The anti-Christ, Jew or Gentile?

[HAZARD]

On ‎17‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 3:32 PM, bopeep1909 said:

The Bible does not say specifically where the Antichrist comes from so it is all speculation.

 

As you yourself have said, false teaching and ideas or personal theories need correction. The Bible does specifically say where the Antichrist comes from. its only speculation to those who do not know the Scriptures, The book of Daniel makes it clear that the Antichrist will come from the ten kingdoms of the Old Roman Empire, as in Dan. 7:7-8, 23-24, and from the four divisions of the Grecian Empire, which are four of the ten, as in Dan. 8:7-9, 20-23, but it also makes it clear that he will come from the Syrian division of the four divisions of Greece, as taught in Dan. 11. The king of the north of this chapter is Syria, and the king of the south is Egypt. Wars between these two divisions of Greece are pictures in Dan. 11:5-34. Verses 35-45 portray war between these same two kingdoms "at the time of the end," showing the result of the last war between them. It states that the land of Egypt shall not escape the king of the north in this last war, thus identifying Syria as being the country from which the Antichrist must come. If the king of the North was Russia, as many Bible students now teach how could Dan 11:44 be fulfilled? What countries are north of Russia that could fight against her, as required by this verse?

The Antichrist, a man, will reign over only ten kingdoms that are yet to be formed inside the yet to be revived, Old Roman Empire. (Dan. 7:23-24). Only these ten kingdoms will give their power and kingdoms to him. (Rev.13:1; 17:12-17). Certain countries will escape his rule (Dan.11:40-44). Certain countries will make war on him at the very time he is supposed to be ruling the whole world (Dan. 11:40-44). Because he will reign only over ten countries inside the Roman Empire territory and because America is not inside that territory and never will be, and because certain countries will escape him we can scripturally conclude that he will never rule America or be a world-wide dictator. Therefore, multitudes of people of many nations will also never take the mark of the beast and they will never be killed by the Antichrist for not doing so.

[douggg]

On 5/18/2016 at 10:43 PM, Qnts2 said:

Just to interject some thoughts.

I am an American Jew. I am a citizen of the U.S. But, I am not a native American. A Jewish person who lives in the area of Assyrian is not a native Assyrian. They are living in diaspora which means they live outside of their land which would be Israel.

In Judaism, it is believed there are and have been many messiahs. But there will only be on The Messiah. A messiah is a person who helps the Jewish people. It is a person who is anointed to do the will of God and might be a teacher or King. The Messiah has a series of prophesies to fulfill. If a person fulfills some of the prophesy, they will not be declared officially The Messiah until they fulfill all of the prophesies.

 

From my discussions over at MessiahTruth.com, basically that's what they say, that the kings and priests were anointeds, and thus messiahs.   "The" messiah is the special forthcoming King of Israel to lead Israel and the world into the messianic age of peace, safety, harmony.

In theory, Jews (Judaism) follow the teachings of the Rambam, a famous Jewish theologian, the person is not said to be the messiah until after all the requirements have been fulfilled.   But that is in theory.    In Reality,  it has not been followed that way as many Jews thought Rebbe Schneerson was the messiah before the requirments were meet, some still do.

 

[Marilyn C]

21 hours ago, douggg said:

Marilyn, where are you reading in the bible a peace treaty ?     And when you say "they will accept him"  - as what?      What was written on the plaque that Pilate had placed above Jesus's head on the cross?     The Jews would not accept Jesus coming in his Father's name  - as what?

Hi douggg,

A peace treaty - `he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice & offering...`  (Dan. 9: 27)

This covenant - Heb. `beriyth,` a compact, confederacy, league.

Compact - closely united, as agreement.

confederacy - an alliance, esp. of states.

league - a combination between states for their mutual aid.

Thus we can see that a leader will make a covenant, a confederation with Israel & so they begin their sacrifices & offerings. This will be after the Russian war, for Israel will spend 7 months burying the bodies & cleansing the land. Then they will begin their sacrifices & offerings to God.

`For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, (the far northern confederation) in order to cleanse the land.` (Ez. 39: 12)

 

As to the other question - `they will accept him as what.` Jesus only said to the Jews that they would receive someone on his own authority. Only through Christ can there be peace in Israel. They rejected the Prince of peace, but they will receive someone who comes in his own authority & declares a covenant, peace confederacy with Israel.  

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, Rick_Parker said:

Marilyn, upon further study and reflection:

It’s important to remember that only believing Jews will reject the anti-Christ, and they won’t do this until he claims to be God, at the beginning of the Great Tribulation. Prior to that time, the anti-Christ will appear to fulfill all of Israel’s desires. Chief among these will be giving them the go-ahead for their Temple. And in their history, another foreign king, Cyrus of Persia, was called a messiah (anointed one) by God in Isaiah 45:1. He also helped the Jews rebuild their Temple. So there is precedent for a non-Jewish King to be thought of as a messiah. Also in Ezekiel 44:7-8 there’s a prophecy that upon His return, the Lord will accuse Israel of putting foreigners, uncircumcised in heart or flesh, in charge of His sanctuary during the Great Tribulation. I see this as a reference to the anti-Christ and the false prophet. Therefore I don’t think it will be necessary for the anti-Christ to be Jewish

Hi Rick,

I agree with you concerning Ezekiel 44: 7 -8. Very good point there, bro. I needed to be reminded of that. Thank you.

As to Israel believing that the A/C is their Messiah, I don`t agree with that.

Marilyn.

 

 

[Marilyn C]

7 hours ago, HAZARD said:

 

As you yourself have said, false teaching and ideas or personal theories need correction. The Bible does specifically say where the Antichrist comes from. its only speculation to those who do not know the Scriptures, The book of Daniel makes it clear that the Antichrist will come from the ten kingdoms of the Old Roman Empire, as in Dan. 7:7-8, 23-24, and from the four divisions of the Grecian Empire, which are four of the ten, as in Dan. 8:7-9, 20-23, but it also makes it clear that he will come from the Syrian division of the four divisions of Greece, as taught in Dan. 11. The king of the north of this chapter is Syria, and the king of the south is Egypt. Wars between these two divisions of Greece are pictures in Dan. 11:5-34. Verses 35-45 portray war between these same two kingdoms "at the time of the end," showing the result of the last war between them. It states that the land of Egypt shall not escape the king of the north in this last war, thus identifying Syria as being the country from which the Antichrist must come. If the king of the North was Russia, as many Bible students now teach how could Dan 11:44 be fulfilled? What countries are north of Russia that could fight against her, as required by this verse?

The Antichrist, a man, will reign over only ten kingdoms that are yet to be formed inside the yet to be revived, Old Roman Empire. (Dan. 7:23-24). Only these ten kingdoms will give their power and kingdoms to him. (Rev.13:1; 17:12-17). Certain countries will escape his rule (Dan.11:40-44). Certain countries will make war on him at the very time he is supposed to be ruling the whole world (Dan. 11:40-44). Because he will reign only over ten countries inside the Roman Empire territory and because America is not inside that territory and never will be, and because certain countries will escape him we can scripturally conclude that he will never rule America or be a world-wide dictator. Therefore, multitudes of people of many nations will also never take the mark of the beast and they will never be killed by the Antichrist for not doing so.

Hi Hazard,

Good points there. Although I don`t agree with the Revived Roman Empire view, it seems we do agree on the conclusion, somewhat -  that the king of the north (not far north, as in Russia) but the north in the Middle East, being Syria & Iraq. Thus all the activity there now.

Marilyn.

[douggg]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi douggg,

A peace treaty - `he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice & offering...`  (Dan. 9: 27)

This covenant - Heb. `beriyth,` a compact, confederacy, league.

Compact - closely united, as agreement.

confederacy - an alliance, esp. of states.

league - a combination between states for their mutual aid.

Thus we can see that a leader will make a covenant, a confederation with Israel & so they begin their sacrifices & offerings. This will be after the Russian war, for Israel will spend 7 months burying the bodies & cleansing the land. Then they will begin their sacrifices & offerings to God.

`For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, (the far northern confederation) in order to cleanse the land.` (Ez. 39: 12)

 

As to the other question - `they will accept him as what.` Jesus only said to the Jews that they would receive someone on his own authority. Only through Christ can there be peace in Israel. They rejected the Prince of peace, but they will receive someone who comes in his own authority & declares a covenant, peace confederacy with Israel.  

Marilyn.

 

Hi Marilyn, the person "confirms" the covenant, not make it.      In Daniel 9, the covenant being talked about is the Mt. Sinai covenant as Daniel was confessing the sins of Israel.

Quote

 

4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments:

 

The new covenant in Jeremiah 31, we know to be in Christ, Jews (Judaism) interprets "new" as "renewal" of the covenant God made with them at Mt. Sinai.    So it will appear to them that the confirmation of the Mt. Sinai covenant by the Antichrist is what they are expecting.

Yes, Jesus is the Prince of Peace, but that is not what the Jews reject him of being.   They rejected him as being the messiah King of Israel.    Which Pilate had placed over Jesus's head on the cross, a plaque - Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews.       The another coming in his own name - is not a gentile with a peace plan - but a Jew the Jews will embrace as their messiah, and anoint him the King of Israel.      Antichrist does not mean peacemaker.

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by douggg

[Qnts2]

12 hours ago, douggg said:

From my discussions over at MessiahTruth.com, basically that's what they say, that the kings and priests were anointeds, and thus messiahs.   "The" messiah is the special forthcoming King of Israel to lead Israel and the world into the messianic age of peace, safety, harmony.

In theory, Jews (Judaism) follow the teachings of the Rambam, a famous Jewish theologian, the person is not said to be the messiah until after all the requirements have been fulfilled.   But that is in theory.    In Reality,  it has not been followed that way as many Jews thought Rebbe Schneerson was the messiah before the requirments were meet, some still do.

 

Rambam is a respected teacher of theology, and some of his teachings are the majority opinion, but I would not say that Judaism follows Rambam's teachings. It is a little like Christianity. Some like some of Calvin's teachings, but it can not be said that all of Christianity follows Calvin's theology. Judaism is different in it's views, and any person individually might disagree with any Rabbi. 

Very few Jewish people thought Schneerson was the Messiah. He headed a Chasidic group called either Chabad or Lubavitch. Maybe, 3% of the Jewish people regularly attended Chabad services when Shneerson was alive. (There is no formal membership). And yes, some people who were a part of the movement thought Rebbe Schneerson was the messiah. The majority of other Jewish groups stood strongly against that thought. In Judaism, people might think a person might be The Messiah, but the person is not accepted as the Messiah until the prophesies have been fulfilled. Schneerson was never accepted as the Messiah even though his followers thought he might be. The Messiah, when accepted, will be officially announced to the Jewish people. Schneerson was never officially announced to be the Messiah. The followers thinking Schneerson to be the Messiah, actually caused other Jewish groups to view Chabad as too extreme so generally at that time, Chabad was looked down upon by most of the Jewish people. 

Just some added information: Schneerson, after some in Chabad started saying he was the Messiah,  would not visit Israel as he was concerned that his followers believed that when he did, he would be announced as the Messiah, so avoided that situation.   

[douggg]

2 hours ago, Qnts2 said:

Rambam is a respected teacher of theology, and some of his teachings are the majority opinion, but I would not say that Judaism follows Rambam's teachings. It is a little like Christianity. Some like some of Calvin's teachings, but it can not be said that all of Christianity follows Calvin's theology. Judaism is different in it's views, and any person individually might disagree with any Rabbi. 

Very few Jewish people thought Schneerson was the Messiah. He headed a Chasidic group called either Chabad or Lubavitch. Maybe, 3% of the Jewish people regularly attended Chabad services when Shneerson was alive. (There is no formal membership). And yes, some people who were a part of the movement thought Rebbe Schneerson was the messiah. The majority of other Jewish groups stood strongly against that thought. In Judaism, people might think a person might be The Messiah, but the person is not accepted as the Messiah until the prophesies have been fulfilled. Schneerson was never accepted as the Messiah even though his followers thought he might be. The Messiah, when accepted, will be officially announced to the Jewish people. Schneerson was never officially announced to be the Messiah. The followers thinking Schneerson to be the Messiah, actually caused other Jewish groups to view Chabad as too extreme so generally at that time, Chabad was looked down upon by most of the Jewish people. 

Just some added information: Schneerson, after some in Chabad started saying he was the Messiah,  would not visit Israel as he was concerned that his followers believed that when he did, he would be announced as the Messiah, so avoided that situation.   

I don't think that Calvin carries the same weight in Christianity as does the Rambam in Judaism.   But your point is well taken.  

Who would be doing the announcing ?   in the past, Samuel the prophet anointed Saul and David.     imo, the false prophet will be the one who will anoint the Antichrist as the King of Israel.

Chabad is the largest Jewish organization in the world as I understand it.

Following Gog/Magog, I think messiah euphoria is going to take over any rationale.    I have suggested to Countermissionaries as a check that if the Mt. of Olives has not been split, at the time of their messiah, then the person is the Antichrist that Christians have been telling them about.

Have you heard of the Malbim ( MaLbYM ) ?    It is good to have someone, a Jew, with a Jewish background at this discussion forum, Qnts2. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by douggg

[Qnts2]

1 hour ago, douggg said:

I don't think that Calvin carries the same weight in Christianity as does the Rambam in Judaism.   But your point is well taken.  

Who would be doing the announcing ?   in the past, Samuel the prophet anointed Saul and David.     imo, the false prophet will be the one who will anoint the Antichrist as the King of Israel.

Chabad is the largest Jewish organization in the world as I understand it.

Following Gog/Magog, I think messiah euphoria is going to take over any rationale.    I have suggested to Countermissionaries as a check that if the Mt. of Olives has not been split, at the time of their messiah, then the person is the Antichrist that Christians have been telling them about.

Have you heard of the Malbim ( MaLbYM ) ?    It is good to have someone, a Jew, with a Jewish background at this discussion forum, Qnts2. 

Chabad is probably one of the more visible and vocal, but is far from the largest organization. Unlike most other organizations, which tend to be more quiet, Chabad seeks to be visible, setting up large Chanukah Menorahs in public, setting up tables on streets to teach Jewish people how to lay tefillin, and of course the so-called Chabad mobile.

Back when Schneerson was alive, the Orthodox only made up about 10% of the Jewish people in America, with most Orthodox being Modern Orthodox. Chasidim were a part of that 10% and the minority of that 10%. Chabad/Lubavitch was the larger Chasidic organization but at most they were only about 3% of the Jewish people. 

Today, with the heavy recruitment by the Lubavitch, overall, the Orthodox might be about 20%, and the Chabad Lubavitch maybe 10-12%. In the U.S., the Reform with secular Jews is the largest group. (Many secular Jewish people will say they are reform). Conservatives come in second, and last, the Orthodox. In Israel, the secular is the largest, and then the Orthodox which is much smaller. Again in Israel, the most vocal are the ultra-Orthodox Haredi.  

Yes, I have heard of the Malbim.

I am not saying that Rambams teaching did not influence Judaism, but Rashi was also highly influential. I also believe Yoseph Karo is influential but he is mainly known within Rabbinic circles. Probably the most influential, in my opinion, was Hillel the elder. Also Rabbi Judah. 

[Revelation Man]

On 5/17/2016 at 0:20 AM, Marilyn C said:

I believe that the anti-Christ is a Gentile.

His nationality is Assyrian, & He is called the King of the North. Eventually I believe he will rule the world from Babylon in Iraq, & is called the king of Babylon.

`As a lion roars, & a young lion over his prey.....So the Lord of host will come down to fight for Mount Zion & for its hill. Like birds flying about  so will the Lord of hosts defend Jerusalem. Defending, he will also deliver it; passing over, He will preserve it....Then the Assyrian shall fall by a sword not of man......` (Isa. 31: 4 - 8)

`The king (of the north - v. 40) shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt & magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, & prosper till the wrathhas been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done.` (Da. 11: 36)

 

What are your thoughts?

Marilyn.

My blog on the Birthplace of the Anti-Christ. 

The Birth Place of the Anti-Christ Revealed

Isaiah says the Anti-Christ is an Assyrian.The Anti-Christ is said to come to power via the fourth beast in the last days per Daniel Chapter Seven. The Anti-Christ is also said to arise out of the Grecian empire in the last days, so how do we reconcile these different understandings ?

This is established fairly easily, Daniel did say the understandings would be bound up until the end. The Anti-Christ in Daniel chapters seven and eight is shown, if read properly, to arise out of two kingdoms at once, but how can this be ?

Daniel chapter seven is fairly straightforward, we understand this to be about the four beast systems, the fourth beast is where the little horn (Anti-Christ) will arise out of, most everyone understands the fourth beast to have been Rome, but in the last days/end times this has to be the European Union.

Now Daniel chapter eight is explained in detail by Gabriel the angel, was the he goat (Alexander the Great) conquering Persia ( the Ram ) and Gabriel interpreted this dream for Daniel.

Daniel 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

 We should note, this is speaking of the end time, it is not speaking of Antiochus who came before Jesus was even born. The word Indignation means: ( Greek Word za'am meaning Gods Fury at Sin) so at the Last End of Indignation means right before Gods Judgment of Sin/Vials or Bowls of Gods Wrath (Revelation).

20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power. ( The Four Generals that stood up in Alexanders stead were Ptolemy , Seleucus , Cassander and Lysimachus. )

23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

This is clearly speaking about the end times/last days when the sins have come full/ bowls of Gods wrath, a fierce king shall arise out of one of the four kingdoms that stood up in Alexander the Greats Stead, speaking dark sentences (understanding Riddles and conundrums) and he comes to power. 

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: (Satan Possesses him) and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. 25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, (he claims to Be God) and by peace shall destroy many:(Through a Peace Treaty he deceives many) he shall also stand up against the Prince (Jesus) of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

 Jesus destroys the Anti-Christ his kings and their armies without hand ( with the Sword of the Spirit/Holy Spirit) by the countenance of his coming, Amen. This guy magnifies himself and says in the temple of God, I am God !! 

Now,  so many people say this is about Antiochus, so I always feel the need to prove that this is about the end times, when Gods wrath is come full. This is about the little horn/Anti-Christ. And he arises out of their kingdom in the last days,  so in essence he arises out of one of the Four Generals kingdoms in the last days, but which one ? Well, since the Anti-Christ arises out of the fourth beast also, then this other Kingdom has to lie within the borders of the European Union. Only Cassander's kingdom of Greece is in the European Union !! The "Assyrian" arising from Greece would be very, very possible since Greece shares a border with Turkey, and many, many Turks live in Greece, so the Assyrian Anti-Christ is born in Greece, and comes to power in Greece, then in the European Union. But what does John say in Revelation about the Beast that arises out of the Sea ? By the way, he was on Patmos, a small Greek Island when he saw this vision.

Rev. 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

The Main body is described by John as like a leopard !!

Put it all together, the "Assyrian" Anti-Christ is born in Greece, of Turkish parents or grandparents , he comes to power in the European Union.

This is where the Anti-Christ is from.  

 

http://mrrondonmon.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-birthplace-of-anti-christ.html