Does God will that some of his children be raped, tortured, or murdered?

[Guest Robert]

The Devil does as he does because of two things:

1) He is evil

2) He is the "god of this world"

When man sinned in the garden, man essentially handed over the reigns of this planet to Satan, effectively telling the Lord that we didn't want His ways. God had every right to turn His back on man, destroy this planet and start over; instead, He executed a plan to save mankind.

So, why doesn't God just "nuke" Satan and all those who hurt anyone (the innocent, children, etc)? God is absolutely pure, and should He do that, He would essentially be saying salvation by the blood of Jesus Christ was not enough, nor was it accepted. He would then have to destroy every single man, woman, child, animal, plant and the very earth itself, then He could turn His attention to the 1/3 of the angels who fell and Satan himself. ALL evil (from genocide to the smallest theft of a paperclip) would have to be punished without exception. The fact that Christ went to the cross is the ONLY mitigating circumstance that prevented all that past, present and future.

Here's a novel idea: instead of us blaming God all the time, how about the blame gets placed on the two responsible for all this in the first place: Satan, for his evil, maliciousness, murder, lies and utter brutality, and mankind for giving Satan his foothold on this planet in the first place.

God is innocent of any and all charges, and it's about time we recognize that. He didn't do a single thing wrong, EVER.

[enoob57]

23 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

How can you give someone  permission to harm your child if you don't want them to? 

Before Satan could slaughter JOb's family he had to go before the throne of God and petition him and God said granted, you  can do whatever you want to anything he has,  just don't lay a finger on him. 

After killing his family he asked God if he could put job in physical agony with illness and torment  him with sores,  boils,  and diseases,  and God changed his mind and gave Satan permission torture him as he please. 

The book of Job is the word of God,  which means every word was inspired by God. 

The Devil also wasn't showing any signs of wanting to go after Job before God pointed him out saying "have you considered my servant Job? "  

God wanted Satan to kill Jobs family... God decides what is good,  so I can't accuse God of doing any wrong,  but if you give someone permission to kill your kids,  it's because you want them to kill your kids. 

How could anyone rationally argue otherwise? 

Another reason the free -will argument doesn't hold much water is because police intervene all the time to stop crime. 

More than a billion people in our world have the Holy -Spirit.  Yet when do we ever hear the Holy-spirit tell us who is the terrorist or who are the people responsible for all these missing children, so that we can notify the police and take the necessary measures to keep our children  safe?   

If God told us what to do, that is not even a microscopic violation of free -will  

Your problem is your trying to straighten out sin which is confusion and it cannot be done for it is confusion and can only be dealt with as God has written down ... Gen - Rev... which is the answer to all and it can renew your mind so that you can reason past all this confusion and have the fruit of The Spirit even in confusions midst! I no longer live in the problem of sin for I have been delivered my new residence is here Col 3:1-3... The radiating factor of this living causes those around me to look more deeply into why I have joy when there should be sorrow, peace when there should be strife etc...  Love, Steven

[other one]

If God's will was being done on earth, why would he tell us that we should pray that it should be?

[spiderman1917]

3 hours ago, other one said:

If God's will was being done on earth, why would he tell us that we should pray that it should be?

He likes it when we pray for his will rather than ours. 

Sort of like "thy kingdom come "  it's here but will be as it is in heaven exactly when God has planned.... He knows when his kingdom will be on earth as it is in heaven.  

Our prayers are not going to change the date,(he knows the date and how it will all play out exactly ) but he wants us to pray about it anyway...by praying for his will rather than our own, we glorify him and surrender...it doesn't mean his will isn't being done. 

"Thy will be done "  of course his will is going to be done... Scripture makes it clear he is in control.... How can we say our prayers some how change whether or not his will is done.....

That would imply that he isn't fully in control or that his plans will not happen precisely when and how he wants them to. 

Edited August 15, 2016 by spiderman1917

[spiderman1917]

11 hours ago, RobertS said:

The Devil does as he does because of two things:

1) He is evil

2) He is the "god of this world"

When man sinned in the garden, man essentially handed over the reigns of this planet to Satan, effectively telling the Lord that we didn't want His ways. God had every right to turn His back on man, destroy this planet and start over; instead, He executed a plan to save mankind.

So, why doesn't God just "nuke" Satan and all those who hurt anyone (the innocent, children, etc)? God is absolutely pure, and should He do that, He would essentially be saying salvation by the blood of Jesus Christ was not enough, nor was it accepted. He would then have to destroy every single man, woman, child, animal, plant and the very earth itself, then He could turn His attention to the 1/3 of the angels who fell and Satan himself. ALL evil (from genocide to the smallest theft of a paperclip) would have to be punished without exception. The fact that Christ went to the cross is the ONLY mitigating circumstance that prevented all that past, present and future.

Here's a novel idea: instead of us blaming God all the time, how about the blame gets placed on the two responsible for all this in the first place: Satan, for his evil, maliciousness, murder, lies and utter brutality, and mankind for giving Satan his foothold on this planet in the first place.

God is innocent of any and all charges, and it's about time we recognize that. He didn't do a single thing wrong, EVER.

Of course he didn't do anything wrong... If he gives the Devil permission to kill his children as he did with Job,  that isn't wrong,  that is right.   And could someone actually answer some of my questions?    

If someone is babysitting your child and they give someone (who they weren't scared of ) permission to kill your child,  would you believe their argument that they didn't want them to harm your child?   

If your child is murdered,  God knew it would happen right?   If he didn't want it to,  would it be a violation of free-will to tell you a few years in advance so you could flee the area (like Joseph,  Mary,  and Jesus warned to flee to Egypt or be killed ) or try to get the man put away?  

No, when God was forming the child in the womb he knew his/her destiny was to be victimized (also the destiny God arranged for Jesus ).  

I didn't say it was a bad thing or that God ever does anything wrong.    If God predestined some people to be torture and murder victims,  it is a good thing. 

I trust that what God gives permission for people to do to his children is for the greater good or he would show them clearly how to avoid such a fate. 

Actually, without a doubt, there were many times I messed up royally when I was putting God first in all things and spending practically all my free time in prayer and studying the sacred writings. 

The ways I messed up were due to confusion primarily, which was a direct result of God not giving the enlightenment and virtues I prayed for thousands of times.

Look at how divided people are who seek God. God refuses to enlighten them or give them understanding, so that is the primary cause of the confusion.

The only logical conclusion I can think of is that they are how God wants them to be at that time or he'd give them the graces they are praying for. 

Many people who dedicate their lives to prayer, fasting , and seeking the truth, come to opposite conclusions that they both 100% believe are correct.

Absolutely God wants them to be confused (or God isn't able to give the grace [which can't be true ])

because the only way they wouldn't be confused is if God chose to properly guide enlighten , and speak clearly to them ( as they were praying all their lives for. ) 

The understanding I have, I believe to be correct... I prayed for years for understanding (first and foremost, the understanding needed to do his will ) .... 

so, if I'm confused on this issue it is absolutely because A) he wants me to be confused, or B) he isn't capable of giving people understanding

I'm going with A.   And no,  I don't want to be confused.... I want to have the mind and heart of Christ to be his obedient instrument in all things.   Been praying for it and hoping for it persistently and daily for years now. 

Whatever confusion I have is in proportion to how much God answered my prayers for understanding and  how much God wants me to be confused.

I'm completely convinced  he wants me to believe all this.    

Also,  if a person reads,  doesn't understand,  or misinterprets the Bible,  they are not at fault for God choosing to only give a small percentage of people the ability to properly interpret Scripture. 

(and yes,  the majority of Christians do not know how to properly interpret the book,  because 2,000 years of studying it and look how divided we are.... We are far more dogmatically divided now than we were 1500 years ago. )

God decides what's right or wrong.   If you give a monster permission to harm your children,  it is the right thing to do (if you are God) therefore I'm not blaming God for doing wrong. 

Also, Satan is only the God of this world to the extent that God allows him to be and as long as God wants him to be.   Which means, God wants him at this time to be God of this world. 

If you give your rebellious , hedonistic, foolish, and mischevious step-son your house, Lexus, credit card, and bank account, knowing what he will do with it, you are responsible for enabling him, empowering him, and asking for it.  This is 100% clear and obvious to me, so how am I at fault for believing what looks so clear and obvious?  If I am mistaken, in Jesus name may I know the truth and obey God always. 

What Father wouldn't grant such a request.  A son who wants to do his will is asking only for the grace to do so without cease...My desire is to do his will above all things...why would he not grant it?? please explain.

...he said ask in Jesus name and it will be done so I'm trusting my father has been faithful to his word and wants me to understand things this way.  To see things differently must come from God.  At this time I find it mind-boggling that anyone who believes God has control of all things would think I'm wrong in mistaken in this assessment.

Edited August 15, 2016 by spiderman1917

[RustyAngeL]

On 8/14/2016 at 3:15 PM, spiderman1917 said:

Also, if you know your infant wants to stick a fork in an electrical socket, and that the infant is quite foolish, not knowing the outcome, and you knew childproofing them would be a good idea but decided to let the infant learn his lesson by electrocution, should we blame the infant?

Sometimes the person misusing free-will doesn't know what they are doing, and they never will unless God enlightens them.  Many of you who read my posts will say I'm confused , but I'm just showing you the understanding that Christ gave me...

I pray everyday that I'd understand and obey him , and this is the understanding he gave me.  If I'm confused , it's clearly because he wants me to be confused or he'd give me the enlightenment I've prayed for thousands of times.

And yes I've read what the Bible has to say about it.  God has total control and can give any grace without it costing him anything.  People are predisposed with a destiny to be tortured, murdered, and live in agony.  God knows this from the moment they're born.  He could tell the child about the monster that plans on using, abusing, and killing him/her...could tell the Child to leave the state, run, notify the police, take a different route home from school this day, don't walk down that alley, don't get in that person's car. 

 That is obvious.  The Bible also in many ways has further clouded my understanding on this because I encounter so many verses in Scripture that lead people to opposite conclusions.

Free-will is completely irrelevant to what I'm getting at.

How is giving someone understanding, giving them a healthy mind, emotions, or sexuality (if they want it), telling your child not to get in the car with a serial killer, giving someone the gift of discernment, or notifying the police of something a violation of free-will?  Since it isn't, free-will is not the issue here.

Since the question wasn't answered, I'll ask it again.  Let me ask you, if you give a registered sex-offender freedom to rome your house and you know he's gonna rape your kid, could you really claim you didn't want it to happen? It is truly absurd for me to think otherwise. If you are going to say God doesn't want such things,  please first answer that question. 

The Devil cannot harm anyone unless God gives him permission.  So, if someone is babysitting your child and they give someone permission to kill your child, is there any way that person can convince you that they didn't want your child to be harmed?  Please answer the question.  Thanks!

 

The question has been answered, as usual you aren't listening.  And why would anyone be dumb enough to let that type of person  "roam" your home.  OY VEY you really don't accept a sane answer do you?

[other one]

4 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

He likes it when we pray for his will rather than ours. 

Sort of like "thy kingdom come "  it's here but will be as it is in heaven exactly when God has planned.... He knows when his kingdom will be on earth as it is in heaven.  

Our prayers are not going to change the date,(he knows the date and how it will all play out exactly ) but he wants us to pray about it anyway...by praying for his will rather than our own, we glorify him and surrender...it doesn't mean his will isn't being done. 

"Thy will be done "  of course his will is going to be done... Scripture makes it clear he is in control.... How can we say our prayers some how change whether or not his will is done.....

That would imply that he isn't fully in control or that his plans will not happen precisely when and how he wants them to. 

He has let Satan run amuck here since Adam and Eve, and have whatever control he can get people to give him. I agree he can put a stop of it all any time he decides to.... but in the mean time he's letting Satan and non believers go.   I know personally that he changes the lives of believers for he has more than once for me and my wife

Why he's doing things this way would be pure conjecture. I guess what I'm saying that his will is not being done here because he wants it that way....  which is in some minds makes rape and death his will.  I'm sure some day we will see why.

[missmuffet]

4 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

He likes it when we pray for his will rather than ours. 

Sort of like "thy kingdom come "  it's here but will be as it is in heaven exactly when God has planned.... He knows when his kingdom will be on earth as it is in heaven.  

Our prayers are not going to change the date,(he knows the date and how it will all play out exactly ) but he wants us to pray about it anyway...by praying for his will rather than our own, we glorify him and surrender...it doesn't mean his will isn't being done. 

"Thy will be done "  of course his will is going to be done... Scripture makes it clear he is in control.... How can we say our prayers some how change whether or not his will is done.....

That would imply that he isn't fully in control or that his plans will not happen precisely when and how he wants them to. 

I agree. I am not going to tell God want to do I ask for God's Will be done for His Glory

[spiderman1917]

1 hour ago, RustyAngeL said:

The question has been answered, as usual you aren't listening.

Let's simplify the question.   If your babysitter gives a man He/she is not scared of,  permission to kill your child,  would you agree with them claiming they didn't want any harm to come to your child?   

Please say "yes" or no.  You have dodged many of my questions .

The shepherd has control of whether or not the wolf can harm his sheep 

Edited August 15, 2016 by spiderman1917

[spiderman1917]

20 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

I agree. I am not going to tell God want to do I ask for God's Will be done for His Glory

Amen!

At least my premise is that God's plan is good,  rather than denying that his plan is taking place. 

He gave the Devil permission to deceive,  lead astray,  kill,  and destroy (but only to the extent God allows him ). 

Since it is God's plan,  I'm saying its good.   To say otherwise is to take away from the glory and omnipotence of God by stating that the Devil is able to alter his plan. 

My Dad is wiser and more powerful than that!     he knew what the Devil would do before he made him. 

Edited August 15, 2016 by spiderman1917