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Who is The 7th Kingdom Beast (and 8th) of Rev?

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4 hours ago, Sab said:

Last daze: in 1 cor 15:52 we are told that the saints will be caught up at the last trumpet. Wouldnt that be the 7th?

I believe that the seventh trumpet begins the day of the Lord, when Jesus takes His great power and begins to reign.  It is sounded by an angel.  The last trumpet is the trumpet of God, a trumpet that God sounds.

The sequence as I see it is that the seventh trumpet sounds and then Jesus leaves heaven, appears in the clouds, sounds the trumpet of God, and begins the days of restoration fulfilling Zechariah 9:14:

Then the Lord will appear over them,                        (in the clouds)
And His arrow will go forth like lightning;                (consistent with the seventh trumpet)
And the Lord God will blow the trumpet,                 (the last trumpet of God)
And will march in the storm winds of the south.       (beginning of restitution /  restoration)

The seventh trumpet (the last of that series) signals Jesus to leave heaven and sound the trumpet of God (the last trump).

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Abaddon/Apollyon is the beast .... this fallen angel has ruled over the first 5 kingdoms of the Middle East in the past and will rule there again during the coming tribulation period over the 6th and 7th 

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10 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I believe that the seventh trumpet begins the day of the Lord, when Jesus takes His great power and begins to reign.  It is sounded by an angel.  The last trumpet is the trumpet of God, a trumpet that God sounds.

Matthew 24:31 And he will send his angels with a sound of a great trumpet and they shall gather  together his elect from the four winds,  from one end of heaven to the other.

1 Cor 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, the dead shall be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed.

1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a great shout, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the sounding of the 7th angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished as He declared  to his servants the prophets.

Does God, Himself, blow the trumpet that calls us home or His angel? Thess says trumpet of God. A minor detail that is not worth quibbling over. I just want to be there. But i did notice in Rev 10:7 it was days - plural. Whatever this brings it is sure to be a time of trouble for the inhabitants of our planet. I see the return of Christ as the point at which every knee will finally bow and the beginning of the millenial reign. Beyond that eternal reign. 

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Dan 11:36 You have chosen a very odd name. One blasphemous king shall prosper until the wrath has been accomplished...

I think that is the Roman empire as dan 11:9_34 trace the events that happened between the Ptolemies and the Seleucids. The wrath came upon the Jewish nation at that time (who has warned you to escape from the wrath to come. Wrath has come unto them to the uttermost) and the one who pushed at him dan 11:40 (him being the roman emperor who ruled from constantinople after the fall of the west ) was the Arab caliphate but then a new king of the north aka the turks came against him ( roman emperor at constantinople) like a whirlwind, with chariots,  horsemen and many ships. The turks then entered the glorious land and took egypt, libya and ethiopia. 

News from the north east troubled the turks... suspicion that the Armenians were siding with russia and the turks were furious and annihilated many - 1.5 million Armenians were massacred. But in world war 1 the ottomans - the sick man of europe - came to his end and none helped him.

Dan 12 - the 20th century - and there was a time of trouble - especially for the jews - the rise of global antisemitism (see rev 16:13 and rev 12:15 the holocaust) culminating in the birth of the state of Israel - so many prophecies fulfilled there - and tge return of the jews to their land. Where they will be finally delivered from their enemies when they call on yeshua.

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23 hours ago, Sab said:

Hi sister, 

I have a different understanding of book of revelation than you. I see most of it fulfilled already and that the 5th trumpet was the attack against the 7 churches by the arab armies islam in 7th century and 6th trumpet was the attack by the turks from the 11th until the decline of the ottoman empire in 1918 (symbolized by the drying up of the euphrates in rev 16:12). The kings of the east that arose after the fall of the ottoman  empire are the arab nations - Iraq, Jordan,  Syria and the evil spirits that unite the world to gather them to armageddon is modern antisemitism.

Thus we are only waiting for the last bowl of wrath to be poured out on this world and the seventh trumpet which is the return of the Lord.

Hi Sab

 Revelation 16:2   And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
 

The 7 angels are blowing the trumpet and pouring out God's wrath on the nations.  This is the finale and starts after the mark of the beast is issued.  We cannot say that a third of the earth has been burn't already?  or a third of the seas, and fountains of water have been polluted?. and the fourth angel has already smitten the sun and moon?  These terrible plagues that are coming upon the earth will affect everyone, and the two witnesses will be here to dish out those plagues.  They have not come yet, so all this wrath reserved on the ungodly, happens after the false prophet issues the mark of the beast. This is Babylon's punishment.

Until then we are all in that grace period, free to come to the Lord and build up our knowledge and faith, so that when these things happen, we will not be taken by surprise, but prepared and fully equipped in the spirit. 

All these plagues lead to the death of this system, and Babylon will rise no more.  So far Babylon is thriving and her evil is growing.  The 7 angels are the finale, and judgement on this world for all who refused to come out of Babylon, instead of coming under the shadow of the Lord.

 

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Sister

Revelations 10:11 you must prophesy AGAIN about many peoples, nations, tongues and kings.

Tell me, if you can, what nations peoples, tongues and kings has John prophesied about up to this point? And what nations, peoples, tongues and kingdoms does he prophesy about in the succeeding chapters?

According to the historicist view, which i hold to, the  first 4 trumpets symbolized the invasion of the roman empire in the 4th and 5th centuries. The goths had a scorched earth policy, the vandals controlled the western mediterranean. Attila was called the scourge of God for the devastation he wrought.

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Sab

Everything John spoke in the chapters leading up to Rev 10 are prophesies for everyone, all peoples, nations, tongues and kings.  This covers everyone who wants to read and know, small and great.

Rev 10 just means, keep going John, keep prophesying, until we are finished.  Prophesy to all.  Let everyone hear these words for a witness.

Babylon will not receive these plagues until sin has reached the full.  The world is given a chance to repent first, then punishment, and not the other way around.  The fruits have to be fully ripe,..fully grown....all the good and evil together, then the harvest.  The seven angels will come to harvest.

Matthew 13:30   Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

 

 Matthew 13:39   The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

 

 Revelation 14:15   And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
 

 

God's wrath this time will be poured out "without mixture". It will be strong drink and not be watered down, ... given straight.  And this is what John was sent to prophecy about, ....what the punishment will be at the end of this kingdom called Babylon, that will rise no more, a warning for us all to come out of her.

  

Revelation 14:8   And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

  Revelation 14:9   And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

  Revelation 14:10   The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

  Revelation 14:11   And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

Revelation 18:4   And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

  Revelation 18:5   For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

  Revelation 18:6   Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

 

 

Edited by Sister

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7 hours ago, Sister said:

Everything John spoke in the chapters leading up to Rev 10 are prophesies for everyone, all peoples, nations, tongues and kings.  This covers everyone who wants to read and know, small and great.

Rev 10 just means, keep going John, keep prophesying, until we are finished. 

 

But it doesn't  say prophesy TO everyone in Rev 10:11, it says prophesy ABOUT many peoples, nations, tongues and kings. There is a big difference in talking TO someone and talking ABOUT someone. John 10 does not mean keep prophesying, John,  until we are finished.

For example in Rev 6:2-7 the horsemen and the colours of the horsemen was a prophecy about the Roman emperors. There was a big shift in Roman rule beginning with Vespasian in 79 AD where members of the equestrian ranks could become emperors. Before that only senators were eligible to become emperors. The first horseman conquered - Trajan conquered the Dacians and Hadrian conquered the Jewish nation, the rider on the red horse = peace was taken away from the earth. What peace? Pax Romana. 

The rider on the black horse = a measure of wheat for a denarius. This was considerably more than the price of wheat in 90 AD BUT by 300 AD with inflation and debased currency the price of wheat was much MORE than this. This verse was fulfilled around 200 AD.

The rider on the green horse. Green was the colour of the emperors in the hippodrome. The crisis of the third century when the empire had some 50 emperors in 50 years, suffered multiple plague epidemics as well as famines and war. The population of the empire plunged.

Look for coins from this era. Many carried images of horsemen. Google equestrian Roman coins. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=roman+equestrian+coins&client=tablet-android-telstra-au&prmd=sivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZk-CK56TWAhXFy7wKHa8QDukQ_AUIEigC&biw=1024&bih=768

The Christians were blamed for these calamities and what followed was 10 years (Rev 2:10) of savage persecution. Rev 6:9-11

Rev 1:3 the time is near... 

Rev 1:19 write what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later.

John was writing about 1900 years ago. What was future for him is not necessarily future for us. Revelation is addressed to 7 churches in the Roman province of Asia,  that is western turkey now. Where are those 7 churches NOW? What happened to them? Answer that and you'll find the nations, peoples, kings and languages John  prophesied about.

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Hi Sab

Can you please address those scriptures I gave you?   It is clear that evil must be reached to the full before the final plagues are given. 

The beast's kingdom is for only 3.5 yrs, then the coming.  The 7 angels with the 7 trumpets and vials are in this 3.5 yrs period, and it's simple and straight forward. 

When we see these things begin, the mark of the beast has to be first issued, then all these 7 angels will commence, in their order, exactly as it says, affecting every single person who refused to come to the truth.

Beware of the falling away, where the truth is trampled on.

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On 15/09/2017 at 6:21 AM, Sister said:

Hi Sab

Can you please address those scriptures I gave you?   It is clear that evil must be reached to the full before the final plagues are given

I didn't  realise you wanted me to. You've quoted matthew 13 together with Rev 14 and 18. Matthew 13 is about the final harvest as is Rev 14:11.

You assume that Mystery  Babylon has not been judged at all and will not be judged until the very end. Who do you think mystery Babylon is? I believe mystery Babylon is Constantinople and that she has been judged several times already for her role in the corruption of the gospel. Part of that judgement was her being looted and burned in 1204 by the 4th crusade. She also fell to the Turks in 1453. Her final judgement is still pending. At that point she will utterly fall - into the Bosphorus.

Why would the Lord wait 1700 years to judge the city that so utterly corrupted the gospel? Each generation has to bear their own sin. Among the judgements read rev 2:16 repent or I will come against you quickly, or Rev 2:22 I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery into great tribulation unless they repent.  furthermore he says they didnt repent. So what judgement did they receive? The spiritual adultery of the church was idolatry. The worship of Mary began in 4th century. I propose that 14 successive plague pandemics that killed 40 million people was part of the judgement they received... but they still didn't  repent so the Lord allowed multiple invasions - first the barbarians (rev 8) then two islamic empires (rev 9).  The second of these empires is possibly the beast of rev 13:11-18 and the mark of the beast may be forsaking Christ for islam. Six bowls of wrath (i suspect ) have been poured out already - the first seems likely to have been the Black Death. We only know it killed 1/3 of europe but it also devastated the ottoman empire but their records weren't  quite as good as the European's.

The sixth bowl of wrath symbolized the decline of the ottoman empire  - that ended in 1918. Prophecy writers in  the 19th century believed the 6th bowl pointed to the fall of  the ottoman empire. They didnt believe this 7 year future tribulation that you so clearly adhere to. Nor do I. 

They still haven't repented so this generation is going to get hammered. Europe has already been invaded and is now embracing ssm and meanwhile islamic attacks will get more violent and more frequent. We are also likely to see more famines in our time as food crops are wiped out by freak weather events. Constantinople aka Istanbul aka mystery babylon is bracing for the next big quake which is due any time.

But if you want to believe that all the prophecies in book of revelation are going to be fulfilled at some future date when the church is safely out of the way good luck with that. I don't believe that interpretation is sound. Where are the seven churches in rev 1-3 now? The prophecies were written to them.

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