Who said , Grace covers all of the law of Moses ?

[thereselittleflower]

3 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

Sorry  that it offended you,

How can I explain this better?

My answer and belief is in what I already wrote.

 

which is this:

 

3 hours ago, 1to3 said:

Quote from o.O

"What it takes to get to heaven is, come judgment day, Jesus says that you and/or I are his and judgment is passed over for none of us ever are going to be worthy to go to heaven. "

 

That also my understanding, that we are forgiven in Christ Jesus and so we will not be under the same judgements as someone who has not confessed their sins and asked Christ Jesus to make a home in their hearts.

 

 

 

I asked you a question in clarification of what it seems you were saying:

• So you don't believe that Jesus makes us genuinely worthy of heaven?

 

I think the question addresses exactly what you said here.

 

 

Also, I would love to believe your apology was genuine, but I can't help but notice how making a derogatory comment about someone then saying "sorry it offended you" is not the same thing at all as saying "I'm sorry I said that."

 

 

 

 

 

[1to3]

Please re-read my reply, sorry for my syntax, and typos, I will try to correct my spelling when I get the chance,

If you read completely what I wrote a;ready on the subject matter, you will see my answer to your question.

 Peace out.

 

[thereselittleflower]

9 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

Please re-read my reply, sorry for my syntax, and typos, I will try to correct my spelling when I get the chance,

If you read completely what I wrote a;ready on the subject matter, you will see my answer to your question.

 Peace out.

 

I've read through your response.  I'm sorry, but other than what I quoted, I don't actually see the question addressed.    From what I see, which I quoted, the answer to my question:

Quote

• So you don't believe that Jesus makes us genuinely worthy of heaven?

I guess must be no, you don't.

 

[1to3]

14 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

I've read through your response.  I'm sorry, but other than what I quoted, I don't actually see the question addressed.    From what I see, which I quoted, the answer to my question:

I guess must be no, you don't.

 

 

O.K. its your choice if you want to believe that,

Here it is again what I wrote

I tried to correct a little further my spelling, hope it helps.

P.S. I have very slow dial up and it takes forever to review and edit.

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

Quote from o.O 

"What it takes to get to heaven is, come judgment day, Jesus says that you and/or I are his and judgment is passed over for none of us ever are going to be worthy to go to heaven. " 

  

That is also my understanding, that we are forgiven in Christ Jesus and so we will not be under the same judgements as someone who has not confessed their sins

 and asked Christ Jesus to make a home in their hearts. 

My understanding is also when you truly ask God to forgive your sins through Gods only begotten Son Christ Jesus and ask Gods Holy Spirit to make a home in your life

you are asking that God who is LAW to come make His home in your heart.  From my own experience, when you do this, The Holy Spirit of God does come to you

and begins to work in your heart, convicting your spirit, chastising your spirit making you aware of when you are going the wrong way

 and giving you His grace to show you how to overcome, and so by this we become born again, transformed step by step as the Holy Spirit of God works in our hearts. 

(This is the Law of God working in our hearts) we don't need external circumcision, because the Holy Spirit of God has circumcised our hearts 

Colossians 2:11 

10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority 

11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, 

in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 

12having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.… 

  

and for the Jews it was: 

Deuteronomy 30: 6 

5 "The LORD your God will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it; and He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers. 

6 "Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live. 

7"The LORD your God will inflict all these curses on your enemies and on those who hate you, who persecuted you.… 

----------------------------- 

I only know what I have experienced in my walk with God , and it is the Holy Spirit of God, who has gently awakened me to SEE where I went wrong,

 where I am still going wrong and what needs changing and transformation to become further purified in Him and by Him.. 

For sure, I am not there yet, but as long as I keep God close to my heart on a daily basis, my protection and salvation back to God has been covered

 by the shed blood of Gods only begotten Son Christ Jesus, that payed the penalty for ALL my sins.

 With that, my judgment was made when I turned my life to the cross and shed my sins with Christ Jesus on the cross and humbly asked the Holy Spirit of God to come into my heart 

and make His home in my heart. 

By doing this, the Laws of God are working in my heart, more so than without asking Him into my heart. 

That means that God consciousness is working in my heart and conscious, and when I go astray, like the good shepherd that Christ Jesus is, He comes gently to help me back up. 

Over the years, its the Holy Spirit of God who has changed me by Him working in me.

Through this my behaviors have changed, not by my effort but by my heart being changed more and more to the heart of  God=into His image. 

I know I have still learning and transformation to do,as we all do, but as long as I continue asking the Holy Spirit of God -let go of self and let God take the reigns.

 I know He will continue to work in my heart and guide me 

through my circumstances. and despite what may happen, good or bad, God is with me to see me through and to see me back home with Him 

  

---------------------------------------- 

The 10 commandments where given as sign posts to guide people in the right direction. They are not meant for good people to follow, 

because good people would naturally do them, they were placed to show the way to become good so to lead a healthier life, body, mind, soul. 

They are still important, for some people especially in this day and age, when many don't know anymore right from wrong, because everybody 

does as they please in the secular world and everything becomes confusion. God is not the author of confusion. 

God is Law, clear and simple to understand .

The 10 commandments should be naturally in the heart of someone who is pure without sin. 

The thing is that we ALL fall short of these laws because of our fallen nature. 

Adam and Eve, lost the discernment of Gods Law when their egos got seduced by satan to stray and do their own thing. 

When Abraham was, there were no established laws. 

Why did God still honor Abraham even without any established Laws? 

Because Abraham seeked God and seeked God alone, (no idol worship) just God alone.

Abraham seeked to establish a daily ongoing relationship with God, and listened to Gods guidance for all of his life. 

Sometimes Abraham got side tracked by his wife Sara or other who did not yet believe like Abraham, and Abraham succumbed 

to going the wrong way by sleeping with the maid servant instead of trusting God alone. But Abraham continued turning to God, asking God for guidance.

 And for this, Abrhams continued faith fullness to God, God Established His promises with Abraham's' seed. Because of Abraham's continued steadfast faithfulness in seeking an ongoing relationship with God and God alone. 

And God honored Abraham, because Abraham stayed loyal and true to God  by seeking & asking God to show him the way, to show him His ways over mans ways . 

Gods ways are His Laws. 

I am not talking about all the man-made laws that came about to keep people so busy to do the right thing,

 they barely had time to do the wrong thing, but still could not do the right thing because of their fallen nature

Those became intellectual obsessive compulsive laws, that actually took away rather than brought forth Gods true Laws.

 They to me are tradition add-on laws, just as faulty as the traditional Catholic man made add on Laws. 

Christ Jesus came to establish back the right Law into mans heart ( by the power of the Holy Spirit of God working in mans heart) that Satan had taken away from mans heart. 

 

[thereselittleflower]

Sorry 1to3

Simply repeating yourself isn't going to make what you said more understandable in regards to my question.

All it's doing is making us go round in circles.    

A simple yes or no right at first would have gone a long ways and would have been a very simple response - but here we are several posts later . . .  I see no point in continuing, do you?

 

 

[1to3]

39 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

Sorry 1to3

Simply repeating yourself isn't going to make what you said more understandable in regards to my question.

All it's doing is making us go round in circles.    

A simple yes or no right at first would have gone a long ways and would have been a very simple response - but here we are several posts later . . .  I see no point in continuing, do you?

 

 

I think that is an accurate assessment to conclude with.

God Bless

[rjp34652]

On January 10, 2016 at 9:28 AM, Spock said:

This topic seems to get muddled if you ask me. We seem to debate Mosaic Law vs. New Covenant.

Personally, I think this is not the issue. The bible did say god gave these laws to the Israelites. I know some believe all believers are grafted into Israel, and some do not feel this should Be interpreted as such. I'm in the latter camp, but I respect those who see it differently.  Those who strongly believe god does not want them to eat porky, then don't. Just don't bully others into thinking they have to agree with you on this one.  If you are right, then the pig eaters will hear about it at our judgment day, so move on. So, we may just have to agree to disagree and move on. 

Then, The issue should be the 10 commandments vs. the new covenant.  I think most Christians would agree that at least 9 commandments are still in effect. So, if we are honoring these 9/10 commandments, I think we are on the straight and narrow course. Even the one dude asked Jesus what must I do to inherit eternal life and didn't Jesus tell him to keep the commandments (10 commandments)?  

Now, for those who think even the 9/10 commandments are also not in effect because Jesus "fulfilled" the law, well, you have to agree at least to follow the two great commandments: 1. Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and 2. Love your neighbor as yourself. If you strive to follow this, I'm sure God will be pretty pleased with your life. If you don't, that is another judgment day issue between you and God. 

So, for me, this should not be a massive black and white tug of war battle between the Mosaic Law is in effect advocates vs. the New covenant has replaced Moses advocates.  We each have free will to decide what course we shall take on this and know that it is personal. We should express out thoughts and support it with scripture, but we should not judge the one from the other camp, and that goes both ways. I don't believe I need to eat porky, but I should respect someone who does believe the opposite. And this works the other way as well.

i hope we all can find enough common ground and tolerance regarding this issue. Heaven knows, imo, we have enough other issues much bigger to overcome. 

Spock out

When SIN enters in - everything gets "muddled".   

Has God dismissed judgment because a man joins a church?

Is there no punishment for sin among the wicked or the just?   There certainly is.   

Muddling, as it is discussed here, is simply an excuse to justify wickedness, slackness and licentiousness in the church.  THIS is why the spirit has departed from Christendom.   We have embraced sin and wickedness and called God's holy law confusion and mud.

Jesus came to fulfill the law - to act and to build and to extend and to put it in our hearts - NOT TO DISMISS IT.  He certainly did not come to justify lawlessness.

Was Christ a lawless man or was He the epitome of righteousness?  He was right and just and we are called to follow Him in all regards.   

God does not wink at sin.  Never has never will.   Anyone who believes this or who seeks to dismiss the dictates of righteous law is in league with the devil.

Be not "muddled" GOD IS NOT MOCKED for whatever a man sows THAT shall he reap.   

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

[other one]

14 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

So you don't believe that Jesus makes us genuinely worthy of heaven?

 

 

I don't know who you are asking that question.....   but just in case it is me, No I do not believe we ourselves can be worthy of heaven.      It is the righteousness of Jesus, not our own that gives us the opportunity to be members of the heavenly realm.

After we are resurrected and have eternal bodies, I can't speak for after the resurrection and we have the new bodies....     but the opportunity of having an eternal body with access to heaven is only from letting him be our lord.

[thereselittleflower]

52 minutes ago, other one said:

I don't know who you are asking that question.....   but just in case it is me, No I do not believe we ourselves can be worthy of heaven.      It is the righteousness of Jesus, not our own that gives us the opportunity to be members of the heavenly realm.

After we are resurrected and have eternal bodies, I can't speak for after the resurrection and we have the new bodies....     but the opportunity of having an eternal body with access to heaven is only from letting him be our lord.

I didn't ask if we made ourselves worthy, I asked if Jesus didn't genuinely make us worthy, which was a question based on something someone else said, who then chose not to answer but simply repeat what they said.

 

[kwikphilly]

Blessings other one,,,,,

    Oi vey,,,,this thread has too much repetition

Quote

So if the old Covenant laws are valid, we are all going to hell.

AMEN!!!!!    That about sums up what GRACE is & what it covers,,,,,,,,,,,,EVERYTHING,,,,,,,,,WHO said it,really?                               Love,Kwik