Scriptures against the false pre-tribulation rapture doctrine

[WilliamL]

4 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

William you do not fall in line with all that Omegaman believes.  He is Post and you are PreWrath.  So why quote or align yourself with someone who does not agree with your position.

Pre-wrath is post-trib, just a different version of it than he teaches. So he and I have much in agreement.

But Omegaman the person is irrelevant, it was what he wrote which was the significant thing. The scriptures he posted clearly show the Coming of the Lord and the Rapture are concurrent, not two separate events, which Ezra claims.

 

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

  On 5/20/2016 at 3:48 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

...in 1 Thess 4, the most obvious rapture verse in the Bible, the very passage where we get the word rapture (in Latin), it says this happens at THE coming of the Lord, not one of two comings of the Lord.

Then Paul, in 2 Thess, addresses it again:

 1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,

again, THE coming and again our gathering to Him

 

[Montana Marv]

William

The "day of Christ"  or the "day of the Lord".  Which is it?  Are they the same or are they different.  One sometimes refers to the receiving of our rewards, the other to events of the day.  All "the day of the Lord" are not the same meaning or of  the same time frame.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[Ezra]

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

You say, "the Rapture is about JOY whereas the Second Coming is about MOURNING, there is absolutely no way that both these things happen at the same time."  This shows complete ignorance of the end of this or any age

William,

Your personal attacks (which have been quite frequent) reveal that essentially you are quite insecure in your position, but do not wish to concede that. Personal attacks and bluster are no substitute for the truth.

What I have stated above is absolutely true, and you would have to prove from Scripture that the universal mourning produced by the Second Coming can have anything do with the Rapture. That is ludicrous, but you will not admit it.

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Matthew 24:30).

 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and theyalso which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Revelation 1:7).

[Guest shiloh357]

3 hours ago, ZacharyB said:

Yes, as you know God's wrath on the day of the Lord

will be far worse than anything the antichrist has to offer.

God's faithful remnant born-again believers will not experience God's wrath on the ungodly.

Yes, Jesus will rapture them out of harm's way on the final day of the Lord.

No, the Bible says that God's wrath is poured out for 42 months during the seals, the trumpets and bowls.   Jesus returns at Armageddon with his army and destroys what's left of the unbelievers at Armageddon.  That is the final act of God's wrath.  God's wrath is complete at that point.   I don't see where anyone is raptured at the 2nd coming

[ENOCH2010]

9 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No, the Bible says that God's wrath is poured out for 42 months during the seals, the trumpets and bowls.   Jesus returns at Armageddon with his army and destroys what's left of the unbelievers at Armageddon.  That is the final act of God's wrath.  God's wrath is complete at that point.   I don't see where anyone is raptured at the 2nd coming

No the Bible says the bowls are God's wrath.

[Guest shiloh357]

6 minutes ago, ENOCH2010 said:

No the Bible says the bowls are God's wrath.

Yes and the trumpets and the seals.  Anyone with any degree of competence knows that.

[WilliamL]

 

4 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

The "day of Christ"  or the "day of the Lord".  Which is it?  Are they the same or are they different.  One sometimes refers to the receiving of our rewards, the other to events of the day.  All "the day of the Lord" are not the same meaning or of  the same time frame.

 

2 Thes 2:1 equates "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him" with 2 Thes 2:2 "the day of Christ."

[WilliamL]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

Your personal attacks (which have been quite frequent) reveal that essentially you are quite insecure in your position, but do not wish to concede that. Personal attacks and bluster are no substitute for the truth.

I have "attacked" your teachings and logic, Ezra, not your person. Whereas you saying "you are quite insecure in your position" is a personal attack irrelevant to this topic.

And I am quite secure in my position, a product of some 43 years or so of intense study of eschatology, added on top of 10 prior years of Bible reading. Whereas you and Marv keep avoiding the tough questions put to you, which shows who is really insecure in their positions.

 

[ENOCH2010]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

Yes and the trumpets and the seals.  Anyone with any degree of competence knows that.

No the Bible says the bowls are filled with the wrath of God, it does not say that about the seals and trumpets. Saying the seals and trumpets contain the wrath of God is only your opinion, which is not in the Bible. My opinion is only the bowls contain the wrath of God, as the Bible plainly says. You shouldn't be adding your opinion to the Bible, claiming it says so. 

[WilliamL]

2 hours ago, Ezra said:

you would have to prove from Scripture that the universal mourning produced by the Second Coming can have anything do with the Rapture.

Quoting Omegaman one more time:

7 hours ago, WilliamL said:

...in 1 Thess 4, the most obvious rapture verse in the Bible, the very passage where we get the word rapture (in Latin), it says this happens at THE coming of the Lord, not one of two comings of the Lord.

Since the Rapture takes place at "the coming of the Lord," as 1 Thes. 4:15-17 clearly tell us, then simple logic says that the mourning takes place also at the same time.

"[E]very eye will see Him" "coming in the clouds of heaven"-- that is, the elect being raptured, the tribes of the earth who "mourn" in fear for being proven wrong in their rebellion against him, and the until-then-blinded-in-unbelief Jews "who pierced him." Rev. 1:7