FINDING COMMON GROUND IN DANIEL

[Serving]

On Tuesday, 19 January 2016 at 2:05 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Serving,

You explained yourself there, bro. And it`s good to see why you think that. Now we need to get some facts straight.

1. The `thrones.` (Dan. 7: 9)

`I watched till thrones were put in place...` (NKJ) `

`I kept looking until thrones were set up...` (NAS)

Those `thrones,` are related to the `court was seated,` (v. 10) This is the pictorial representation of the High Court of heaven with the Lord, the Ancient of Days, the great multitude of angels & the heavenly court about to pronounce judgment upon the `world system.`

 

2. The 10 kings. (Dan. 7: 24)

`The 10 horns are 10 kings...` (NKJ)

Now bro, no where does God call those kings, `beasts.` That would make 14 beasts & it is just NOT there. These 10 kings are on the 4th beast, as you noted too. However they are NOT 10 beasts. They are a multiple leadership of the 4th beast.

 

You are trying to fit God`s word into your thoughts. It`s good that you are trying to think `outside the box` but in doing that we need to look at what God`s word actually says. Now I just read your post again & realise you have `round 2` coming up, so let`s hear that too. And yes we all need to be heard right through our thoughts, so go for it bro.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi M,

I know how it looks, and I like the polite way you put it too  .. let me try once more now I've gotten some z's under my belt ..

Notice Rev 13:2

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

There is your Lion/Leopard/Bear connection to Daniel .. BUT .. UNLIKE Daniel, these attributes are all on ONE BEAST .. again .. ONE BEAST has these attributes ..

And since ONE BEAST shares these attributes etc, then the other beasts of Daniel can not be modern contemporaries as in OTHER BEASTS BESIDES that ONE beast above .. because Rev 13:2 reveals the MODERN beast as ONE and not separate and COMPETING beasts like in Daniel.

That to me is quite telling and convincing and backing what I was trying to say, though quite poorly at the time I must admit.

[Serving]

Hi Marilyn,

Keeping this important verse in mind ..

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Notice Rev 13:2

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

There is your Lion/Leopard/Bear connection to Daniel .. BUT .. UNLIKE Daniel, these attributes are all on ONE BEAST .. again .. ONE BEAST has these attributes ..

And since ONE BEAST shares these attributes etc, then the other beasts of Daniel can not be modern contemporaries as in OTHER BEASTS BESIDES that ONE beast above .. because Rev 13:2 reveals the MODERN beast as ONE and not separate and COMPETING beasts like in Daniel.

I just want to add a few more insights to my position ..

Daniel reveals, when reading between the lines, that ALL nations are considered beasts metaphorically speaking (which was my point) :

Daniel 8:4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.

Well the He Goat was only fighting the Ram in Daniel, that is SINGULAR meaning ONE beast, there was only ONE OTHER BEAST fighting the He Goat .. BUT in the above .. Daniel said the PLURAL .. Beasts .. meaning, more than one nation/kingdom/beast .. so WHAT other beasts when there was only ONE other beast opponent? .. simply, any other kingdom BESIDES the Ram who could NOT likewise stop Alexander's "He Goat" .. and what did God call all those other nations? .. BEASTS .. plural. (correlating to my statement about the 10 beast empire which counted as ONE beast UNTIL .. UNTIL reverting back to 10 SINGLE BEASTS once more (no more united beast but back to it's parts/individual nations) when Christ destroys THEIR empire at His coming but not all their home populations (lives prolonged).

Now Alexander fought against many beasts (nations) in his conquests, and, indeed, none of them could stand before him (resist/defeat him), and none did .. so this shows I am not forcing my opinion on the verses after all regarding that point concerning beasts but am instead taking other scriptural insights which explain themselves and bringing them into view to complete the OVERALL picture whilst keeping within God's own definitions and not my own as I have just shown for this particular example.

Like when Daniel was concentrating on the last beast which caused him to say this:

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12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Because at the actual 2nd COMING, look at WHICH beast's are present to RESIST the Lord :

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Those beasts.

Now something IMPORTANT to acknowledge now ..

The false prophet UNITES the whole world for a little while under the MARK OF THE BEAST SYSTEM UNTIL certain other nations start to turn against him .. other words, the world order starts to fall apart and divisions form and their collective global unity .. ends .. but not UNTIL they ALL get deceived and receive the MARK OF THE BEAST first.

THAT is WWIII beginning .. The Medes (Iran) and her allies along with the OTHER king of the North (Likely Russia) escalate that division AGAINST the false prophets global order whereby he deceived them ALL with the mark of the beast .. it is ONLY because of the SIGN of the LORD in the heavens that WWIII de-escalates .. WHY? .. because now a 'COMMON GLOBAL THREAT' has emerged .. these 'LIGHTS' in the sky .. (they probably get deceived into thinking the world is under attack by aliens by Satan's lies) .. this STOPS the WWIII (lest no flesh be saved) and unites the world once more, only this time, unbeknown to them at first, this time it is Christ returning of whom they foolishly try to fight.

So again, when this is going down, EVEY BEAST (nation) on earth is gathered together to face this new "threat", which will be Christ Himself.

Which beasts I see here :

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Because EVERY BEAST on earth (all the nations GATHERED TOGETHER) will have their dominions taken away but ALL their lives (surviving HOME populations) will be PROLONGED indeed, except this time, they will be ruled by a ROD OF IRON under Christ during the Millennium as is written.

THAT is the bigger picture I am taking into account and not just Daniel's 'smaller picture' which is but a part of the whole.

Hope that helps.

Thanks Marilyn.

 

[Last Daze]

5 hours ago, Serving said:

Notice Rev 13:2

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

There is your Lion/Leopard/Bear connection to Daniel .. BUT .. UNLIKE Daniel, these attributes are all on ONE BEAST .. again .. ONE BEAST has these attributes ..

And since ONE BEAST shares these attributes etc, then the other beasts of Daniel can not be modern contemporaries as in OTHER BEASTS BESIDES that ONE beast above .. because Rev 13:2 reveals the MODERN beast as ONE and not separate and COMPETING beasts like in Daniel.

That to me is quite telling and convincing and backing what I was trying to say, though quite poorly at the time I must admit.

What if find telling is that this same beast in Daniel 7 did not have seven heads.  The seven heads are uniquely Satan's and represent his throne and authority (crowns on the seven heads).  The fact that the Daniel 7 beast now has seven heads (without crowns) in Rev 13 is, in my view, attributable to the verse above when Satan gave him his power, throne and great authority.  The new symbolism of the seven heads reflects that "transfer".  It would also stand to reason that the symbolism of the other three beasts of Daniel 7 being seen in the Rev 13 beast are for the same reason.

Then there's the question of "why?"  Why would Satan ever give his power, throne, and great authority to anyone?  Seeing how the beast from the earth (false prophet) speaks like a dragon and exalts himself above any object of worship, its likely for the reason of indwelling the false prophet and using him as a channel for displays of supernatural power (in the presence of the beast).  Satan transfers his power, throne, and authority to the beast, enters the false prophet, then uses what he transferred to deceive the world into worshipping him.  So, the short answer as to "why" is likely because entering a human has its limitations.

[Serving]

Hi Daze,

 

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What if find telling is that this same beast in Daniel 7 did not have seven heads.

Yes very correct .. that is because it is but ONE of the 7 heads being observed .. the one which gets healed which healing turns it into the 8th BUT is OF the 7...(th) .. the brackets is what I understand is God's real meaning subtly & purposely put.

Like the 1st beast of Rev 13 .. verse 1 identifies the owner (Satan's 7 headed empire) .. BUT the very next verse, v2, mentions ONE beast too .. notice it has a mouth of a lion .. NOT mouths (plural) as would be expected if he were speaking of the mouths of it's 7 heads, but singular, so John is beholding one head too just like Daniel's images came singularly up as well.

Each beast (head) is an empire correlating to the 7 heads (empires) allotted to Satan.

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The seven heads are uniquely Satan's and represent his throne and authority (crowns on the seven heads).

Precisely .. it is like his emblem, like his seal of ownership, like his identifying logo/image, Satan's 7 main empires allotted to him by God .. like a clock we can count down with, until the last heads emergence .. otherwise, how could we watch with any depth of certainty .. also since we all know that Satan in reality only has ONE head on his own shoulders, the 7 heads stand for what is his in my opinion.

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The fact that the Daniel 7 beast now has seven heads (without crowns) in Rev 13 is, in my view, attributable to the verse above when Satan gave him his power, throne and great authority.  The new symbolism of the seven heads reflects that "transfer".  It would also stand to reason that the symbolism of the other three beasts of Daniel 7 being seen in the Rev 13 beast are for the same reason.

Precisely, and their (10 horns) power (crowning) only comes when the last head (beast of Rev 13:2) gets healed .. and .. worshipped by the world.

I put forth that he other beasts ATTRIBUTES (from Daniel 7) that are found in this last beast itself all rolled into one in Rev 13 .. meaning, this beast is proud like a Lion, strong and powerful as a Bear, swift like a Leopards surprise attacks (blitzkriegs) .. mightier than all those past beasts whose strengths are rolled into one mighty last days beast where it is said, "who can wage war with the beast".

Quote

Then there's the question of "why?"  Why would Satan ever give his power, throne, and great authority to anyone?  Seeing how the beast from the earth (false prophet) speaks like a dragon and exalts himself above any object of worship, its likely for the reason of indwelling the false prophet and using him as a channel for displays of supernatural power (in the presence of the beast).  Satan transfers his power, throne, and authority to the beast, enters the false prophet, then uses what he transferred to deceive the world into worshipping him.  So, the short answer as to "why" is likely because entering a human has its limitations.

  I see it as a channelling of power .. Satan always works through men, granted .. but this wicked man to come is different as you know, he is the literal 'son of perdition' .. what if he really is literally Satan's son? (Many testimonies of Satanist's having sex with entities by the priesthood of Satan .. it is not beyond possibility .. The fallen angels had children with men and conceived, Satan was too smart to bring down God's wrath on that GIGANTIC NO-NO .. but now at the end what would he care? He knows he's done for anyway)

 

[Serving]

"And the kingdom shall be divided"

I see this period (feet and toes) as those nations who ONCE were part of the Roman Empire going their "own ways" for a time UNTIL reunification into a modern 'format' of that old empire. Not being the Roman Empire itself, but a modern version based on it's principles and laws etc where some middle east countries are also likely involved.

Look at the British Empire, her kings & queens held the title "of the Holy Roman Empire" up til the 1500 - 1600's if I recall correctly .. just because they dropped the title because of unpopularity, doesn't take away from the fact that they were once part of the empire .. overseen by Rome for nearly 600-900 years from memory.

And the Austrian Empire had that title too, so did the German Empire so too the Poles .. etc etc etc .. ALL the royal houses of Europe did, and they all went their separate ways (Kingdom was DIVIDED) to make their own glory after Rome fell .. a time of DIVISION as Daniel alludes to indeed.

But the time will come where only 10 nations will join together (heal the division/wound) under that old 'banner' or revamped SYSTEM of senate & Caesar .. senate = the 10 kings, Caesar = the false prophet.

And that system goes global with the mark of the beast as the 'seal' of acceptance for to become one of her 'global citizens' (citizens is another ROMAN term btw) until God causes them to turn on each other to begin WWIII (peace and safety NO MORE) before the warring parties make a truce to fight this approaching light in the sky ..

Imagine what Christ AND His angels (who ALL GLOW with light) would look like from ground level .. they'd look like ORBS of light till they got close enough .. perfect to rally the nations together and stop WWIII before nuclear obliteration, I mean after generations of programming us with aliens and the like .. Satan will have no trouble deceiving the marked world into believing earth was under attack by aliens .. Christ's appearance stops WWIII .. THAT is HOW He cuts it short .. by His mere appearing in our atmosphere before descending over Megiddo.

Just some points.

 

[Last Daze]

24 minutes ago, Serving said:

Hi Daze,

I see it as a channelling of power .. Satan always works through men, granted .. but this wicked man to come is different as you know, he is the literal 'son of perdition' .. what if he really is literally Satan's son?

 

Satan has already entered the son of perdition once, before Christ's crucifixion.  I think he will enter him again.

•  Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon.  Revelation 13:11

Hmmmm.  Two horns.

[Serving]

7 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Satan has already entered the son of perdition once, before Christ's crucifixion.  I think he will enter him again.

•  Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon.  Revelation 13:11

Hmmmm.  Two horns.

LOL .. Hmmmmm indeed .. my friends and I have kicked around that idea in the past that WHAT IF Judas himself actually gets raised in the flesh to be this man?

Nothing we dared preach on, because it's only speculation, but not beyond possibility either .. I don't usually bring it up but there are some added possibilities rather than the 2 horns meaning just one thing (secular & spiritual leader), we have considered an added duality for those TWO horns for sure.

 

 

[other one]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

 

So, the short answer as to "why" is likely because entering a human has its limitations.

 I can't see him doing that....   ever.

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, other one said:

 I can't see him doing that....   ever.

He already has.

• And Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot, belonging to the number of the twelve.  Luke 22:3

I guess it depends on the circumstances.

[other one]

9 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

He already has.

• And Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot, belonging to the number of the twelve.  Luke 22:3

I guess it depends on the circumstances.

Ok, I can't see him doing that again....   ever.