Ezra Posted October 9, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.33 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2016 5 hours ago, Pierre said: How else could God demonstrate that he judges and punishes the wicked had he first not appointed the wicked to commit their sins? This is laughable. The one who is culpable is the one who should be punished, and according to your theory it is God who becomes culpable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted October 9, 2016 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.40 Reputation: 12,324 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted October 9, 2016 22 hours ago, Pierre said: Even the outcome of the roll of a dice is determined by God, If that is true, then your post was determined by God as well. Additionally, the posts of others, would have been pre-destined by God. That would make God, the author of confusion, would it not? If that is the case, then the Bible is untrue. If the Bible is untrue, then quoting the passages you do, to make you point, means that you point is not trustworthy. If your point is not trustworthy, there is little reason to even read it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christiang Posted October 10, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 65 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 8 minutes ago, Yowm said: "But your Honor, you appointed me to break the law and now you are charging me for breaking the law?" Hence why Paul wrote this, Quote One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?" But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'" Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use? What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory-- (Romans 9:19-23 [NIV]) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted October 10, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 308 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,151 Content Per Day: 4.59 Reputation: 27,851 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2016 This is simply because God has the Fore Knowledge.....He doesn't make someone break the Law Quote Isaiah 42:9 "Behold, the former things have come to pass, Now I declare new things; Before they spring forth I proclaim them to you." Acts 3:18 "But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. John 13:11 For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, "Not all of you are clean." Luke 22:34 And He said, "I say to you, Peter, the rooster will not crow today until you have denied three times that you know Me." The choices are ours to make although God already knows them....He doers not make them for us or make us do anything we do not want to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christiang Posted October 10, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 65 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, kwikphilly said: This is simply because God has the Fore Knowledge.....He doesn't make someone break the Law The choices are ours to make although God already knows them....He doers not make them for us or make us do anything we do not want to do The potter himself makes makes the pot for common use or for special purposes, the pot doesn't just spring forth on its own and makes itself what it wants to be. Is it so difficult to come to understanding of what is clearly taught in scripture? True is this prophecy, not just for the Jews to whom even the Law and the prophets was given, but also to anyone that does not come to understanding in this matter, even though it is taught as plain as day in scripture, Quote In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.' (Matthew 13:14-15 [NIV]) Edited October 10, 2016 by Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted October 10, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 308 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,151 Content Per Day: 4.59 Reputation: 27,851 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2016 Quote On 10/8/2016 at 9:46 PM, Pierre said: Even the outcome of the roll of a dice is determined by God, If that is true, then your post was determined by God as well. Additionally, the posts of others, would have been pre-destined by God. That would make God, the author of confusion, would it not? If that is the case, then the Bible is untrue. If the Bible is untrue, then quoting the passages you do, to make you point, means that you point is not trustworthy. If your point is not trustworthy, there is little reason to even read it! Omegaman Wow,well said....................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted October 10, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.95 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2016 So, you saying that if God causes man to break a law he cannot punish the man but has to punish himself. That is a strange concept for any one. You are not attributing any guilt to man the creature but to God the Creator himself...how is that possible when God is without any guilt at all? In essence you as a parent have a child. That child commits a crime...you are the parent (creator so to speak) you then are guilty of your child's crime, not the child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christiang Posted October 10, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 65 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Yowm said: The context of Romans 9 is His preparation of nations not individual salvation or causing individuals to do evil. God caused Pharaoh to not let the Israelites go by hardening his heart. That is individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christiang Posted October 10, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 65 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 8 minutes ago, Yowm said: Long before it said 'the Lord hardened Pharoahs heart', it said this... Exodus 1:8-11 KJVS [8] Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph. [9] And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we: [10] Come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, and it come to pass, that, when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies, and fight against us, and so get them up out of the land. [11] Therefore they did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens. And they built for Pharaoh treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses. ...Indicating that Pharaoh's heart was already hard. God simply used a hard heart for His own purpose. Indeed God hardened Pharaoh's heart then to enslave the Israelites and thus fulfill what he himself intended to do, Quote Then the LORD said to him, "Know for certain that for four hundred years your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own and that they will be enslaved and mistreated there. But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions. (Genesis 15:3-4 [NIV]) And God also hardened Pharaoh's heart as to cause him to not listen to Moses and Aaron, Quote But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses. (Exodus 9:12 [NIV]) So that God may demonstrate his power and wonders against Egypt, Quote But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth. (Exodus 9:16 [NIV]) God is the one who hardens the heart, or opens understanding. Pharaoh was an example of the full control God exerts even over the hearts of man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted October 10, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 350 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 7,534 Content Per Day: 2.69 Reputation: 5,426 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2016 In my limited knowledge, I really can't wrap my brain around the infinite knowledge and wisdom God has, nothing is unknown. The Alpha and Omega, first and last. Much less explain what eternal and everlasting is. To rationalize any of this, I have to view it as God created time for us, and God lives outside of time. He is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscience, meaning God looks down and sees past, present and the future all at the same time. He knows the beginning from the end, and the end from the beginning. We have free will to accept or reject the free gift of Salvation the Lord Jesus provided us on the cross at Calvary. From before the beginning the Lord knew who His chosen would be. That's my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts