the book of Jasher, should it be part of study ?

[SINNERSAVED]

 

 

Actually the Bible doesn't tell us that.  Here is the actual Scripture:

If we aren’t careful, we might end up twisting Paul’s writings to our own destruction.

Instead, we must be critical about the text and examine it to see what it truly says. We see that the text in 2 Corinthians 5:8 does not say that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. One does not equal the other. Here is the entire passage in question so that we can understand the full context; from Truthaboutdeath.com:

“For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:1–8).

Paul likens our existing mortal bodies with an “earthly tent,” and says we should not worry if it is destroyed because we have a “building from God” that awaits us. The context does not support the claim that we will be in God’s presence without a body; rather, Paul simply says we will not have THIS body. He likens our bodies to clothing that we must wear. In verse 4, Paul specifically says he does not want to be unclothed (without a body), but rather further clothed (different body). That’s quite a different picture than a disembodied spirit that lives on after death!

you have tried and also  attack all scripture and threads I post, and its for  what ?, I have clearly stated that, and I am still correct in context if we want to nickel dime, this, and now I have to explain, for reasons, to keep this from derailment, by the same that does it to me all the time, my statement on to be absent of the body , is to be present with the lord,  so if you want to say I am twisting anything, lets take a good look at it ,

for I said it , as I did , and it is still valid,  now if I said to be absent of the body , would not be with the lord, then maybe we can raise the dead on this subject to figure out how I twisted, and manipulated this verse,  if you want to say that you are correcting me  for the verse in scripture, I am calling that false, and its not even needed for it goes to show, why,you do this, and what your motives are ? period,

we see that I have started many topics ,and if I am wrong I will admit it, but to say that the evil spirits and deceiving people is not allowed then why do you derail this thread and muddy the waters like on the others,  is it for personal gain? what you just showed in scripture has nothing to do with anything out of context, so you have brought up something to derail, just because, and that's not nice, and not honest,?

 I am not here for popularity, ? as some, but to bring the simple, untwisted,!! word of God, and it gets derailed, ? when it is twisted to say what I am not saying ,and then I have to explain my self for something I did not do ? , and so if we want to be about scripture and not teach false doctrines and have evil spirits and out side evil reside here, then we must stay in the bible and keep it about God, and not the self, for this is where it goes off track, lets just keep it about God, we want to know about God and His love for the Sinful people, and why He had to die on the cross, for many will hear His word, and then there will be others that , will be judged for what they do for it is not God s glory , it is the self , and we worship a just and Holy God, and every  word and thought , and motive will be accounted for,

and so , if I teach anything, it is with compassion, and for the edifying of the people, and nothing else, to encourage and build up , not to tear down , and attack, and so this has got to stop, lashing out at me or trying to trip one, at every corner takes people away from learning and understanding the love for God, for if we are showing hate and contempt, then we are doing no one any good, and Gods people are not about what the world is , but what the kingdom, of God is, we are to be kind and understanding, and not dishonest, and full of pride, for the pride goes before a fall, this is what the bible says, and not to be joined the dark and the light for it does not mix,  and so

its getting old to have to explain my self for there is disagreement, for I teach the truth , and the truth is not easy to take,?

 thank you to all that has seen this and why they do this,

blessings and peace

[SINNERSAVED]

 

I read the long post you quoted as an encouragement to trust in God's Word, and a warning not to stand on anything outside of God's word.  This was not an attack on another, but a loving reminder and someone pointing to Christ, do not open yourself up to be deceived by an evil spirit.  Do you take offense to someone pointing to Christ alone?  What do you mean this is not a place to question someone's belief system?  If you believe on something other than God's Word and post it, I would expect someone here at Worthy to make every available opportunity to point you to Christ.  That is love, I love you enough to want you to know the truth.  The truth is in God's Word, not these other books that have been tested and rejected.  

these books have not been tested and rejected, for they were not place in the bible, but it tells about the God and does not conflict with scripture, and so , that would be your opinion,  but not true, and so how do you speak for something you do not believe in the books, and yet make a judgment with no real conclusion, of how it is not in the bible,  so I will have to disagree with you as my opinion, only , and that the post is correct, of how it is not about being of Christ and pointing to Him,  but the motives and the actions for the  gain of being right, and not of the gospels, and the word of God,

 and so esthers 4;14, is in the right standing of rebuke to those that are trying to just find fault , and this is truth , ?

what do we gain when a house is divided among it self , it cannot stand, and the word of the lord, is placed in mans delusions, and not of the holy spirit ,many are claiming to do the right thing for scripture, when in fact, it is not the real reason they are using that, we are to not prostitute Gods word for the sake of our selves, in any way , for our God is holy and righteous and in due time, those that hear His voice, will hear the call,?

 thank you

[hmbld]

 

these books have not been tested and rejected, for they were not place in the bible, but it tells about the God and does not conflict with scripture, and so , that would be your opinion,  but not true, and so how do you speak for something you do not believe in the books, and yet make a judgment with no real conclusion, of how it is not in the bible,  so I will have to disagree with you as my opinion, only , and that the post is correct, of how it is not about being of Christ and pointing to Him,  but the motives and the actions for the  gain of being right, and not of the gospels, and the word of God,

 and so esthers 4;14, is in the right standing of rebuke to those that are trying to just find fault , and this is truth , ?

what do we gain when a house is divided among it self , it cannot stand, and the word of the lord, is placed in mans delusions, and not of the holy spirit ,many are claiming to do the right thing for scripture, when in fact, it is not the real reason they are using that, we are to not prostitute Gods word for the sake of our selves, in any way , for our God is holy and righteous and in due time, those that hear His voice, will hear the call,?

 thank you

Hold on now. Those books have indeed been tested against scripture and rejected. They conflict with scripture, proof has been given, and yet you are offended someone offers to point you to trusting in the word of God alone?

[SINNERSAVED]

 

Thank you kindly hmbld  you understood my concern.

If I see someone falling into sin. I will speak as every christian is called to do so. 

Luke 17:1-4King James Version (KJV)

17 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!

² It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

³ Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

⁴ And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

 

 The Book of Enoch is it Scripture?

Is this the Holy-Spirit inspired word of God? This is where we can pretty confidently say "no". If it were Scripture, we would expect it to be free of false doctrine. What we find instead is that false doctrine is one of the most prevalent themes in the book!

Taking a cursory look at the text up through Chapter 59, I found the following false doctrines. (I may be off on one here or there, but it should be sufficient to get my point across.)

• 1:1 Implies restoration during tribulation - not congruent with scriptures.

• 1:8 In conflict with the doctrine that peace was made at the cross. Also, in the last days tribulation will increase for the righteous - this "verse" seems to dispute that.

• 2:2-3 Appears to contradict 2 Pet 3:3-7

• 5:4 Is an admonition to some unknown party - this is very irregular relative to the scriptures (i.e. authentic ancient writings by God-fearing Jews)

• 6:3 Semjaza seems to be listed as the leader of the angels, which is not scriptural

• 6:3,8 None of these angels are mentioned in the Bible

• 8:1 Azazel isn't even listed in 6:8 as one of the angels that fornicated with women

• 8:3 Araqiel and Shamsiel aren't listed in 6:8 either

• 10:2 Enoch allegedly wrote about Noah, even though the Bible teaches that Enoch was taken up to heaven years before Noah was born.

• 10:4-6,12 Implies angels can be bound & hid in holes under rocks. This is contrary to scripture.

• 10:8 Ascribes all the sin of the fallen angels to one named Azazel - not scriptural.

• 10:15-11:2 Seems to imply that permanent restoration took place after the flood - clearly not true. It seems the true author of this book confused scriptures pertaining to the future restoration.

• 13:5-6,14:4-5,7 Implies fallen angels can't talk to God - this contradicts Job. Also implies that angels were repentant, but weren't received back by God - very strange doctrine.

• 14 Gives a very strange description of Heaven that conflicts with many scriptures

• 15:8-10 Very strange doctrine about "evil spirits" proceeding from unredeemable giants

• 17-18,21,23 Gives a very strange description of the earth & universe which is clearly not true. Also alludes to the ancient model of astronomy that held that there were 7 stars (the closest planets) which burned like the sun (they don't.)

• 19:3 Discredits all other prophecy about the consumation of the ages.

• 20 Lists strange angels not in scripture, and incorrectly assigns the roles of Michael (the warrior) and Gabriel (the messenger)

• 21:7-10 Seems to contradict Biblical descriptions of the present & final judgement places for the fallen angels

• 22 Contradicts the Biblical descriptions of past, present & future dwelling places for the righteous who die

• 32:2-6 Seems to imply the Garden of Eden was still in existance after the Flood

• 33:1-2 Says Heaven rests on a foundation that is at the Eastern edge of the earth

• 33:3 He claims he counted the stars & individually mapped them, which is impossible scripturally (& scientifically)

• 34 Says the winds come out of a "portal" at the Northern edge of the earth

• 36:3 Says the stars come out of portals at the Eastern edge of the earth & move West

• 38:5-6 Contradicts Daniel & other prophecies about the Mellinial Reign

• 39:1-2 Very strange implications here about the "seed" of angels dwelling with men at the end... this contradicts the scriptures

• 40:7 Talks about the "Satans" - plural, different than the Bible, who gives that name to only one fallen angel. Also, implies Satan can't stand in God's presence, contrary to Job.

• 40:9 Once again mixes up the roles of the 2 Archangels & adds more names in. Michael's role in scripture is related to conquoring nations & fighting spiritual wars, while Gabriel's relates to bringing messages & visions to people.

• 41:1-2 Says the Kingdom of God is divided - it's not & can't be scripturally. Also describes sinners being repelled from a mansion, which is also not scriptural, unless you look at a parable Jesus told, which was not intended to be literal.

• 41:4-5 Says the sun, moon, winds, etc. are stored in chambers & released at appointed times.

• 41:6-7 Implies the sun & moon move opposite of each other

• 43:1-3,44 Very weird model of the nature of stars & lightning

• 47:4 Says God requires the blood of the saints... very strange

• 51:1 Says Sheol & Hell will give back to the earth, which isn't scriptural - also Hell is a NT term, not OT

• 51:2 Disputes the Biblical doctrine that we are chosen. (We don't have to wait until Christ's return to be chosen.) This isn't scriptural.

• General: Seems to imply Enoch came back down to earth after being taken up to Heaven, which is not scriptural.

Summary 1 Timothy 1:3,4

I think Paul's words are very pertinent here:

As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines, nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith. But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions. 

 

 

----------

Peace in our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus

1 to 3

you have concluded, and judge these statements to be and not to be scripture, and you have not even understand all scripture, for this is from the top of the surface to try to down something you do not understand, for in the book of Enoch, we have what is more define, of the truth in the bible, and so it is only your opinion, and your view that is actually  making a case  against this, and so , there is no bias, understanding , but a one sided view, that you have is just that, I love and enjoy the read, but like I said before, not to take it so serious that we make divides on issues we do not agree on,

thank you

[SINNERSAVED]

 

Hold on now. Those books have indeed been tested against scripture and rejected. They conflict with scripture, proof has been given, and yet you are offended someone offers to point you to trusting in the word of God alone?

No not at all, you think that the post given above, is the authoritive testing and rejection, to prove, I do not think so, it is one persons view and opinion, and you are taking their word for it to be true, and this is how we have false teaching when we just take someones word for it, and not look at it for our selves,  for a fact, I could even pick and choose scripture out of the bible to make it say completely opposite of what it means,  this is called taken scripture out of context which has just been done, with the book in question and the bible, ? so I would go back to the drawing board, for it is also trying to make it more then it is again, and if we can ever get a topic with out the divisions  of God and evil between brothers and sisters of the lord,  that would be a miracle ?

 thank you and remember, scripture must not be used out of its context to try to prove anything, for that's not how we read scripture, that is what people do to justify , there wants and views,

[hmbld]

 

No not at all, you think that the post given above, is the authoritive testing and rejection, to prove, I do not think so, it is one persons view and opinion, and you are taking their word for it to be true, and this is how we have false teaching when we just take someones word for it, and not look at it for our selves,  for a fact, I could even pick and choose scripture out of the bible to make it say completely opposite of what it means,  this is called taken scripture out of context which has just been done, with the book in question and the bible, ? so I would go back to the drawing board, for it is also trying to make it more then it is again, and if we can ever get a topic with out the divisions  of God and evil between brothers and sisters of the lord,  that would be a miracle ?

 thank you and remember, scripture must not be used out of its context to try to prove anything, for that's not how we read scripture, that is what people do to justify , there wants and views,

I do not wish to quarrel, I will leave it at that. 

May God bless you

[MorningGlory]

 

you have tried and also  attack all scripture and threads I post, and its for  what ?, I have clearly stated that, and I am still correct in context if we want to nickel dime, this, and now I have to explain, for reasons, to keep this from derailment, by the same that does it to me all the time, my statement on to be absent of the body , is to be present with the lord,  so if you want to say I am twisting anything, lets take a good look at it ,

for I said it , as I did , and it is still valid,  now if I said to be absent of the body , would not be with the lord, then maybe we can raise the dead on this subject to figure out how I twisted, and manipulated this verse,  if you want to say that you are correcting me  for the verse in scripture, I am calling that false, and its not even needed for it goes to show, why,you do this, and what your motives are ? period,

we see that I have started many topics ,and if I am wrong I will admit it, but to say that the evil spirits and deceiving people is not allowed then why do you derail this thread and muddy the waters like on the others,  is it for personal gain? what you just showed in scripture has nothing to do with anything out of context, so you have brought up something to derail, just because, and that's not nice, and not honest,?

 I am not here for popularity, ? as some, but to bring the simple, untwisted,!! word of God, and it gets derailed, ? when it is twisted to say what I am not saying ,and then I have to explain my self for something I did not do ? , and so if we want to be about scripture and not teach false doctrines and have evil spirits and out side evil reside here, then we must stay in the bible and keep it about God, and not the self, for this is where it goes off track, lets just keep it about God, we want to know about God and His love for the Sinful people, and why He had to die on the cross, for many will hear His word, and then there will be others that , will be judged for what they do for it is not God s glory , it is the self , and we worship a just and Holy God, and every  word and thought , and motive will be accounted for,

and so , if I teach anything, it is with compassion, and for the edifying of the people, and nothing else, to encourage and build up , not to tear down , and attack, and so this has got to stop, lashing out at me or trying to trip one, at every corner takes people away from learning and understanding the love for God, for if we are showing hate and contempt, then we are doing no one any good, and Gods people are not about what the world is , but what the kingdom, of God is, we are to be kind and understanding, and not dishonest, and full of pride, for the pride goes before a fall, this is what the bible says, and not to be joined the dark and the light for it does not mix,  and so

its getting old to have to explain my self for there is disagreement, for I teach the truth , and the truth is not easy to take,?

 thank you to all that has seen this and why they do this,

blessings and peace

l posted Scripture; if you choose to reject it, along with the advice of everyone here who has told you about the dangers of considering extrabiblical texts then I guess that's your decision.  No one is trying to attack you here, SS, or to derail this thread since all comments have been on topic, but only to try to get you to see that it's wise to avoid putting much confidence in books that were rejected by God for inclusion in the Bible.

[SINNERSAVED]

 

I do not wish to quarrel, I will leave it at that. 

May God bless you

I am the same . blessing to you , and peace....no rudeness intended,  thank you

[MorningGlory]

 

 

I would call this legalism.  This has to be one of the most nit picky responses to another believer I have seen yet on this forum.  Yes, it is an accurate opinion of the verse, but it is entirely unnecessary.  I truly don't even enjoy pointing this out, but I just don't agree with this favoritism shown for certain people around here.  It is clearly obvious that is something of a click.  That there is a general consensus that floats around from thread to thread targeting people on a regular basis.  I truly begin to wonder what kind of gossip goes on behind the scenes about the people who are on here who don't "fit" in with this denomination here on the forum.  We are supposed to be Christian.  

Anyways, he is directly quoting the verse almost verbatim and refers to it as a "solid" scripture.  I think you are the one who is twisting Paul's writings to be used as ammunition because he specifically says that it is not clear when this will take place or whether we will be present with the Lord when the four angels are gathering from the four corners, which isn't likely because the book of Revelation says the 144,000 are gathered at this point (Revelation 7).  He says that the story of Lazarus and the rich man might give us an idea of what the other side of this life in the flesh will looks like when we are gathered depending on whether or not we are saved and this is in answer to a response wondering whether the Bible says that we will be with the Lord if we are saved when we die or whether we will sleep until we are raised at the end for unbelief.  SS is responding that scripture does not say when we will be gathered even if scripture confirms that being absent from the body means to be present with the Lord.  Yes, Paul does elaborate further about clothed with a different body, but this is not necessary information to address the question regarding whether believers are with Him when they die versus sleeping in unbelief.  

This was a question because the book of Enoch says he had a vision of Abel being in the presence of the Lord.  

Therefore, SS is not questioning anything because he is not suggesting that the vision that is demonstrated in the book of Enoch changes what the scripture has to say about life after death.  His confirmation in regard to the portion of text in question is that scripture does not demonstrate for certain whether we will be with the Lord immediately upon passing from this life.  

So, if you are not careful, you might just end up trying to nitpick people you clearly don't care for and end up looking silly because you make a terrible argument attempting to make his understanding of the scripture looks poor in comparison to your own.  So, what then?  What is the goal of this?  So, everyone will see what he has to say the same way you do the next time he submits a reply.  They will all make a counter reply sounding like they are dizzy and exasperated that people are starting these topics on what used to be a much more "Christian" forum before these new people came asking questions about all these silly things.  Because maybe it would be better if all of us just left everyone else here alone on the board to continue fighting for last place.  Would that make you feel better?

" “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.  For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you," (Matthew 7:1-2).  

The above is one of the most arbitrary and unkind posts that have ever been directed at me.  When Scripture becomes 'judging' instead of informing, we have a real problem here.

[Ezra]

what do we gain when a house is divided among it self

The person who tries to promote extra-biblical writings -- which is you -- is the one who tries to divide by bringing conflicting teachings to Christians.  This is not the only example either. All writings outside of the sixty six books in our Bible must be regarded as NOT INSPIRED BY GOD.