Who is The 7th Kingdom Beast (and 8th) of Rev?

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

"By peace he shall destroy many:" is not the same as your belief that he will come to power through peace. There is no connection here. This could be and likely is, a reference to the treaty for peace in Israel for 7 years. After which, when the treaty is broken, the beast destroys many.

 

I just want to say, I respect you immensely and you are very intelligent about many subjects. So let us continue in our disagreements cordially. Back and forth's between brothers is how I learn. I read all of your posts, which is why it takes me a while to reply. 

By Peace he destroys many, this seems obvious to me that this man offers Peace and Security to many. You see, anyone like Hitler coming forth now, would not gain the peoples confidence unless they lied like Hitler did when he came forth., The bible says basically he will be a charmer who gets deals done. I agree the "Peace" referred to in Daniel chapter 8 is speaking about the offering of many things and offering  "Security" unto many, thus it rally means by Security he destroys many...........#7962.-שַׁלְוָה shalvah (1017c); from 7951; quietness, ease:—NASB - complacency(1), ease(2), prosperity(2), quietness(1), time of tranquility(2).

From H7951; security (genuine or false):—abundance, peace (-ably), prosperity, quietness.

So what does Daniel mean in chapter 8 when he says by Peace he destroys many ? It means he tricks them into letting their guard down, feeling at ease, feeling secure and tranquil etc. all. He makes a Covenant (Agreement) with Israel, well it doesn't take too much thought to figure out that this agreement is brought forth to trick Israel and some others into letting their Guards down. So it is the promise of FALSE SECURITY, which is basically the same as Peace. 

But I flash the ole Logic sign again. If this man came to power in Europe (my opinion) by conquering or warring his way to power, would Israel, or anyone else trust this man with their "Security" ? See my point ? He has to be peaceful for 3 1/2 years, until he gains enough dictatorial powers, until many let their guard down, then BOOM he is going to hit very fast. If he came to power via War, he would never be trusted. No one in the West would trust a Muslim anyway.

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

.(No, he comes to power through the healed head wound when the world is in awe and wonders who can war against him.) Islam didn't come into being until circa, the year 700 AD, and without Israel (Jews)(You are mistaken, there were Jews in Israel during Muslim rule. According to this source:  "Timeline for the History of Judaism - Medieval Period in the West". Jewish Virtual Library. Retrieved 9 November 2013. almost 150,000 Jews were living in Israel in 638 A.D. when the Muslims captured the city.) in the Land, no Beast could rule Israel,(Clearly this makes the case for Germany as a ruling power over Israel, and outside the 6 you mentioned, challenge met, twice.

This Head Wound is only the Roman Empire being healed, imho, now this is a guess and this Man of Sin/Anti-Christ could be wounded or killed and brought back to life.

You are getting TOO TECHNICAL again, God turned his back on Israel, Ezekiel speaks about how the Bones are Dead, they are no more !! Then God tells Ezekiel he is going to bring the Bones back to Life, make them Speak again. In the Last Days. The Valley of Dry Bones Prophecy says Israel is Dead, and God raises them back to life in the Last Days. Israel was no more as a Country basically after about 70 AD or a little afterwards. There are probably some people camping out in Old Babylon also, but God says it will never again be inhabited. Jesus said in Luke that Jerusalem would be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled. In 1948 Israel became a Nation again and in 1967 Israel took over Jerusalem in the Six Days War.

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

(I see. pretty insulting. So anyone who disagrees with you on this point is neither logical,(a demeaning comment) nor a thinking person. Totally insulting.)

You don't see....I said in my opinion. IMHO. I try to go back and soften each post so as not to hurt peoples feelings, but when so much is written, sometimes things come through as coarse, I could mention three or four sentences by you that came off the same way, after all we are advocates for our positions, but I will not take umbrage at a few sentences. 

 

A few of your quotes: 

 You know how Satan thinks? Scary.  

I think this all has to be one of the strangest understandings of the scriptures in this area I have ever heard. Where are you learning this ?

No matter what the identity of the little horn cannot ever be defined as Rome or Roman.

You should really read what you post cause the next two verses dispute your claim. 

I see you're stuck in the same thinking the rest of the various religious communities suffer: secular interpretation of spiritual truths.

Any assertion to the contrary is meaningless. This one statement alone rules out any existing coalition of nations that have leaders exercising their own power. This means the EU is out of consideration.

{{ You see my point ? Don't take things too personal }} /

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

It's not logic. Muslims were great leaders and ruled over the know world for centuries. Their advancements in medicine, science, architecture, education have shaped the world as we know it today. There are almost 2 billion Muslims and dozens of Muslim countries where Muslim leaders are not only trusted but demanded. So not only are you insulting on a personal level but apparently to a third of the world as well. The USA has a Muslim president. Turkey. All Mideast countries. Indonesia, etc.

Believe me, I know all about Muslim culture, and their accomplishments. But what do you see now ? Pretty much behind the times peoples, many who are so crazy they will blow others up who do not think like them. Iraq was BAD, we slammed them in about a week in 1991. These guys are nothing. They will never be a great power, because the last Great Beast System is via the RRE as Daniel chapter 7 says. 

Edited September 29, 2016 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

Either you are bringing the highest created being down to your level, or you are saying you understand the mind of an inter-dimensional, eternal being with god like power. Both are incomprehensible and irresponsible.

 

Just the opposite Brother. I am saying if I understand a "Checkmate" move, then a Grand Master Chess player would see the same move I see much easier. So if I see the logic of how the Anti-Christ should come forth, I know Satan is far smarter than me, but not as Holy in Christ Jesus Amen !! And God reveals many things to His Servants.

 

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

Really? I challenge you to a game. I'm Diaste on chess with friends and on FICS Please, challenge me.

 

I once won a tourney with like a 1000 people in it, but I haven't played in 25 years, I could play you, and challenge you no doubt, but I really have things to do I consider more important, like my many message boards. I used to play a little maybe 15 years ago on Yahoo, but to me its not the same as a Live game. But I will play.....But it just doesn't thrill me like it used to.  I signed up on the FICS but have never got an e-mail yet....

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

What? Satan is going to subjugate the world and try to kill everyone and destroy the earth. everybody knows this. Satan is going to do it anyway. He is going to do exactly what God says and what everyone knows. 

But he is not going to do it in a way that allows people to see whats coming until it is too late. Of course we Christians will not be here anyway. Just like you sucker people into a Checkmate by offering them "CANDY" LOL.

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

This is only because you don't read the scriptures. You are convinced the beast will come to power through natural means and this is just not the case. The beast is going to die horribly and be brought back to life, an all but impossible resurrection. This will cause the world to worship the beast, and the dragon that gives life back to the beast. Boom! Dictator for life. It's not up to the leaders of the world to bestow power on a man who later becomes the beast. This guy is already the beast and his death and miraculous healing, and impossible resurrection garner both the awe and adoration, and fear, of the dragon and the beast. So put all that in bowl, stir well, let sit for a day or two and Viola! Instant world Dictator. 

I will not be here, I will be in Heaven marrying the LAMB. But I believe he will be an Assyrian, born in Greece, of Turkish parents or Grandparents, he will come to power in a small nation (Greece) then ascend to the European Union Presidency. This is my belief. What can I say ?

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

You cannot possibly know this to a certainty. You're assuming. Wildly

Its pretty obvious to me, there are so many that are fanatical now (10 Percent of 2 Billion is 200,000) that I just do not think Satan will not see his needed Chess Move. He will subjugate them, take their oil, and make them make a peace deal with Israel, when he breaks the agreements, he will seek to destroy all Religions. After all, HE THINKS HE IS GOD !!

[Eoreris]

The 8th king will be (Wondered at) when they behold him.. (The media mainly)  - There is a man now being analyzed and wondered about more than any man in known history. His only purpose is to win the kingdom (Without honor) and to put together a massive coalition of nations armies (Including his own) and fight the return of Jesus christ

[ARGOSY]

On 9/29/2016 at 2:17 AM, Revelation Man said:

 

Believe me, I know all about Muslim culture, and their accomplishments. But what do you see now ? Pretty much behind the times peoples, many who are so crazy they will blow others up who do not think like them. Iraq was BAD, we slammed them in about a week in 1991. These guys are nothing. They will never be a great power, because the last Great Beast System is via the RRE as Daniel chapter 7 says. 

The final kingdom is described in Daniel 2.   The legs of iron are Rome, Rome split into two capitals being ROME and ISTANBUL.  It is these two "feet" that have dominated the Middle east for centuries and will continue to do so. 

Istanbul will rise again because the timeline of Daniel 2 is unbroken showing the continued power of both Istanbul and Rome.

This is happening through the Pope/bankers using the USA to send its armies into the Middle East to ruin all countries not already under the control of western bankers. In this way the west is supporting their NATO buddy Turkey to control the Middle East just like the bible predicts.  Countries already tied into the western banking system like Saudi and Jordan are left alone in these wars.

http://www.turkishislamicunion.com/

Istanbul arises....................................

 

[douggg]

On 9/28/2016 at 4:17 PM, Revelation Man said:

Show me where, I stated the Assyrian is going to be the Anti-Christ. In Rev, 17 we see that the Seven Heads of the Beast are the Seven Powers that Conquered Israel. In Daniel he only mentions Four Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome, along with a Little Horn or Anti-Christ that arises with 10 Kings out of the Fourth Beast at the End Times, so that is Five in total, from Daniels time. The Dream was from DANIELS and Nebuchadnezzar's time. If God had wanted to have shown Nebuchadnezzar and Daniel the full picture, he could have shown them two more Beasts, (Egypt and Assyria) but WHY WOULD HE ? Why did He need to ? Then God would have had to explained Six Kingdoms, with Babylon being the Third instead of the First, this was not something God felt was relevant. Neither do I, the Seven Headed Beast was explained to us in Revelation 13 and 17.

It's because the 7 kings are not 7 kingdoms.    The premise of the thread is flawed.     There are only 4 kingdoms.     And 7 kings of the fourth kingdom.

 

The Assyrian is a referral, imo, to Nimrod, who is the disembodied spirit in the bottomless pit called "the beast".  

 

Separately, the end times person who starts as the little horn is the 7th king of Julio-Claudians, of the Roman empire, the fourth empire, head of the EU.     Then he becomes the prince who shall come following Gog/Magog.   Then is received by the Jews as their messiah, anointed the King of Israel, by the false prophet.     Then betrays Israel and turns against God, goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God.    The Jews reject him from continuing as their King of Israel, ending his time as the Antichrist.

God is angered by his audacious act and has him killed, Ezekiel 28:1-10.    The person finds himself in hell, in Isaiah 14, mocked.    God, in disdain for the person doesn't let him rest there, but cast him out of the grave, Isaiah14: 18-20, because as a Jew he betrays his land (the covenant made by God at Sinai) and his people Israel.

Brought back to life, the person is possessed by the unclean spirit of Nimrod, the beast currently in the bottomless pit, associated with the tower of babel, and rebellion against God.    After the person is cast out of the grave, because he betrays his land and his people, the switch is to calling him the Assyrian because he has become possessed by the Assyrian...

Isaiah 14:25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.

Possessed by the Assyrian, the beast, the person (called the beast in his namesake) now becomes the 8th king of the Roman Empire, because the ten EU leaders (Kings) will support him and his claim of being God, most likely as claiming to have achieved God-hood because he recognizes other lesser "gods", and the EU will be the Kingdom of the Beast in Revelation 13, for that last 42 months.

And the EU will be in control of the territories of the three former kingdoms of Daniel 7, the lion, the bear, the leopard.    Hence the composite appearance of the beast kingdom.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2016 by douggg

[Revelation Man]

7 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

The final kingdom is described in Daniel 2.   The legs of iron are Rome, Rome split into two capitals being ROME and ISTANBUL.  It is these two "feet" that have dominated the Middle east for centuries and will continue to do so. 

Istanbul will rise again because the timeline of Daniel 2 is unbroken showing the continued power of both Istanbul and Rome.

This is happening through the Pope/bankers using the USA to send its armies into the Middle East to ruin all countries not already under the control of western bankers. In this way the west is supporting their NATO buddy Turkey to control the Middle East just like the bible predicts.  Countries already tied into the western banking system like Saudi and Jordan are left alone in these wars.

http://www.turkishislamicunion.com/

Istanbul arises....................................

The ole RCC 10 Tribes etc. etc. is just way off. When Israel was dispersed all over the world after AD 70 and a little past that, you know Ezekiel's prophecy that said Israel was Dead men's bones, then those Bones COME ALIVE AGAIN !! There could be NO BEAST without an Israel. Rev. 17 says there was 7 Kings, 5 have fallen, (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece) ONE IS (Rome) and one is YET TO COME (Revived Rome/EU/Anti-Christ and 10 Kings) Everyone of these Countries/Kings/BEASTS Conquered, enslaved or Ruled Israel. That is why they are BEASTS !! Once Israel was no more, there could be no Beast until Israel was a nation again. Hence the Ottoman Empire WAS NOT a Beast nor could it be. 

 

Islam will be destroyed by the Anti-Christ. Islam and All False Religion is the Harlot that gets destroyed in Rev. 17:16. Babylon is the Last Beast System that gets destroyed in Rev. 18.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

28 minutes ago, douggg said:

It's because the 7 kings are not 7 kingdoms.    The premise of the thread is flawed.     There are only 4 kingdoms.     And 7 kings of the fourth kingdom.

 

The Assyrian is a referral, imo, to Nimrod, who is the disembodied spirit in the bottomless pit called "the beast".  

 

Separately, the end times person who starts as the little horn is the 7th king of Julio-Claudians, of the Roman empire, the fourth empire, head of the EU.     Then he becomes the prince who shall come following Gog/Magog.   Then is received by the Jews as their messiah, anointed the King of Israel, by the false prophet.     Then betrays Israel and turns against God, goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God.    The Jews reject him from continuing as their King of Israel, ending his time as the Antichrist.

God is angered by his audacious act and has him killed, Ezekiel 28:1-10.    The person finds himself in hell, in Isaiah 14, mocked.    God, in disdain for the person doesn't let him rest there, but cast him out of the grave, Isaiah14: 18-20, because as a Jew he betrays his land (the covenant made by God at Sinai) and his people Israel.

Brought back to life, the person is possessed by the unclean spirit of Nimrod, the beast currently in the bottomless pit, associated with the tower of babel, and rebellion against God.    After the person is cast out of the grave, because he betrays his land and his people, the switch is to calling him the Assyrian because he has become possessed by the Assyrian...

Isaiah 14:25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.

Possessed by the Assyrian, the beast, the person (called the beast in his namesake) now becomes the 8th king of the Roman Empire, because the ten EU leaders (Kings) will support him and his claim of being God, most likely as claiming to have achieved God-hood because he recognizes other lesser "gods", and the EU will be the Kingdom of the Beast in Revelation 13, for that last 42 months.

And the EU will be in control of the territories of the three former kingdoms of Daniel 7, the lion, the bear, the leopard.    Hence the composite appearance of the beast kingdom.

 

 

 

 

The Seven Kings are Seven Kingdoms, Five have Fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece) ONE IS (Rome) and one is YET TO COME ) Revived Rome/E.U./Anti-Christ and 10 Kings. The Assyrian is the coming Anti-Christ as described by Isaiah in Isaiah chapters 10 and 11. 

[douggg]

40 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

The Seven Kings are Seven Kingdoms, Five have Fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece) ONE IS (Rome) and one is YET TO COME ) Revived Rome/E.U./Anti-Christ and 10 Kings. The Assyrian is the coming Anti-Christ as described by Isaiah in Isaiah chapters 10 and 11. 

You can have seven kingdoms relevant to Israel - but those aren't relevant to the prophecy of the 7 kings.          It is seven kings associated with the place the woman has her residence - Rome.     They are not seven kings relevant to Israel.

The Anti-Christ has to be someone instead of and against Jesus - the Christ - the rightful King of Israel.     The person is a Jew and of the Julio-Claudians series of kings of the fourth empire.

The Assyrian connection is not until after he is killed and brought back to life.    The wounded and recovered head (the 7th king that continues for the short space of 42 months).

As a Jew, and anointed King of Israel, by the false prophet, when he goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God - that is the transgression of desolation.   He transgresses the covenant in an extreme way.

Later after he is killed and comes back to life, possessed by the beast in the bottomless pit - the Assyrian - he is given that namesake.   The image made of him as the beast, that will be a statue in the standing position, setup in the temple is the abomination of desolation.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2016 by douggg

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, douggg said:

You can have seven kingdoms relevant to Israel - but those aren't relevant to the prophecy of the 7 kings.          It is seven kings associated with the place the woman has her residence - Rome.     They are not seven kings relevant to Israel.

The Anti-Christ has to be someone instead of and against Jesus - the Christ - the rightful King of Israel.     The person is a Jew and of the Julio-Claudians series of kings of the fourth empire.

The Assyrian connection is not until after he is killed and brought back to life.    The wounded and recovered head (the 7th king that continues for the short space of 42 months).

As a Jew, and anointed King of Israel, by the false prophet, when he goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God - that is the transgression of desolation.   He transgresses the covenant in an extreme way.

Later after he is killed and comes back to life, possessed by the beast in the bottomless pit - the Assyrian - he is given that namesake.   The image made of him as the beast, that will be a statue in the standing position, setup in the temple is the abomination of desolation.

 

 

Rome is not the residence of the Woman. You might as well read my reply to your Rev. 1-20 thread or you will never understand my understanding of this. The person will be against Jesus but not in his place or in his stead. He will be a Gentle (Assyrian) because he comes out of the Sea. The False Prophet will be a Jew because he arises out of the Land. The False Prophet sets up an Idol in the Temple an IMAGE of the Beast !! 

But Rome has NOTHING to do with Rev. 17. That is where most people go off the rails.

[douggg]

1 minute ago, Revelation Man said:

Rome is not the residence of the Woman. You might as well read my reply to your Rev. 1-20 thread or you will never understand my understanding of this. The person will be against Jesus but not in his place or in his stead. He will be a Gentle (Assyrian) because he comes out of the Sea. The False Prophet will be a Jew because he arises out of the Land. The False Prophet sets up an Idol in the Temple an IMAGE of the Beast !! 

But Rome has NOTHING to do with Rev. 17. That is where most people go off the rails.

The place of seven mountains - Rome the city of the seven hills.    The woman to be destroyed in the end times, burnt to the ground, the Vatican, headquarters of the RCC.

 

Coming out of the sea, is coming out of the gentiles nations.   The person is still a Jew.     Coming out of the earth, the second person is also a Jew, but is from Israel.      The first person will be from the EU.    The second person will be from Israel.

 

The Assyrian doesn't come out either the earth or the sea - he ascends out of the bottomless pit.