Is the mark of the beast here?

[Diaste]

11 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Not sure one should call Hades the Bottomless Pit. as it is not mentions as such in Luke 16.  We read in verses 22 and 23 "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."  I would say the bottomless pit is just that, a place in the spirit world where we cannot see into and have no idea what it looks like.

Maybe. But the several references in Job and Psalms to the 'pit' from which the soul is saved, is strikingly similar to the pit from which the beast ascends. Both are a 'pit'. So it's not a stretch to liken the rich man in the 'pit' of the OT. 'Hades', 'the grave', 'the pit' are synonymous in these examples. So the idea here is that a dead person can indeed be in the 'pit', and it's not a logical somersault to understand the beast that 'was, is not, and yet is' is killed, goes to the pit, and is resurrected, thus fulfilling the prophecy of Rev 17.

But the main point I was making in the beginning was that the beast does not arise under the auspices of any current world organization. Whether the 'pit' is the 'bottomless pit' or not is immaterial to the topic. The beast is coming from the area of Babylon, is religious in the extreme, will perpetrate forced conversions and is the head of a brutal and destructive kingdom populated by the fanatical. 

 

[Diaste]

11 minutes ago, other one said:

I don't think I could agree that Hades and the Pit are the same place..  the bottomless pit would be Tartarus where the Angels that left thier place and came here were thrown in chains.  The word that the bottomless pit comes from is basically a place of holding....   a prison or cistern for holding water.

 

It would help if so many different Hebrew and Greek words were not translated into the same word in English.

Which helps my point that the beast can be killed, enter the 'holding place' and after a short, predetermined, amount of time is released and empowered by Satan, by the Father's leave. Albeit perhaps possessed by demonic forces, though about that I'm not dogmatic.

[other one]

I'll just say that it's a bit too much of a stretch for me and leave it at that.

[other one]

1 minute ago, Diaste said:

Which helps my point that the beast can be killed, enter the 'holding place' and after a short, predetermined, amount of time is released and empowered by Satan, by the Father's leave. Albeit perhaps possessed by demonic forces, though about that I'm not dogmatic.

but I would say that humans do not go there....    and the antichrist is not a human, but a fallen angel that is released from Tartarus.   A being with knowledge and abilities far beyond mankind.....   and that's why the world will fall at his feet and demand that he become the world's king....    and it's no stretch that he will make himself above God.....   and he has been a king here in the past.....   but that discussion is several books long.

[OneLight]

20 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Maybe. But the several references in Job and Psalms to the 'pit' from which the soul is saved, is strikingly similar to the pit from which the beast ascends. Both are a 'pit'. So it's not a stretch to liken the rich man in the 'pit' of the OT. 'Hades', 'the grave', 'the pit' are synonymous in these examples. So the idea here is that a dead person can indeed be in the 'pit', and it's not a logical somersault to understand the beast that 'was, is not, and yet is' is killed, goes to the pit, and is resurrected, thus fulfilling the prophecy of Rev 17.

But the main point I was making in the beginning was that the beast does not arise under the auspices of any current world organization. Whether the 'pit' is the 'bottomless pit' or not is immaterial to the topic. The beast is coming from the area of Babylon, is religious in the extreme, will perpetrate forced conversions and is the head of a brutal and destructive kingdom populated by the fanatical.

Job being the oldest book of the bible could very well mean that there were much fewer words to use back then.  Who knows, but I do not see this in the same light as you do.  Just because one uses the word pit does not mean that it is the bottomless pit.

[warrior12]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

But the real issue is why pick spiritual possession for the reality of the mark of the beast when scripture prophesies a physical mark?

Jesus said if thy right eye offend thee pluck it out.  That is plain english, yet we don't as it would be foolishness to do it and is symbolic.   So, here nobody really knows what is the mark and everyone is throwing in their two cents. So i have put forth what is think could be a real possibility and did not say for sure that is what would be how it would be implemented.   I have read many things here that is far ,far conjectures and i let it go where it may be or follow up with a question or asking for some more info.   We are in this forum to share our thoughts, agree and disagree.   I will say this though, there are many intellectual men and women here that are versed in scripture that i only thank God for as they have spent many years and time studying.  They can bring correction and point out errors that the babe in Christ and those who are new, can see different angles to scripture.  On the other hand, from my experience with conversation and general life, i have found very, very few who can agree or comprehend what i say about spritual things, thus the reason for not going into details.  

The remark i made, was not out of thin air and no matter what anyone says, they cannot take away what i have gone through and witnessed.  It can be truly a bizarre for those who have not been there, nevertheless it is very true. I will gladly trade place to anyone as to affirm the spiritual real as i have experienced it, but that is not in my control.  I have to give an account for what i say here, so it does not matter who agrees or disagree, all that matters is i convey the truth to something that is indeed very difficult to explain.   Hope this satisfy your why ?.

Just a note on the topic. Satan is a spiritual being, with spiritual powers to inflict and play with your mind as you so agree.  You think christians are immune from his attacks. How are you going to chip 9 billon people and possible more and EVERY single man must be in the picture.  

[warrior12]

6 minutes ago, Abby-Joy said:

For various reasons, the population will be greatly reduced ...  but it won't be difficult to chip or otherwise mark people ... think how quickly vast amounts have been given SS cards ... or birth certificates ... plus, when people are hungry, they will be lining up for it...

There are preppers out there, that are so skilled, that it will take an army to find them and very difficult task, not saying it cannot be done.  EVERY SINGLE man earth man has to be presented with the mark.  You are thinking of our current system of government and time of relative peace.  

[Diaste]

55 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

Jesus said if thy right eye offend thee pluck it out.  That is plain english, yet we don't as it would be foolishness to do it and is symbolic.   So, here nobody really knows what is the mark and everyone is throwing in their two cents. So i have put forth what is think could be a real possibility and did not say for sure that is what would be how it would be implemented.   I have read many things here that is far ,far conjectures and i let it go where it may be or follow up with a question or asking for some more info.   We are in this forum to share our thoughts, agree and disagree.   I will say this though, there are many intellectual men and women here that are versed in scripture that i only thank God for as they have spent many years and time studying.  They can bring correction and point out errors that the babe in Christ and those who are new, can see different angles to scripture.  On the other hand, from my experience with conversation and general life, i have found very, very few who can agree or comprehend what i say about spritual things, thus the reason for not going into details.  

The remark i made, was not out of thin air and no matter what anyone says, they cannot take away what i have gone through and witnessed.  It can be truly a bizarre for those who have not been there, nevertheless it is very true. I will gladly trade place to anyone as to affirm the spiritual real as i have experienced it, but that is not in my control.  I have to give an account for what i say here, so it does not matter who agrees or disagree, all that matters is i convey the truth to something that is indeed very difficult to explain.   Hope this satisfy your why ?.

Just a note on the topic. Satan is a spiritual being, with spiritual powers to inflict and play with your mind as you so agree.  You think christians are immune from his attacks. How are you going to chip 9 billon people and possible more and EVERY single man must be in the picture.  

It doesn't answer the question. It looks like a rationale to ignore clear scripture.

[Diaste]

55 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

Jesus said if thy right eye offend thee pluck it out.  That is plain english, yet we don't as it would be foolishness to do it and is symbolic.   So, here nobody really knows what is the mark and everyone is throwing in their two cents. So i have put forth what is think could be a real possibility and did not say for sure that is what would be how it would be implemented.   I have read many things here that is far ,far conjectures and i let it go where it may be or follow up with a question or asking for some more info.   We are in this forum to share our thoughts, agree and disagree.   I will say this though, there are many intellectual men and women here that are versed in scripture that i only thank God for as they have spent many years and time studying.  They can bring correction and point out errors that the babe in Christ and those who are new, can see different angles to scripture.  On the other hand, from my experience with conversation and general life, i have found very, very few who can agree or comprehend what i say about spritual things, thus the reason for not going into details.  

The remark i made, was not out of thin air and no matter what anyone says, they cannot take away what i have gone through and witnessed.  It can be truly a bizarre for those who have not been there, nevertheless it is very true. I will gladly trade place to anyone as to affirm the spiritual real as i have experienced it, but that is not in my control.  I have to give an account for what i say here, so it does not matter who agrees or disagree, all that matters is i convey the truth to something that is indeed very difficult to explain.   Hope this satisfy your why ?.

Just a note on the topic. Satan is a spiritual being, with spiritual powers to inflict and play with your mind as you so agree.  You think christians are immune from his attacks. How are you going to chip 9 billon people and possible more and EVERY single man must be in the picture.  

It doesn't answer the question. It looks like a rationale to ignore clear scripture.

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, OneLight said:

Job being the oldest book of the bible could very well mean that there were much fewer words to use back then.  Who knows, but I do not see this in the same light as you do.  Just because one uses the word pit does not mean that it is the bottomless pit.

Not a great argument. Job being the oldest book in the Bible could mean the sun was green and the grass was blue.

But it could very well refer to the bottomless pit unless some evidence clearly refutes that idea. There is positive evidence that souls go to a pit from Job and David, and likely a few more, making such and idea plausible.