Is the Falling Away a false teaching ?

[Salty]

1 minute ago, Revelation Man said:

And you only cite one reference. I said it can mean a leaving or departing from MANY THINGS, which would include a Religious standing, so what did your verse prove ? Nothing, and until you check out every verse where it is used or many of them, then you can not say that it was meant only for a Religious Standing Departing.

The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).

 

Man, all that hot air and for nothing!

Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2 was warning those in Christ about the coming Antichrist, to JERUSALEM, who will SIT IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, meaning a REBUILT TEMPLE in JERUSALEM for the end. That... is what he associated with the Greek word apostasia translated to a falling away.

That is almost exactly... what Antiochus Epiphanes did in 170 B.C. Jerusalem. Antiochus conqured Jerusalem and went inside the temple and sacrificed swine upon the alter, DESOLATING THE TEMPLE, and then he spread the broth around inside the temple further DESOLATING THE TEMPLE, and then he setup an idol to Zeus worship, and demanded all in the land to worship it.

The big difference between the Antichrist that is coming to also do that DESOLATION OF A REBUILT TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM will be how the Antichrist will work great signs and wonders, miracles, to deceive the world.

That is HOW the great falling away (Greek apostasia) that Paul warned of will occur. It is set for the very end of this world. This I declare for those in Christ Jesus, and not to charlatans who have no use for God's Holy Writ.

[Revelation Man]

42 minutes ago, Salty said:

Man, all that hot air and for nothing!

Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2 was warning those in Christ about the coming Antichrist, to JERUSALEM, who will SIT IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, meaning a REBUILT TEMPLE in JERUSALEM for the end. That... is what he associated with the Greek word apostasia translated to a falling away.

That is almost exactly... what Antiochus Epiphanes did in 170 B.C. Jerusalem. Antiochus conqured Jerusalem and went inside the temple and sacrificed swine upon the alter, DESOLATING THE TEMPLE, and then he spread the broth around inside the temple further DESOLATING THE TEMPLE, and then he setup an idol to Zeus worship, and demanded all in the land to worship it.

The big difference between the Antichrist that is coming to also do that DESOLATION OF A REBUILT TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM will be how the Antichrist will work great signs and wonders, miracles, to deceive the world.

That is HOW the great falling away (Greek apostasia) that Paul warned of will occur. It is set for the very end of this world. This I declare for those in Christ Jesus, and not to charlatans who have no use for God's Holy Writ.

The passage is about the Rapture (gathering together unto Christ) and how the Thessalonians were in fear that the Day of the Lord was upon them, the part about the Anti-Christ has nothing to do with what the discussion is. Paul is telling them, DON'T WORRY, about the Day of the Lord being upon you, I have already told you we will be gathered together (Raptured) unto Christ before the Anti-Christ comes to power, and sits in the Temple of God. 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Paul is telling them, DON'T WORRY, about the Day of the Lord being upon you, I have already told you we will be gathered together (Raptured) unto Christ before the Anti-Christ comes to power, and sits in the Temple of God. 

That is not logical because in the first verse Paul links it as Jesus' parousia and our gathering up.

Now you're saying, by changing the meaning of apostasy that Jesus' parousia and our gathering up, cannot happen until we are gathered up and the anti-Christ is revealed.

So we have to be gathered up before we be gathered up?  

That's what happens when YOU change word meaning.  

And by the way, if you want to change the meaning of the word, YOU have to provide the evidence it doesn't mean what everyone else says it does.

[Last Daze]

9 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

That is not logical because in the first verse Paul links it as Jesus' parousia and our gathering up.

Now you're saying, by changing the meaning of apostasy that Jesus' parousia and our gathering up, cannot happen until we are gathered up and the anti-Christ is revealed.

So we have to be gathered up before we be gathered up? 

Agreed.  I find "apostasy" being re-branded as "rapture" a bit ludicrous.  It doesn't make any sense as you've pointed out.

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Agreed.  I find "apostasy" being re-branded as "rapture" a bit ludicrous.  It doesn't make any sense as you've pointed out.

That is because you are closing your mind to the facts. As per that guy, I ignore his posts, he is a guy that is not cordial, I don't need the hassle. Christians should always treat each other with cordiality and respect. When they don't, something is off kilter.

[Last Daze]

33 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

That is because you are closing your mind to the facts. As per that guy, I ignore his posts, he is a guy that is not cordial, I don't need the hassle. Christians should always treat each other with cordiality and respect. When they don't, something is off kilter.

Maybe, maybe not.  The "facts" will be revealed soon enough.  May we all be prepared to remain faithful and persevere to the end, whenever that is.

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 11:50 PM, Revelation Man said:

I have evolved with much study on this. I used to argue to all that there had to be this great Falling Away also. All because of this one passage. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I do agree that the world gets far more evil towards the (now) end, as foretold in Romans chapter 1, and as Peter said, there will be scoffers in the last days etc. etc. But I do not think the True Church can "Fall Away", either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left behind by the Bridegroom. Anyway, here is my understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction…” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) This verse is used by many and they say it implies a "Falling Away" from the faith. But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.

Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”

The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).

This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”

They were as follows:

1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)

2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)

3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)

4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)

5. The Great Bible (1540)

6. The Beeches Bible (1576)

7. The Geneva Bible (1608)

Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500s — Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” — rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the false teachings of Catholicism.

 

One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”

And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church. I think when the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.

I do not think this has anything to do with a Falling Away. It is the Church Departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth. The King James Bible changed the known understanding that has been around for 1500 years.

The great falling away is about the increasing apostasy of the church, meaning the spreading of cults that call themselves Christian but really aren't. Like the Mormons, Roman Catholics, JWs, the charismatic prosperity cults (Joel Osteen, Benny hinn, and many others like them).

[Revelation Man]

41 minutes ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

The great falling away is about the increasing apostasy of the church, meaning the spreading of cults that call themselves Christian but really aren't. Like the Mormons, Roman Catholics, JWs, the charismatic prosperity cults (Joel Osteen, Benny hinn, and many others like them).

Which is the very reason I opened the thread. People are believing a falsehood. Then you prove , to me,  your lack of Spiritual discernment by calling brother Benny Hinn a cult leader, lol.  

[TheMatrixHasU71]

21 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Which is the very reason I opened the thread. People are believing a falsehood. Then you prove , to me,  your lack of Spiritual discernment by calling brother Benny Hinn a cult leader, lol.  

Benny Hinn is a cult leader like 90% of all other "pastors" you see on TV. He is a money grubbing liar who believes that God wants us all to be rich and healthy and all those healing crusades are nothing but fakes. these so called healings are all false, mostly plants or purely psychological. And people go away from this man spiritually destroyed not to mention bereft of their money.

 

He also believes, like these other guys do, that we are all little gods. And once went on a demonic tirade about people who are against him saying that their children will die, and how he wishes he had a holy Ghost machine gun so that he could blow their heads off.

 

This man, like Joel Osteen, Maurice Cerrullo, Billy Graham, and Creflo Dollar, and many others are blasphemers and liars who will face eternal hell if they do not repent.

 Actually do some real homework about this man and others like him before you dare say to me I have no spiritual discernment. I actually DO my homework about these people so as not to be deceived by their lies

Edited November 2, 2016 by TheMatrixHasU71

[Revelation Man]

On 11/2/2016 at 9:14 AM, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Benny Hinn is a cult leader like 90% of all other "pastors" you see on TV. He is a money grubbing liar who believes that God wants us all to be rich and healthy and all those healing crusades are nothing but fakes. these so called healings are all false, mostly plants or purely psychological. And people go away from this man spiritually destroyed not to mention bereft of their money.

 

He also believes, like these other guys do, that we are all little gods. And once went on a demonic tirade about people who are against him saying that their children will die, and how he wishes he had a holy Ghost machine gun so that he could blow their heads off.

 

This man, like Joel Osteen, Maurice Cerrullo, Billy Graham, and Creflo Dollar, and many others are blasphemers and liars who will face eternal hell if they do not repent.

 Actually do some real homework about this man and others like him before you dare say to me I have no spiritual discernment. I actually DO my homework about these people so as not to be deceived by their lies

Proves who you are to me. I love the accusers of the brothers. Your type is actually in danger of committing the unpardonable sin and you do not even realize it. When you call the works of the Holy Spirit evil you have done the same thing that JESUS told the Pharisees was the unpardonable sin.