the book of Jasher, should it be part of study ?

[SINNERSAVED]

11 minutes ago, Ezra said:

SS thinks he knows something about this subject but he has not really done any serious study.  Yet when you answer his questions, he is ready to dismiss the answers as above, and promote the non-canonical books.

For Jesus of Nazareth -- the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God -- the Tanakh was the Word of God -- Holy Scriptures. When He said "It is written" there was no disputing that, even by His enemies the scribes and Pharisees.  

And Christ clearly identified the Scriptures as the Law (Torah), the Prophets (Neviim), and the Psalms (Kethuviim).  That is 24 books in the Hebrew Bible.  No Apocrypha, and no Psuedepigraphical books.

that s funny Ezra you did not answer my question on the gathering which you left out,  and then ran, and then you are telling others what I know and don't know in study this is judgment ?, are you aware of this, ? for you have stated what you think of me is not nice, and this is   false witness to me ? so before you teach scripture and the word of God , I think it applies to every one, and that be you also ? would you not agree ?

[Paradigm]

I thought I would bring up something that I think is closely related to this discussion.

 

• Where did the writer of Psalm 105 get this information about Joseph?

 

Psalm 105:17-18  He sent a man before them, even Joseph, who was sold for a servant: ¹⁸ Whose feet they hurt with fetters: he was laid in iron:

 

• Where did the writer of Hebrews get this quote from Moses?

 

Hebrews 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)

 

• Where in the OT did Moses refuse to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter?

 

Hebrews 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

 

• Where in the OT does it say that the golden censer was in the Holy of Holies?

 

Hebrews 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

 

[Davidjayjordan]

Worth a read, if a person has the Holy Spirit. Some parts are very helpful.

The present bible of books has only been in existence for the last 150 years or so.

Our forefathers had just parts of different PROPHETIC BOOKS, and gasp some of them only had books of the law. Yet survivied with the help of the Lords SPIRIT

[SINNERSAVED]

15 hours ago, WilliamL said:

You say, " Christ regarded only our Old Testament (the Hebrew Tanakh) as "the Scriptures." Christ did not say that.

You say, "... we have a New Testament canon in Greek by about 200 AD." No, there was no Church agreement at that time about a finalized canon: different leading Church elders all had somewhat different views. There was no standard agreement among them.

You say, "The councils merely confirmed what was a reality within the churches." No, the councils merely determined what was a reality within the Roman Empire's sphere of influence. Outside of that sphere, there were still different canons kept. Such as by the Ethiopian Church.

that was what I was trying to get at,. and , you see what I was trying to say , and where did jesus say this, ? I like when we can speak for God, its just amazing, to here ? how do I get to that level of scripture,. ? William ? for how does this happen ? to say the things like that and convince your self it is true ?

[WilliamL]

8 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

that was what I was trying to get at,. and , you see what I was trying to say , and where did jesus say this, ? I like when we can speak for God, its just amazing, to here ? how do I get to that level of scripture,. ? William ? for how does this happen ? to say the things like that and convince your self it is true ?

Some people take the doctrines of men, and of Church creeds and councils, to be authoritative over Christ's whole Church. This especially became true soon after Constantine made Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire, and himself called for the Nicene Council to take place, and then personally intervened in that Council, and then enforced some of that Council's decisions with the authority of the Empire.

Such a centralization and pyramidizing of the Church was never authorized by Jesus, who created a much more horizontal Church structure:

Matt. 23:8 “But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi'; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren.

What happened to the Church is akin to what happened to the nations descended from Noah after the Flood. God intended for them to spread abroad over the whole earth, but Nimrod created an empire to reign over them all, and keep them close together both in body and spirit. God loves diversity of expression, including in the Church, but Satan loves dominion, and inspires men to build dominating pyramidal organizations. The papal structure of the RCC, with its claims of authority over Christ's whole Church and its all of its doctrines, is the prime example.

15 hours ago, Paradigm said:

I thought I would bring up something that I think is closely related to this discussion.

• Where did the writer of Psalm 105 get this information about Joseph?

Psalm 105:17-18  He sent a man before them, even Joseph, who was sold for a servant: ¹⁸ Whose feet they hurt with fetters: he was laid in iron:    [ETC.]

Good post and points. One to add, which others have already noted in this discussion, is Paul's mention of Jannes and Jambres in 2 Tim. 2:8, names which come from the Book of Jasher, not the Bible.

 

[Paradigm]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Good post and points. One to add, which others have already noted in this discussion, is Paul's mention of Jannes and Jambres in 2 Tim. 2:8, names which come from the Book of Jasher, not the Bible.

 

Yes, Thanks William that is another good example.

If is evident that many of the quotes and references made by NT writers did not come from the written Tanakh. They also drew upon other sources that were handed down orally or in other books that were not canonized. 

Of course there are a number of books mentioned in the Bible that writers apparently saw as authoritative. Other times books or writings were seen as having some truths, but not necessarily inspired. 

Has anyone checked to see what Paul was quoting in the passage below?

Acts 17:28  For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.  Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

[Your closest friendnt]

On 4/13/2016 at 11:25 AM, Paradigm said:

Yes, Thanks William that is another good example.

If is evident that many of the quotes and references made by NT writers did not come from the written Tanakh. They also drew upon other sources that were handed down orally or in other books that were not canonized. 

Of course there are a number of books mentioned in the Bible that writers apparently saw as authoritative. Other times books or writings were seen as having some truths, but not necessarily inspired. 

Has anyone checked to see what Paul was quoting in the passage below?

Acts 17:28  For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.  Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

J read your post and I would like to know what Paul was talking about, if you don't mind. I like to know your thoughts on this one. 

[Paradigm]

15 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

J read your post and I would like to know what Paul was talking about, if you don't mind. I like to know your thoughts on this one. 

Hi Your closest friendnt,

The information below is on page 13 of the Book "The Witness of the Stars" by E.W. Bullinger:

Coming down to less ancient records: Eudoxos, an astronomer of Cnidus (403 to 350 BC), wrote a work on Astronomy which he called Phainomena. Antigonus Gonatas, King of Macedonia (273-239 BC), requested the Poet Aratus to put the work of Eudoxus into the form of a poem, which he did about the year 270 BC. Aratus called his work Diosemeia (the Divine Signs). He was a native of Tarsus, and it is interesting for us to note that his poem was known to, and, indeed, must have been read by, the Apostle Paul, for he quotes it in his address at Athens on Mars's Hill. He says (Acts 17:28) "For in Him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring." Several translations of this poem have been made, both by Cicero and others, into Latin, and in recent times into English by E. Poste, J. Lamb, and others.

The following is the opening from the translation of Robert Brown, jun.:

"From Zeus we lead the strain; he whom mankind Ne'er leave unhymned: of Zeus all public ways, All haunts of men, are full; and full the sea, And harbours; and of Zeus all stand in need. We are his offspring: and he, ever good and mild to man, Gives favouring signs, and rouses us to toil. Calling to mind life's wants: when clods are best For plough and mattock: when the time is ripe For planting vines and sowing seeds, he tells, Since he himself hath fixed in heaven these signs, The stars dividing: and throughout the year Stars he provides to indicate to man The seasons' course, that all things duly grow," etc., etc. 

[Your closest friendnt]

On 4/28/2016 at 10:47 AM, Paradigm said:

Hi Your closest friendnt,

The information below is on page 13 of the Book "The Witness of the Stars" by E.W. Bullinger:

Coming down to less ancient records: Eudoxos, an astronomer of Cnidus (403 to 350 BC), wrote a work on Astronomy which he called Phainomena. Antigonus Gonatas, King of Macedonia (273-239 BC), requested the Poet Aratus to put the work of Eudoxus into the form of a poem, which he did about the year 270 BC. Aratus called his work Diosemeia (the Divine Signs). He was a native of Tarsus, and it is interesting for us to note that his poem was known to, and, indeed, must have been read by, the Apostle Paul, for he quotes it in his address at Athens on Mars's Hill. He says (Acts 17:28) "For in Him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring." Several translations of this poem have been made, both by Cicero and others, into Latin, and in recent times into English by E. Poste, J. Lamb, and others.

The following is the opening from the translation of Robert Brown, jun.:

"From Zeus we lead the strain; he whom mankind Ne'er leave unhymned: of Zeus all public ways, All haunts of men, are full; and full the sea, And harbours; and of Zeus all stand in need. We are his offspring: and he, ever good and mild to man, Gives favouring signs, and rouses us to toil. Calling to mind life's wants: when clods are best For plough and mattock: when the time is ripe For planting vines and sowing seeds, he tells, Since he himself hath fixed in heaven these signs, The stars dividing: and throughout the year Stars he provides to indicate to man The seasons' course, that all things duly grow," etc., etc. 

That's interesting, the people of that time had knowledge of the events that happen in Egypt and the middle East, they were commerce minded, and they had establish comuniteis in other countries. 

Regarding Paul knowing the works of their poets, It is possible to have read or being inform of them, he might have met some people who new of those poets and might have brought it to his attention.

On the other hand he may have moved by the Holy Spirit to speak those words, for Paul was among other things also a prophet. 

In any case but that time the news as to what happened in Jerusalem about Jesus and the new movement of the faith could have reach Athens, and the Athenians must have heard something about the Gospel of Jesus Christ before Paul got to their city.

Thank you for your input it was interesting. 

[Guest shiloh357]

On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 11:38 PM, SINNERSAVED said:

okay we had a topic on the book of enoch, and so here is another book, the book of jasher ?

 would it be to use, with the bible, ? or any one know why it is not part of the bible ?

 and any comments on this Book, is it good or no good,  just asking, ?

 thank you

How would you set about proving that the text that claims to be the book of Jasher is the one mentioned in the Bible?