Openly Curious Posted September 26, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted September 26, 2016 On 9/24/2016 at 4:16 PM, Yowm said: Grace and truth stand as grace and truth whether or not one accepts them or rejects them. God is even gracious on the ungodly as He sends them rain, air and other daily provisions. The Truth includes Grace and Grace includes the Truth...inseparable, yet they are distinguishable. Something such as grace and truth are distinguishable and can be detected or observed (seen) especially as being separate or different from one another. Certainly grace is found in the truth but if you do not respond to the truth in faith you will not receive the gift of grace that comes through faith. God being gracious or kind to the godly and ungodly in this world is not the same gift of grace that is given at the time of salvation as God is good to everyone but the ungodly are still unsaved and have not the gift of grace we are saved by through faith. They are separate and can be separable and very much distinguishable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted September 26, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.36 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 26, 2016 1 hour ago, Yowm said: You are admitting grace and truth came together and were subsequently rejected together. What you did was frame the situation to try to make it fit your premise. What if I reworded it thus?... "Certainly grace is found in the truth but if you do not respond to the truth in faith you will not receive by faith the gift of grace that comes through the truth." I believe both statements are close enough. In this context many ask whether it is necessary to believe that Jesus is God in order to be saved. And the answer is clear from Scripture. When Paul says "Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" (Acts 16;31), that automatically implies that Jesus is God, since Thomas proclaimed "My Lord and my GOD". So this is the truth that brings grace to the sinner. If Jesus is not God, then His finished work of redemption cannot avail. To confess with the mouth "the LORD Jesus" is to believe that He is God, and that He is both Savior and Lord. Easy Believism sees Christ only as Savior. But saving faith sees Him as both Lord and Savior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted September 26, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted September 26, 2016 I have most certainly gave truth without grace. "NO, that dress does not make you look fat, it is the extra 100 lbs of fat beneath the dress doing it" We are reminded to let our speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt. Truth without grace equals eternal separation from God in Hell. The angels who sinned were not given grace. God did not make a way for them. They are destined for the lake of fire. Truth and grace are absolutely separable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remnantrob Posted October 27, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/23/1982 Share Posted October 27, 2016 On 9/21/2016 at 9:38 PM, Ezra said: According to Scripture they are both to be found in the Lord Jesus Christ, therefore they are indeed inseparable: For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. (John 1:17). What is the significance of this for Christians today? Many are turning away from the truth and turning to fables. But when we closely examine the life of the Lord on earth, we find a perfect balance between grace (which is also Divine love) and truth. We find Christ in the Temple offering the Holy Spirit as the Water of Life to all who will receive Him. That is grace. At another time, we also find Christ in the Temple making a whip of cords and driving out the merchants and money-changers from the Temple. That is truth. We find Christ in the Temple forgiving the woman taken in adultery and telling her to go and sin no more. That is grace. At another time, we also find Christ in the Temple strongly condemning the scribes and Pharisees and pronouncing woes upon them. That is truth. Christians are not generally being taught that God maintains all of His attributes in a perfect balance, and Christ is God. There are those who talk about His sovereignty when they should be talking about His grace. There are those who talk about His love when they should be talking about His truth. Therefore it is up to every Christian to carefully study the Scriptures and see for themselves how God keeps His perfect grace and His perfect truth in balance. That is why when Paul speaks about “all Scripture”, he says that not only is it given for doctrine, but also for reproof and correction (2 Timothy 3:16,17). Today we are seeing a tremendous departure from God’s truth and a turning to humanistic ideas and false teachings. This began about 200 years ago, but since we are approaching the appearance of the Antichrist, we can expect more and more of this while the Gospel is watered down and the Bible is attacked. I believe they are. I think of the story of the woman caught in adultery. The Pharisees wanted to trap Jesus by making him impart one or the other. If he only gave grace to the woman and forgave her on the spot then they would have said he despised the law of Moses. If he was only a proponent for truth and declared that she should die, he would be accused to the Romans as one who was taking authority from them to declare a death penalty. It's funny because we have the same problem in the church today. One side says the grace, the grace the grace and shoot down the law of the God and the other side says the truth, the truth, the truth and shoot down the grace of God. The two combined are necessary for us today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcbsr Posted January 3, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 415 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 606 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 353 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 3, 2017 The contrast with the Law of Moses spoken of in John 1:17 I think has to do with the Law being kind of misleading as an alleged source of justification. Jesus enlightened us to the fact that the law doesn't justify but reveal one's need for grace which is found in the gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonsister Posted January 3, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 647 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 283 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 3, 2017 I believe the grace of God and truth are inseparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted January 5, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.36 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 On 1/3/2017 at 9:37 PM, Yowm said: Take the White Throne Judgment for example. Well even there, there is grace in that (1) there are degrees of punishment in Hell and (2) the universe is set free from the pollution and destruction of sin and evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Von Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1,265 Topics Per Day: 0.45 Content Count: 2,637 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 760 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/04/1972 Share Posted January 25, 2017 On 1/3/2017 at 0:25 PM, soonsister said: I believe the grace of God and truth are inseparable. Dear brothers and sisters, Grace and mercy and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. I believe, beloved ones, that, first of all, we must seek to understand what the true meaning of grace and truth is. For this, two tools can be used: the dictionary and the biblical key. In this we can, when analyzing verse by verse where each one of these words appears, to see the real meaning of them. May Jesus always cheer us up so that we can go deep in search of the truth without ever fading (Proverbs 2.3-5; 3.13-15; 23:23). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 208 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted January 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Leonardo Von said: Dear brothers and sisters, Grace and mercy and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. I believe, beloved ones, that, first of all, we must seek to understand what the true meaning of grace and truth is. For this, two tools can be used: the dictionary and the biblical key. In this we can, when analyzing verse by verse where each one of these words appears, to see the real meaning of them. May Jesus always cheer us up so that we can go deep in search of the truth without ever fading (Proverbs 2.3-5; 3.13-15; 23:23). True But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8 (New International Version) Grace God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago. Ephesians 2:8-10 (New Living Translation) And Truth Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:56 (English Standard Version) ~ The True Biblical Key I have treasured Your word in my heart so that I may not sin against You. Psalms 119:11 (Holman Christian Standard Bible) ~ Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible) Love, Your Brother Joe ~ Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160 (King James Bible) The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable. Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you. It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed. Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully. It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure. It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents. From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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