Daniel 8

[Kan]

6 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

Hmm you will need to be a bit more convincing than that. A 3.5 year period, starting with the abomination which is when the anichrist comes to power, and ending with the second coming.... kinda explains most 3.5 year periods.   42 months, 1260 days, time, times and half a time.   They all fit in well with this "great tribulation" timeframe.

I don't want to convince you, I want you to do the exercises yourself, and then talk about it. You have to try and apply yourself to work outside of the framework you are familiar with, otherwise you have not genuinely tested the theories.

If you are on the right track then this application will only confirm the truth, but you have to be able to be objective and honest, because at the moment there is something you are blocking off in your head.

For example, the death of Christ has to be the pivotal point in the time frames of Daniel. If you apply that in days then you end up with Christ turning up a couple of years after Daniel had the vision. But we know that even Christ applied these in years, as He predicted the downfall of Jerusalem to His disciples some 490 years later.

The central part of Daniel 8 is the question of the sanctuary, not the one on earth as Daniel first thought, but the one that represents the ministry of Christ in heaven. With the trib theories you miss out on all of that, and none of the times in Daniel fit in or lock in. All you end up with is some unknown event in the future, when it is too late to be helped by Christ's ministry by faith. 

[Spock]

I would be interested in reading your take on this article pertaining to Daniel 8:. Thanks.

http://endtimepilgrim.org/daniel-8.htm

[Ezra]

7 hours ago, Spock said:

I would be interested in reading your take on this article pertaining to Daniel 8:. Thanks.

http://endtimepilgrim.org/daniel-8.htm

I'm a little concerned about his "Blood Covenant" theology.

[ARGOSY]

On 2/23/2016 at 11:34 PM, Kan said:

I don't want to convince you, I want you to do the exercises yourself, and then talk about it. You have to try and apply yourself to work outside of the framework you are familiar with, otherwise you have not genuinely tested the theories.

If you are on the right track then this application will only confirm the truth, but you have to be able to be objective and honest, because at the moment there is something you are blocking off in your head.

For example, the death of Christ has to be the pivotal point in the time frames of Daniel. If you apply that in days then you end up with Christ turning up a couple of years after Daniel had the vision. But we know that even Christ applied these in years, as He predicted the downfall of Jerusalem to His disciples some 490 years later.

The central part of Daniel 8 is the question of the sanctuary, not the one on earth as Daniel first thought, but the one that represents the ministry of Christ in heaven. With the trib theories you miss out on all of that, and none of the times in Daniel fit in or lock in. All you end up with is some unknown event in the future, when it is too late to be helped by Christ's ministry by faith. 

Lol, I'm blocking nothing in my head. Yes Daniel "Sevens" were seven year periods. This is what a seven is. It can also be seven days. So the word "seven" had a dual meaning. Jews had 7 sevens (49 years) then a Jubilee year. This made up a 50 year period. Maybe you are trying to say that Daniel used a day=year system, but I am saying that was a year=year system.    I am not denying that a day=year system is possible. It's just whenever the specific 3.5 year period is mentioned it overlaps so well with the great tribulation why then look for symbolic days when literal days work perfectly well? 

What exercises would you like me to do? Believe me I have been studying this 3.5 year period for years, in depth, and all of them fit into the great tribulation. Daniel 7, Daniel 9:27, Daniel 12, Matthew 24, Rev 11, Rev 12, Rev 13. 

[ARGOSY]

8 hours ago, Spock said:

I would be interested in reading your take on this article pertaining to Daniel 8:. Thanks.

http://endtimepilgrim.org/daniel-8.htm

I agree with the identity of the little horn as coming from the Seleucids.  Regarding the Western nature of the little horn of Daniel 7 and the king of Daniel 11, it does make a bit of sense but for different reasons to that article. The goat remains Greece, it would be incorrect to then associate the goat with Europe. Daniel 11 the "king of the North" is specifically a Seleucid king, modern day Syria.  BUT these Seleucid kings were Greeks, NOT local Syrians.  So the identity of the antichrist as associated with the king of the North in Daniel 11 remains confusing.  I often think he will be a Kurdish Jew but of Rothschild (German/Khazak) bloodlines. (a hybrid)

[Sister]

On 19/2/2016 at 6:34 AM, Kan said:

 

Hi Kan

Quote

!. Babylon, 2. Persia, 3. Greece, 4. Rome. Rome is the fourth beast.

It's not a biggie, but this needs to be cleaned up.

Daniel was under the rule of Babylon at the time of this prophecy.  The 4 beasts that were to come after Babylon are these "Kings";

1. Medes (Darius) - The Lion.  He was humbled when he had his wings clipped. (Dan 6:25-26)

2. Persia (Last king/4th King) - The Bear holding 3 ribs in his mouth. This is the 4th King.  The 3 ribs are the 3 kings before him. (Dan 11:2)

3. Greecia (Alexander) the Leopard. (Dan 11:3)

Out of one of Alexanders 4 generals, a mighty empire sprang up.  Rome is not mentioned here because she has had too many kings to mention, so it skips to latter day Rome, which is not Rome back then, but a new type of Rome, mixed (iron and clay).  The Rome we have today.  The British empire came out of Rome's roots.  The vatican is just part of her system, mingled with her, but not all of her.  The British empire signed the Balfour declaration for Israel to be made a state again in 1948.  This empire plays a very important role in the making of history however Britains power is never mentioned, I wonder why that is?  Everyone always pointing the finger elsewhere?, and cannot see the snake in the grass.

4. The King of the last empire will arise (The False Prophet)

Edited February 29, 2016 by Sister
gave scripture for verification

[Sister]

Argossy
 

Quote

 

I don't see how the 8 kingdoms of Rev 17 would contradict the 4 kingdoms of Dan2/Dan 7.   I see the 8 kingdoms as representing all great Middle Eastern powers since the flood:

Egypt

Assyria

Babylon

Persia

Greece

ROME

PAPAL/TURKISH ROME (two powers, the two feet of Rome)

TURKISH/ISRAEL ROME (with the support of the Pope)

 

You see Greece and Rome also as representing great Middle Eastern powers?  How is that?  I see them as representing Europe, the North.

[Sister]

Quote

1. Babylon

2. Persia

3. Greece

4. Rome

5. Papal Rome

6. America on the rise

7. The French revolution (see Rev 11) the beginning of Communism which goes world wide in the end through socialism. 

8. The last world empire (the scarlet or red beast)- socialist world turns 'Christian.' ("if possible to deceive the very elect") "The beast which was" (communist/athiest) "and is not" (Christian) "and yet is" (communist style religious enforcement through the mark of the beast)." The old whore rides this beast.

Kan.

Please take another look at this brother.  If we go out in the beginning, the end will be wrong too.

No. 1 is Egypt.  Israel were captives of this empire before being freed.

2. Assyria  (Egypt and Assyria not mentioned in Daniels vision of the Statue because the head started at Babylon.

3.  Babylon

4. Medo-Persia (combined, ...the arms)

5. Greccia

6.  Rome

7. Latter day Rome (Iron and Clay) - British Empire.  Includes the USA for she came out of Britain and still pays royalties.  They are brothers.

8. New World Order starts - same empire as above, but morphs into a new system.

 

The four beasts of Daniel 7:3 are not in the above order.  They start AFTER Babylon, and mention the Kings involved who would come.

1. Darius the Mede

2. The fourth king of Persia (the last king)

3. Alexander

4. The False Prophet (It had ten horns - they are connected)

Rome is not mentioned as No. 4, because it's the future Rome mentioned instead.  The modern day Rome,  Not old Rome, because the remnants of Rome is in that fourth beast.

 

[TrevorL]

4 hours ago, Sister said:

It's not a biggie, but this needs to be cleaned up.

Daniel was under the rule of Babylon at the time of this prophecy.  The 4 beasts that were to come after Babylon are these "Kings";

1. Medes (Darius) - The Lion.  He was humbled when he had his wings clipped. (Dan 6:25-26)

2. Persia (Last king/4th King) - The Bear holding 3 ribs in his mouth. This is the 4th King.  The 3 ribs are the 3 kings before him. (Dan 11:2)

3. Greecia (Alexander) the Leopard. (Dan 11:3)

Greetings "Sister",
Have you compared the four kingdoms of Daniel 7 represented by four beasts with the four kingdoms of Daniel 2 represented by the four successive metals of the image?

Daniel 2:37-40 (KJV): 37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold. 39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. 40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Sister]

38 minutes ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings "Sister",
Have you compared the four kingdoms of Daniel 7 represented by four beasts with the four kingdoms of Daniel 2 represented by the four successive metals of the image?

Daniel 2:37-40 (KJV): 37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold. 39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. 40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

Hi TrevorL

Yes Daniel 2 is the key to unlocking who all these beasts are, mentioned throughout other parts of Daniel.  This is our base point, with our definitions in Chapter 8 giving more detail.

The head is Babylon.  God was showing King Neb his kingdom wasn't going last forever, and that others would move in.  Neb wouldn't of understood because it's future for him.  We however are shown all the way to the last empire, the one that will be destroyed and can attest now that all this happened and was true.

With the "metals", I can see;

....each metal that comes after the Gold is lesser in value, but stronger.  Then we get to the toes and it's iron and clay which doesn't go together, but they mix.   The iron represents the remnants and strength of Rome (their governing system and military strength) and the clay stands for the weaker parts, but who are they?