Words of Jesus proves pre-Trib rapture is false

[Marilyn C]

13 minutes ago, OakWood said:

 .......we are saved, and that is the good news.

 

Hi Oakwood,

Yes Praise the Lord we are saved by the precious blood of Jesus. Soooo........saved from what?

Marilyn. 

[OakWood]

8 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Oakwood,

Yes Praise the Lord we are saved by the precious blood of Jesus. Soooo........saved from what?

Marilyn. 

What do you mean saved from what? Saved from eternal death and hell. Saved as in...... saved... as in, we receive the gift of eternal salvation. What other saved is there?

[Guest shiloh357]

36 minutes ago, OakWood said:

Post-trib, mid-Trib, 3/4 Trib.... what does it matter?

The Trib will start and then:- Christians will suffer, Christians will endure, Christians will experience pain, loss, grief etc..... Nobody will be raptured before it starts. Nobody is special. Christians have been persecuted for centuries. Nero threw Christians to the lions. ISIS kills Christians every day. There will be no rapture before the Trib. We are to face the Trib - live through the Trib, or die during the Trib. We will not be lifted to safety by God before this starts!

Only when God decides to redeem his people and punish the wicked will we be lifted to safety, and that is when Jesus returns - not before. And Jesus will not return before the Trib begins to lift us all to safety. He returns only once.

We are the tribulation saints. We are not a special case. Christians died for their faith before we were born and Christians will die for their faith up until the Tribulation and during the Tribulation. There is no special generation of Christians that are exempt from this and we are not exempt. Don't wait around expecting a rapture to occur because it's not going to happen before the Tribulation.

If you live long enough you will be around to see the antiChrist come to power, you will see his reign begin and you will see him perform miracles but you will not be deceived by him because you have read the script and you know the story. You will experience his tyranny and you will live on this Earth when the persecution starts and you may even experience his persecution yourself. You may even be martyred and beheaded for your faith. But if you survive all this, you will see Christ return, and as he returns you will be lifted up (raptured) to be with him, and while you are safe in his arms and safely away from this Earth, he will pass judgement on the inhabitants and non-believers who are left here.

There is no pre-Trib rapture. Neither you nor I deserve to escape the Trib (unless you're lucky enough to die before it happens). But we are saved, and that is the good news.

 

It almost sounds like you want to go through the Tribulation

[OakWood]

18 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

It almost sounds like you want to go through the Tribulation

I don't. A pre-Trib rapture would be a pleasant surprise and a pleasant way to be proved wrong. Nobody would promote a post-Trib rapture for personal benefit because they have nothing to gain. But Christians have often been persecuted (not always, admittedly - in fact we once had the upper hand). History is full of Christian persecutions.

I sat on the fence for years without bias, but then I discovered the logistical failures of the pre-Trib rapture, the history of its teaching (and an audit trail of false teachers connected with it), and a tendency for some pre-Tribbers (but not all) to ignore parts of the book of Revelation because of the belief that it doesn't apply to them. No other doctrine that I know of encourages people to ignore scripture.

I now think that the pre-Trib rapture is false. It doesn't make sense and it may even be dangerous teaching. That is why I am aggressively against it... not to deliberately ruffle feathers, lose friends or annoy people.... but to warn them. Good Christians need no warning against the pre-Trib doctrine because they will adapt if it fails to come true, but new Christians whose faith is weak and have built up a false hope will be incredibly disappointed and unprepared for what comes after.

And if I'm honest with myself, even if I had heard of neither theory before and I studied the Bible for the first time, I would come to the conclusion that there will be a Tribulation and we will suffer it, but I would never come to the conclusion that we will be lifted to safety beforehand unless somebody had taught me that theory and put the idea into my head in the first place. It just isn't there unless you place it there....

 

 

[Guest Robert]

43 minutes ago, OakWood said:

Post-trib, mid-Trib, 3/4 Trib.... what does it matter?

The Trib will start and then:- Christians will suffer, Christians will endure, Christians will experience pain, loss, grief etc..... Nobody will be raptured before it starts. Nobody is special. Christians have been persecuted for centuries. Nero threw Christians to the lions. ISIS kills Christians every day. There will be no rapture before the Trib. We are to face the Trib - live through the Trib, or die during the Trib. We will not be lifted to safety by God before this starts!

Only when God decides to redeem his people and punish the wicked will we be lifted to safety, and that is when Jesus returns - not before. And Jesus will not return before the Trib begins to lift us all to safety. He returns only once.

We are the tribulation saints. We are not a special case. Christians died for their faith before we were born and Christians will die for their faith up until the Tribulation and during the Tribulation. There is no special generation of Christians that are exempt from this and we are not exempt. Don't wait around expecting a rapture to occur because it's not going to happen before the Tribulation.

If you live long enough you will be around to see the antiChrist come to power, you will see his reign begin and you will see him perform miracles but you will not be deceived by him because you have read the script and you know the story. You will experience his tyranny and you will live on this Earth when the persecution starts and you may even experience his persecution yourself. You may even be martyred and beheaded for your faith. But if you survive all this, you will see Christ return, and as he returns you will be lifted up (raptured) to be with him, and while you are safe in his arms and safely away from this Earth, he will pass judgement on the inhabitants and non-believers who are left here.

There is no pre-Trib rapture. Neither you nor I deserve to escape the Trib (unless you're lucky enough to die before it happens). But we are saved, and that is the good news.

 

Scripture makes it clear that more would die in the Trib than would survive, and it would be the absolute worst of all times, more so than any time before or to come. IF you're convinced that we will be here for the entire Tribulation (I don't think we will be), what spiritual preparations have you made to ensure your communication with Jesus Christ is as clear as possible, so that you would have the strength of faith to endure the ordeals to come? If you truly believe we'll be here for this, then you are going to need strength and faith you never even dreamed was possible. And you'll need to know your Bible backwards and forwards without an online version, or even a pocket one. In the Trib; you might not have a copy.

Either way you look at it (pre-trib or not), we're running out of time.

 

[FresnoJoe]

7 hours ago, OakWood said:

If you live long enough you will be around to see the anti-Christ come to power
you will see his reign begin and you will see him perform miracles

And Then You Will

"I will leave and go back to my place until they admit their offense and seek my face. When affliction comes to them, they will eagerly seek me." Hosea 5:15 (International Standard Version)

See The Salvation Of All Israel

“Behold, I am going to deal at that time With all your oppressors, I will save the lame And gather the outcast, And I will turn their shame into praise and renown In all the earth. Zephaniah 3:19 (New American Standard 1977)

Glory~!

[FresnoJoe]

5 hours ago, RobertS said:

Scripture makes it clear that more would die in the Trib than would survive, and it would be the absolute worst of all times, more so than any time before or to come.

IF you're convinced that we will be here for the entire Tribulation (I don't think we will be), what spiritual preparations have you made to ensure your communication with Jesus Christ is as clear as possible, so that you would have the strength of faith to endure the ordeals to come?

If you truly believe we'll be here for this, then you are going to need strength and faith you never even dreamed was possible. And you'll need to know your Bible backwards and forwards without an online version, or even a pocket one. In the Trib; you might not have a copy.

Either way you look at it (pre-trib or not), we're running out of time.

Get Ready

When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee. Isaiah 43:2

Get Jesus

And the LORD, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed. Deuteronomy 31:6

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Marilyn C]

17 hours ago, OakWood said:

What do you mean saved from what? Saved from eternal death and hell. Saved as in...... saved... as in, we receive the gift of eternal salvation. What other saved is there?

Hi Oakwood,

Thank you for replying. We often say `We are saved,` but really never finish the sentence. So I was interested in your thoughts. You said `saved from eternal death.` I so agree with you there bro. And we know that eternal death is the punishment that God will give to those who reject His saving grace. So that is God`s punishment in eternity, however we also know from God`s word that in time, God will also punish the wicked.

` ...but to those who are self-seeking & do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness - indignation & wrath, tribulation & anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first & also of the Greek;...` (Roman 2: 8 & 9)

So I would say that Jesus, by His precious blood, saves us from God`s punishment, in time & in eternity.

Marilyn.

[HAZARD]

I wont be here to see the tribulation because;

When Christ comes and meets those of us who are worthy, in the clouds, we will be taken out of the world and will be with Him until He returns at His second coming with the armies of Heaven and His saints.

1 Thess. 4:16-17, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
v. 17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

So,

Luke 21:36, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

[TehMill]

Jesus was a post tribulation preacher

 

There are not multiple comings in the clouds with great power and glory, trumps and gatherings

 

The one spoken of by Jesus in the "little apocalypse" is the one spoken about in 2.Thess.2.

 

"AFTER the tribulation of those days.....they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory...He will send His angels to gather the elect."

 

Pre trib doctrine was foisted upon the church by Darby, rejected by British theologians but accepted by American theologians.