Who said , Grace covers all of the law of Moses ?

[1to3]

The laws of man made religious add on laws, those man -made add-on laws are void, no more are in effect, such as having to sacrifice animals for our sins.

At the time of Christ Jesus crucifixion, the temple of the Holy of Hollies was torn in two, that was a place where they would go and place a sacrificial animals for the redemption of their sins.

That " place of Hollies", was ripped in half at the time of Christs crucifixion.

after Christ Jesus fulfilled Gods plan of Mercy and Grace  on the cross at Calvary, Gods plan of Mercy and Grace came into affect.

Christ Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world to those who draw near to Him.

We are no longer in meed of being circumcised outwardly  as belonging to Christ Jesus, our hearts have been inwardly circumcised, Romans 2 : 15

"who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness and between themselves their thoughts accusing them or excusing them,"

 

[de1929]

On 1/3/2016 at 11:49 AM, SINNERSAVED said:

the Law of Moses which is the first five books , called the Torah, so when was the Torah put away and Grace of Yashua takes over, ?

do we take one covenant and remove it and completely bring in another, and it wipes all from the first completely out ?

I think this is a Big misunderstanding , and many are reading in too hard to make Grace more then it is ,

for do we even know , how many of the different Laws is talked about in acts alone, one is the ,

law of sin and death , and I believe I am saved by grace for my salvation, of sins and death , but all the rest still stands,

how can anyone say we are covered by Grace , and yet remove the law, ?

I know you will say we cannot live under the law for the punishments are with that, that is not what I am talking about , I am talking everything to be of the law of moses ,

and grace, to cover what it needs to cover, I think many are using it to justify every thing, what do you say ?

are you aware that there are cessasionism and continualism mindset ? (see my footnote for wikis)

cessasionism believes sola scripture, only exegesis is accepted.
continualism believes Prima scriptura, because RHEMA added more insight on the top of existing exegesis.
Some people call it eisegesis

you cannot use cessationism thinking to validate continualist mindset. what you have is giving old wine to new patch.
you cannot use continualist thinking to convince cessationism mindset. what you have is giving new wine to old patch.

-- your question is below --
Your question: Who said , Grace covers all of the law of Moses ?, It will have different reply from me, because i will answer depends on your mindset :D... yes, your mindset will determine my answers.

-- footnote --

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessationism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuationism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessationism_versus_continuationism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_scriptura
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prima_scriptura
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exegesis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisegesis
 

[thereselittleflower]

3 hours ago, de1929 said:

are you aware that there are cessasionism and continualism mindset ? (see my footnote for wikis)

cessasionism believes sola scripture, only exegesis is accepted.
continualism believes Prima scriptura, because RHEMA added more insight on the top of existing exegesis.
Some people call it eisegesis

you cannot use cessationism thinking to validate continualist mindset. what you have is giving old wine to new patch.
you cannot use continualist thinking to convince cessationism mindset. what you have is giving new wine to old patch.

-- your question is below --
Your question: Who said , Grace covers all of the law of Moses ?, It will have different reply from me, because i will answer depends on your mindset :D... yes, your mindset will determine my answers.

-- footnote --

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessationism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuationism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessationism_versus_continuationism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_scriptura
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prima_scriptura
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exegesis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisegesis
 

Do you hold that Eisegesis is a valid way of interpreting scripture?

 

[de1929]

4 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

Do you hold that Eisegesis is a valid way of interpreting scripture?

 

not really. It has to have bible verse as well

[Willa]

Romans 4:3  For what does does the Scripture says?  Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 

Romans 4:23-25  NKJV Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, but also for us.  It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses,, and was raised because of our justification.

Romans 5:1  NKJV Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Galatians 3:3  ESV Are you so foolish?  Having begun by the Spirit are you now being perfected by the flesh? 

Habakkuk 2:4b But the righteous shall live by his faith.

Galatians 5:16,18  But I say ," walk by the Spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh--18 But if your are led by the Spirit you are not under the law.

Eph. 2:8-10  For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.  For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Selah!  We were created in Jesus for good works.  We will not feel fulfilled unles we walk in them.  It is for that purpose that we were saved!  But they are accomplished as we walk by faith following the Holy Spirit's direction as confirmed in God's Word.  

 

 

[de1929]

10 hours ago, Willa said:

Romans 4:3  For what does does the Scripture says?  Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 

Romans 4:23-25  NKJV Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, but also for us.  It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses,, and was raised because of our justification.

Romans 5:1  NKJV Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Galatians 3:3  ESV Are you so foolish?  Having begun by the Spirit are you now being perfected by the flesh? 

Habakkuk 2:4b But the righteous shall live by his faith.

Galatians 5:16,18  But I say ," walk by the Spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh--18 But if your are led by the Spirit you are not under the law.

Eph. 2:8-10  For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.  For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Selah!  We were created in Jesus for good works.  We will not feel fulfilled unles we walk in them.  It is for that purpose that we were saved!  But they are accomplished as we walk by faith following the Holy Spirit's direction as confirmed in God's Word.  

 

 

are you from word-of-faith movements ? i remembered Kenneth Copeland when i saw some of your verses.... 

Edited January 20, 2016 by de1929

[other one]

It's rather tacky to laugh at someone for thier beliefs.....   especially if they are different than yours.

 

you really need to hang around and read for a while to get to know people here before laughing at them

[de1929]

19 minutes ago, other one said:

It's rather tacky to laugh at someone for thier beliefs.....   especially if they are different than yours.

 

you really need to hang around and read for a while to get to know people here before laughing at them

wow... thanks... you see my blindspot 

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 7:43 AM, other one said:

No I would tell you that the ten commandments are not in effect because Jesus replaced them with two.    And if you follow the two you will not break any of the ten, but the ten won't get you to heaven.    None of the old covenant pertained to eternity.  Only this physical life.

But if the ten were still in effect, then i would say that we are doomed for Jesus plead guilty to working on the Sabbath.

 

When you say that they are avoided by grace, that is misleading....  unless you have allowed Jesus to come into your life and let him be your Lord, and follow the commandments that He Jesus gave us, I say you do not have grace.

But if you do follow Jesus's commandments you will not have any trouble with the ten commandments....    if you lead of life of holiness, you are keeping the sabbath holy, and every other day.

What day did Jesus take off????     Even at age 14 he was in the synagogue doing the work of his Father.

 

What you guys are doing going back to the old law  is dangerous to believers.

Well done Other One ,the Two commandments He gave us  two commandments,"Love the Lord thy God  with all your heart ,and your neighbour as yourself .

Yes ,these two cover all of the 10 of the O.T.  I believe Jesus was teaching us How to be a Christian in our hearts ,in everyday life ,and that  the legalism of trying to remember the rules actually puts a stumbling block to Love . Instead we have a List to be consulted .

When we follow the two commandments it becomes automatic to us to behave and think like God's children . Jesus knew that Rule followers are dangerous, for the Love of God and their fellow beings, is not engraved by the Holy Spirit on theirsouls ,as yet . They see themselves as Superior ,but this is an outward show .

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎05‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 1:01 AM, firestormx said:

Sinnersaved,

Hello, and God bless you

This will most likely be a long post.

 I don't post much anymore, but still read and frequent the forums quite often. I have been seeing you post a lot on similar issues such as this one and had it pressed upon me to try to post my understanding of this that we might both be drawn closer to Jesus. I think the problem with this post is the same problem we have in most churches and with most Christians. A lack of understanding of the crucifixion and the new testament and a lack of ability to explain it. I am not expert by any means in explaining this. But I will try to address your statement as I understand it. I hope we will both be drawn closer to God and Jesus as a result.

 

 We should start this post with salvation. Believe it or not understanding salvation is very important to understanding this issue. Salvation = A right standing with God. That is the simplest meaning I know to give of salvation. We have a right standing with God because of Jesus Christ. We keep a right standing with God because of Jesus Christ. Period. That's the end of it. We as christians have and keep a right standing with God because of Jesus. Nothing I say or do on my own will ever place me in a right standing with God. Likewise, nothing I ever say or do will maintain or keep me in a right standing with God. If I do something to achieve or maintain a right standing with God, then I can take credit for part of it. My works or actions can never achieve or maintain a right standing with God. A right standing with God is only achieved and maintained by faith through grace in Jesus Christ. 

 But what about our works you may ask. Well that is actually really simple to. When Jesus and Jesus alone puts us in and keeps us in a right standing with God, then Jesus is placing in a position of being righteous or holy in him. See being Holy = being set apart by God for God. It really is that simple. That is also why we can't achieve being Holy apart from God. God and God alone has to place us in that position of Holiness. That is accomplished only in Jesus. What does this have to do with works? Simple, When we are placed in and maintained in a right standing with God by Jesus Christ, then We are made Holy or righteous by him. We are set apart by God for God. When that happens in someone's life, their will always be evidence of it. There words and actions should start changing and conforming over time to be more and more like Jesus. To use a biblical analogy. Jesus is the gardener, we are the tree. If we have been planted by Jesus in God's garden then we will produce the fruit that a tree in God's garden should produce. When we start producing fruit, what kind of fruit we produce or anything else about the fruit we produce, doesn't change that it was the gardener that planted us in God's garden and keeps us there. Likewise, It is Jesus who places us in and keeps us in a right standing with God. Once we are in that right standing with God there should be evidence in our words and actions and life. But no matter what change or evidence is produced in our lives of being in a right standing with God, it will never change the fact that it is Jesus who places us in and keeps us in a right standing with God. See, that is the grace you keep hearing about. Jesus places us in a right standing with God and keeps or maintains us in a right standing with God even though we don't deserve it and never will. 

 Now that all that is said I can address the Law of Moses, the Crucifixion and the old and new testaments. Now I am not trying to do anything other than a simple break down of this, nothing fancy. In simple terms, most of the Law of Moses can be broken down into 3 parts. The sacrificial, the ceremonial and the moral law. I will try to simplify each one to address your post one by one to show that most Christians are not just hiding behind grace or picking and choosing what to follow.

 The sacrificial law was everything in the law of Moses about sacrificing to God. Why did we need to sacrifice animals to God? Simply put, because the bible says without the shedding of blood there can be no remission or forgiveness of sin. So the purpose of animal sacrifice was so there could be forgiveness of our sin. In the old testament they had to sacrifice animals over and over again to achieve this. In the new testament the sacrifice of Jesus of the cross achieved the same thing forever. See, Jesus shed blood was enough to fulfill God's never changing requirement for shed blood for the forgiveness of sin, forever. So all the stuff in the old testament Law of Moses about sacrificing was not destroyed or done away with. It is fulfilled in Jesus.

 The ceremonial law is everything in the old testament and law of Moses about being holy and righteous. It covers everything in the old testament and law of Moses about how the priests and people had to prepare to be in God's presence, to ritual baths, not eating pork, not wearing mixed fabric and on and on. See, the simple and never changing requirement of God that was behind all these principles was be Holy for your God in heaven is Holy. In the new testament ( as I have covered above ) we are made holy and put in a right standing with God by Jesus. Nothing we do or say makes us holy. Only Jesus can do that. Remember what Jesus told Peter, what Jesus makes clean is completely and totally clean. So once again, it is not that all the things above in the old testament law of Moses have been destroyed or done away with. Rather it was fulfilled with a better and permanent solution. Jesus Christ. 

 The final of the 3 is the moral law. This is your 10 commandments, homosexuality and things like that. See they taught people in the old testament law of Moses that once you physically committed the sin of like adultery for example then you received the punishment as outlined in the law. But only after you physically committed the sin. See, everything in all 3 main aspects of the Law had this one thing in common, it was about what you did or didn't do. Your works. Whether YOU kept the law. What YOU had or had not done. But when Jesus come he flipped this on them. He taught, that if you looked at someone in lust, just looked. then you had already committed adultery with them. See, this was always God's standard. The heart and the motive is always where God has looked. Want proof? Go look in the the story of Noah and the flood. In that story you will read where God says when he looked at man that he had created that " the thoughts and intents of his HEART were evil continually " . It has always been the standard or requirement of God that he looks at the heart and/or our motive. When he sent the Prophet to Jessie's house to find a king for Israel , what did God tell the Prophet when he looked upon Jessie's sons?  " you look upon the physical but I look inwards at the heart of man'.

 See, Jesus taught us to look beyond just do's and don't and to seek the heart of the matter. It is not about Just, don't commit adultery. But a condition of lust in the heart that only God can deal with. And That is what most here have been trying to say. It is God's grace upon us, whom doesn't deserve it, to be changed and conformed to his image, first inside and then overflowing unto the outside for the whole world to see. We have been placed in a right standing with God , we are being kept in a right standing with God because of Jesus Christ. How is that not Grace? 

 

Firestormx

Joseph

Thankyou for your clear  exposition  . It is very helpful , explained in  a charitable manner . No going round in circles .