hmbld Posted August 18, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,491 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 1,457 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1971 Share Posted August 18, 2016 On August 17, 2016 at 8:08 AM, spiderman1917 said: No you've got it all wrong... God wants some people confused which is why he doesnt enlighten them or give them understanding... God wants Satan to confuse, lead astray, torment, steal, kill, and destroy.... If you put a snake in a mouse cage, knowing it will eat the mouse, it is because you wanted him to. The Devil harming us is part of God's plan. God has to give him permission to harm us. But here is where you are so mistaken. I'm not accusing God of any wrong. If God wants people tortured and killed , it is to glorify him , and therefore is beautiful. God decides what is good so he does no wrong. No, I don't want people to be robots, but if Dad knows years in advance that a serial killer is going to kill his daughter, He could warn her about what she can do to stay safe. If he knows who the killer is and when and where and how he's going to kill her, and doesn't warn her year after year about the danger, it is because that was the destiny he wanted for her. When God was forming the murderer in his mother's womb, he knew he was destined to kill her. It was part of his plan that her Destiny was to be a victim. The Destiny he chose for his son was to be stripped down naked and humiliated before all, spit upon, mocked, scourged, whipped, lacerated, crowned with thorns, crucified, and pierced with a lance. That is absolutely what God had predestined his son for many hundreds of years in advance, therefore it is beautiful and glorified him. If a person is theologically confused and leading people astray, God could open their eyes to see the truth without a microscopic violation of free-will. So, absolutely I pray for that. I said God wants some of his children to be tortured and murdered (which is obviously true ), I didn't say God did anything wrong. I might understand your point, or I might not lol. Anyway, scripture tells us quite a bit about God's nature, His characteristics, etc.,-His holiness. I find your posts trying to use human logic to determine God's motives or characteristics, which I think does not work so well. When God uses something evil, and brings good out of it, does not = God causing the evil. God created His creation perfect, so I would say God does not want anyone tortured or killed. Free will response being a cop-out and when and whether He gives some discernment so they can protect themselves, really is up to our all-knowing God. On August 16, 2016 at 0:28 PM, RustyAngeL said: He is the shepherd... The wolf is on his leash...the wolf gets to eat the sheep only if the shepherd gives him permission... God gives Satan permission to lead people astray, torment, confuse, torture, and kill.... It is part of Gods plan I think there is more to this than you are presenting so far. Have you given thought to how scripture provides us with an understanding of God's nature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman1917 Posted August 18, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,028 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 810 Days Won: 2 Joined: 02/24/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 18, 2016 7 minutes ago, hmbld said: I might understand your point, or I might not lol. Anyway, scripture tells us quite a bit about God's nature, His characteristics, etc.,-His holiness. I find your posts trying to use human logic to determine God's motives or characteristics, which I think does not work so well. When God uses something evil, and brings good out of it, does not = God causing the evil. God created His creation perfect, so I would say God does not want anyone tortured or killed. Free will response being a cop-out and when and whether He gives some discernment so they can protect themselves, really is up to our all-knowing God. I think there is more to this than you are presenting so far. Have you given thought to how scripture provides us with an understanding of God's nature? Yes, God's nature is manifested in many ways that lead people to many divided conclusions. God does order someone to be killed for working on the wrong day of the week... I don't even think Islamic extremists establish laws that call for the death of those who work on the wrong day of the week. Interesting Scripture, God did. He isn't a blood-thirsty sadist, but he clearly wants us to suffer a lot here, and the suffering glorifies us and him for all eternity.... But yes, he may have destined you and your children to be tortured , humiliated, and murdered. It doesn't end there and you won't regret it. @Omegaman it may be you permit your children to do what you don't like , but isn't that sometimes because you don't think there's really anything you can do? There was a boy with torrets syndrome at the library yesterday, and his outbursts were loud, disturbing, and scary. The Librarian gave him permission to be that way despite it disrupting the entire place. God on the other hand is the only one with the remedy to heal him, but God wants him to be that way. Our hands are often tied regarding how much we can help our children and Friends. We eventually surrender to the fact that there's nothing we can do. That is not the case with God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted August 19, 2016 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted August 19, 2016 5 hours ago, spiderman1917 said: @Omegaman it may be you permit your children to do what you don't like , but isn't that sometimes because you don't think there's really anything you can do? I do not recall thinking that there was nothing I could do, though that might well be true. I think that part of growing up, is learning from your own mistakes, and at times I just allowed them to gain independence, so that they can get bye without me, I cannot and will not, always be there for them. God as a father has a whole different position, He can see the outcome, and He can make good out of bad for those who love Him. Also, my focus, is on the limits years I have in this live, and knowing that my kids also have limited life span. The best thing I can do, is to teach them to love, respect, and obey their Creator, and hope that He chooses to give them eternal life. It is even possible, that for some of those victims that grieve your heart, that those tragedies will be tools to bring the victims to depend on Him, or even to drive others involved, whether loved ones of the victims or even the perpetrators of these horrors, to earnestly seek His help, mercy and forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adara Posted August 19, 2016 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 74 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/15/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2016 9 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: It is even possible, that for some of those victims that grieve your heart, that those tragedies will be tools to bring the victims to depend on Him, or even to drive others involved, whether loved ones of the victims or even the perpetrators of these horrors, to earnestly seek His help, mercy and forgiveness. Yes! Exactly! I was sexually abused on and off throughout my childhood. Ultimately, that pain is what brought me to Jesus. @spiderman1917 I've read your posts on this thread quite a few times. At first, my initial response was emotionally based -- why would God want bad things to happen to His children? God is good. God is Just. It is not just for God to want bad things to happen to people who love him, or to innocent children. I am a Calvinist; I believe God wrote everything ahead of time. He wrote our beginning, He wrote what's going to happen throughout our life, and He wrote our end. He created people to do evil things that would accomplish His will. When Christians say that God would be unjust to want bad things to be done to His children, they do not realize that God's ways are higher than our ways, and His thoughts higher than our thoughts. We do not understand the mind of God. We can not. Everything He does is what He wants to be done. We ask God to do His will in our lives, but do we really mean it? Do we realize that God will have His way whether we want Him to or not? Acknowledging His will is acknowledging that whatever He chooses to do (or allows to be done) in our life is what His will is -- or, what He wants -- It is surrendering our will..our wants, our desires..and accepting His will -- His wants, His desires. will2/wil/ noun 1.the faculty by which a person decides on and initiates action. verb 1.intend, desire, or wish (something) to happen. If someone denies that God doesn't want evil to happen, they are denying God His will, and therefore not surrendering their wills to God. From a human perspective, it may seem unjust and evil of God to want evil in this world. But He is God. His knowledge is infinite. Our knowledge is nothing in comparison. What may seem unjust to us, is just to Him. He is the epitome of justice and knowledge and power. If He didn't want something to be done..He would not allow it to done. This does not make God evil, because God is not evil. By saying that God doesn't want something to be done, we are saying that God is therefore unable -- or powerless -- to stop what is being done. He is perfectly capable of stopping the evil in this world..but that is not His will. He always does what He wants, and in the end, it is for our good and His glory. We were not created for God; God doesn't need us. We were created to glorify Him. We know in the end, God will cut all the wicked off. He may allow evil to reign on earth, but this earth is not our home. We will abide in Him, in Heaven..never even worrying about what our life on earth was like. Never questioning why God allowed it to happen the way it did. Ultimately..God is God. He can do what He pleases. We do not have to understand why..we just have yo accept His will for our lives and allow Him to be God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adara Posted August 19, 2016 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 74 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/15/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2016 Psalm 135:6 "Whatever the LORD pleases, He does, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps." Psalm 115:3 "But our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases." Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure';" Daniel 4:35 "All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, But He does according to His will in the host of heaven And among the inhabitants of earth; And no one can ward off His hand Or say to Him, 'What have You done?'" Romans 9:19-21 "You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adara Posted August 19, 2016 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 74 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/15/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2016 Isaiah 45:9-10 "Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the thing you are making say, 'He has no hands'? "Woe to him who says to a father, 'What are you begetting?' Or to a woman, 'To what are you giving birth?'" Job 9:12 "Were He to snatch away, who could restrain Him? Who could say to Him, 'What are You doing?'" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman1917 Posted August 19, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,028 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 810 Days Won: 2 Joined: 02/24/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Adara said: Isaiah 45:9-10 "Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the thing you are making say, 'He has no hands'? "Woe to him who says to a father, 'What are you begetting?' Or to a woman, 'To what are you giving birth?'" Job 9:12 "Were He to snatch away, who could restrain Him? Who could say to Him, 'What are You doing?'" You give an example of how difficult and confusing it is interpreting scripture. Scripture often says the opposite of what it previously said. The name Israel is an extremely holy name which means "one who quarrels with God ". It was very good that Moses decided he had a better idea than God, quarreled with God, and got God to repent of the "evil he planned to do unto his people ". Exodus 32:14King James BibleAnd the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. It is never good to hate God, but it can save many lives if one contends with him and disagrees with him (as did Moses ). If I get tortured and murdered today or tomorrow ( as happens to better Christians than me every day ) it was God's will. If im unintentionally headed for such a fate , and Dad who is all-knowing doesn't inform me of the danger (he was aware of long in advance,) it's cuz he wants me tortured and murdered... That is obvious to me.... But it might be a good thing that I'll be quite happy about afterward . I'm sure Jesus and the Apostles are glad they got tortured and murdered "God's will be done... Lord, if you want me to be tortured and killed, let it be done as you will in Jesus name. Not as I will but, thy will be done! Just please give me the courage and strength to die as Jesus did, forgiving, loving, and not blaspheming or being a coward. Thank you Jesus! I eagerly await your will to be done, not mine" (the reason I post some of my prayers to God publicly like that is God and the Angels see the post and know it was sincere and from the heart, and because scripture says when two or more agree on something it will be granted, so let's all agree that God will Purge me of all confusion, stubbornness, and influence of Satan that gets in the way of my obeying him (and doing his will) , and let's all agree that I will be transformed into his obedient, surrendered, docile instrument , to be used for whatever the Potter wishes, in Jesus name! Edited August 19, 2016 by spiderman1917 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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