge of the Universe (if there IS an edge to the Universe), but He is OMNIPRESENT, that is, EVERYWHERE AT THE SAME TIME! Therefore, there IS NO "God controlling the weather ... from beyond the Universe"; He controls the weather of this planet ... and EVERY planet ... FROM EVERYWHERE! But, where do WE look when we turn to God? We look to the skies as the most grandiose view we know! It reminds us just how BIG and AWESOME our God is!

To my statement, 'The earth was NOT "formed from it [water],"' all YOU could say was, "That's your first mystake [sic]!" Where's your proof?! Upon what book, chapter, and verse do you base that? Surely you don't think this is what Genesis 1:9-10 means, do you?

Genesis 1:9-10
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
KJV

or Psalm 136:6?

Psalm 136:6
6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.
KJV

That's not what these verses are saying, y'know. The Hebrew word "`al" is translated "above," "over," "upon," or "against." The word simply means that the "earth," that is the "ground," is "above" or higher than sea level, the top surface of the "seas," not that it's ON TOP OF the "seas" or FROM OUT OF the "seas!"

Now, you said the following:

"Like I said you are not understanding the nature of God, hence why I keep referring you to the tabernacle.

If you look at the layout of the tabernacle the outer court is where sin dwells. As you know sin can dwell here on earth and in our entire universe.

The very physical fullness of God can not dwell in the outer court of the tabernacle as God does not dwell his throne around sin hence stating the obvious why God's shekinah glory was only present in the holy of holies...the same reason why God's abode can not dwell in our first heaven and second heaven amongst sin...the simple reason is everything would be completely annihilated if that was the case, sin and God do not mix."

No, it's YOU who does not understand the nature of God. All the theology in the world can't compare to Scripture that contradicts that theology:

Psalm 139:7-12
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
KJV

There is NOWHERE where God is NOT! "The very physical fullness of God cannot dwell in the outer court of the tabernacle?" NONSENSE! You don't understand God's attribute of omnipresence nor do you understand the purpose of the Lake of Fire! Just who do you think will be the One dealing out the punishment of the Lake of Fire?! Contrary to public opinion, haSatan is NOT the "king of Hell!" He fears the Lake of Fire just as much as anyone does! In fact, he not only fears it, he dreads the day he will be thrown there! He KNOWS it is his destiny! He'll go kicking and screaming, but he SHALL GO TO THE LAKE OF FIRE! (Revelation 20:10 and Matthew 25:41.) You know this, right? I ask because it doesn't sound like you do.

God may not STOMACH sin, but He "cannot DWELL with it?" RIDICULOUS! HE IS EVERYWHERE THE SAME!

Okay, good, I'm glad that you believe that the age of the earth is less than 10,000 years. That's a start.

You then said, "Your argument is flawed, firstly no one believes God is going to destroy his abode for the new heaven and new earth....I've already provided you scripture that God moves his abode to earth...so why you keep bringing that up is really pointless....as no one believes this." Oh, really? I can list a few right here on this forum!

Sister, for instance, once said, ...

 

Quote

 

Posted 29 Oct 2014 · Report post

On October 28, 2014 at 7:04 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Sister,

 

Great to talk with you. I read what you have written & I think we can open it up some more.

 

1. What do you think God`s word tells us of `our heavenly calling?`

2. What do you think God`s word tells us of `our hope?`

3. What do you think from God`s word is `our heavenly inheritance?`

4. What do you think from God`s word is `our heavenly citizenship?`

 

Blessings, Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn

...

1.  Our calling is heavenly, not of this earth, but from above.  God is not calling us to come up to heaven, but to change our spirit within, and to make it holy like he is.  He is calling us to seek him, find truth, change, and know him.  That's what the heavenly calling is about, replacing the spirit of man, with the spirit of God, exercising righteousness, and holiness.  The rewards come later.  We don't do it for the rewards, but because we are in agreeance with his ways, and have learn't what the consequenses of sin is.  To have our eyes opened to all that is going on and why and to know love, for God is love.

 

2.  Our hope is in him of course, not in material things, or anything that this world can offer.

 

3.  Our inheritance is everlasting life.  Inheriting all that belongs to God, the heavens and the earth.  Being perfected, and having new spiritual bodies that will not get sick or die.  Belonging to a place where truth and love exist, ...peace.

 

4.  Our citizenship is heaven of course. ...but don't forget that after the 1000 years, God is going to melt the heavens and the earth, and replace it with a new one. 

This is because heaven has been contaminated (satan was there), and God's name has been blasphemed by men and angels.

The heavens (universe) have been contaminated also, because man has worshiped the sun, stars, moon and believed in astrology etc,

and I don't need to explain the earth with it's contaminations.  All these are spiritual contaminations, or abominations.

 

So keeping that in mind God will make all things new for us,

and I was only thinking about this the other day - the resurrected saints have a thousand years to fulfill, then the final judgement.  In this final judgement, the wicked will be destroyed forever, and the good who are written in the lambs book of life will be resurrected also.  We now have all the newly resurrected saints standing with the saints before them who were raised 1000 years earlier - all together, assembled in one place, all in Christ presented to God, adorned like a bride.  Magnificent.

 ....so at the end, all is cleaned up, the wicked destroyed, hell gone, and left standing only are all the saints that been purified, .....

but not all is really cleaned up, because a new heaven and a new earth is about to be created for habitation.  The old one has to go.

 

My question is, why would God let the saints 1000 years prior inherit something that has been contaminated, if it's not perfect and needed to be restored?

Would the God of perfection give an imperfect inheritance to his perfected children, only to destroy it?

It's just something I have been thinking about.

To me that is possible, but not reasonable.

The whole body of Christ, when completed and finalised will be given something new & undefiled all together at the same time.  Their inheritance.

Just thinkin.

 

 

 

So, be careful with your claims.

Be careful of misplaced universalisms. If the "creation" is that of the earth and its skies or the atmosphere, then the destruction of creation need not be the "whole Universe!"

[OldSchool2]

18 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

"Co-eternally existence"  this sugestion is not supported by the totality of the scriptures and the propose of God the Father and the confession of both God the Father and our redeemer Jesus Christ....

It's "co-eternally," not "Co-eternally existence," which is as ungrammatical as the rest of your word salad responses.

And if you don't believe that Jesus was co-eternal with the Father, then you have denied the Trinity.

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, OldSchool2 said:

It's "co-eternally," not "Co-eternally existence," which is as ungrammatical as the rest of your word salad responses.

And if you don't believe that Jesus was co-eternal with the Father, then you have denied the Trinity.

You make me think that you don't understand the Gospel very well, 

Why don't you spell the Gospell they way you perceive it, then we will know if you follow Jesus in this matter. 

You can not speak on my behave, because right now you are my adversary, 

And I hope that one day you will read the scriptures very carefully, and learn to respond to the substance of what you are asking people to respond to you, because you are not. 

And I know, and I am not challenging you, that you are about to Ignore what I am going to reply to you.

IT WAS A TIME THAT THE FATHER WAS IN THE VERY HIGH , AND JESUS CHRIST WAS IN THE VERY LOWEST. 

 

[OldSchool2]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

You make me think that you don't understand the Gospel very well.... 

Perhaps you understand the Quran -- which forbids anyone to even say "Trinity" (Sura 4:169[171]) -- better than you do the Gospel?

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

You make me think that you don't understand the Gospel very well, 

Why don't you spell the Gospell they way you perceive it, then we will know if you follow Jesus in this matter. 

You can not speak on my behave, because right now you are my adversary, 

And I hope that one day you will read the scriptures very carefully, and learn to respond to the substance of what you are asking people to respond to you, because you are not. 

And I know, and I am not challenging you, that you are about to Ignore what I am going to reply to you.

IT WAS A TIME THAT THE FATHER WAS IN THE VERY HIGH , AND JESUS CHRIST WAS IN THE VERY LOWEST. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, OldSchool2 said:

Perhaps you understand the Quran -- which forbids anyone to even say "Trinity" (Sura 4:169[171]) -- better than you do the Gospel?

It is very obvious that you are misquoting me, and this is what I had posted, with a very clear question, and not only you did not answer, but you are censoring my post, and this is not the first time, and I have notice, that you are doing the same  thing with every one and at the same time you are introducing some unrelated fabricated matters.  

I don't know you, but I know other people who do that, and I don't know why,  and I hope that those people become conscious in what they are doing as not to give an advadenge and be carry away  by some strange wind without their consent In their search for the truths of our faith.

 

[angels4u]

On 1/24/2016 at 8:01 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

You gave me too much, but I will study it, and study it. 

There is one thing that quickly came to my mind, and is in the scriptures you mention,

That the word came forth from God, the we know the beginning of the World, it is the time that came forth from God, we do not know the specifics, as to say so many years ago, as we know that so many years ago the word was manifested in the flesh, but we know that it was a time that God was without the word, if not how can the word call him Father.

 

 

By reading your post John 1:1 came to my mind:

John 1:1New International Version (NIV)

The Word Became Flesh

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

I'm wondering after reading some of your posts is Jesus your Savior?

Is He your Lord?

He was in the beginning with God and He was the Word (Jesus ) He was with God and He is God .

Can you please tell me if Jesus is your God? Yes or No?

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

34 minutes ago, angels4u said:

By reading your post John 1:1 came to my mind:

John 1:1New International Version (NIV)

The Word Became Flesh

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

I'm wondering after reading some of your posts is Jesus your Savior?

Is He your Lord?

He was in the beginning with God and He was the Word (Jesus ) He was with God and He is God .

Can you please tell me if Jesus is your God? Yes or No?

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

 

 

What is the issue here, I am trying not to be too critical. 

a) Are we looking in what is the message that Jonh wanted his audience to understad? 

That what the apostle Jonh is telling us about Jesus Christ.

He is telling us something very unick about Jesus, something that it was not so easy for the people to relate to, and I guess if we had lived that time and were brought up in the Jewis and or Galilian culture, and had been introduce in the Mosaic law, and we were grounded in the scriptures understanding that the creator is the one who the Jewis people were whorsiping and is the same one who had appear to Moses in the mount Sina and he was the one whom the Jewis people  were worshiping  in the Temple. 

After hearing and understanding what Jonh in 1:1,2 the would say that the Jewis people who are not believers in Jesus Christ they are without God.

They thing they are offering their worship to the creator, but they dont understand that he is more.

That's one of the things Jonh was trying to say to Jewis believers, to call only upon the name of Jesus.