Why people argue agaisnt healing today

[Jaydog1976]

5 minutes ago, full goespel said:

And what does james say shhhsh.

Full can you tell me what James says? You mention something about it yet you have no scripture reference(s) to give me to look up. Not sure what the "shhhsh " was for but I will overlook it.

5 minutes ago, full goespel said:

 

So you want to show me up for lack of knowledge call me into the soapbox any time. Then you will be able to expose me as a fake. Any time thanks.

I am not trying to show you up full I have no desire to do that. What I do desire is that you support show us the scriptures that you use to support your belief system. You never do even in the live chat you never did. 

5 minutes ago, full goespel said:

So by grace you have been saved healed deliverd and set free ecompased. Yes thats all involved in the word saved. Look it up.

So what you are doing here full is that you are adding to Ephesians 2:8-9. You put healed in there not God. So I would suggest that you look it up and read the verse as written and not throw your word into the verse to make it fit your definition of salvation.

[OneLight]

Since you have many threads started about healing, I can only link to my other answers, not knowing if you will take the time to answer, so here is one I posted in your "God is so good" thread.

Have you ever heard of Joni and Friends?

 

[Ezra]

9 hours ago, full goespel said:

Its in there to show all that Gods will is for all to be healed. Its not another means.

There's a big difference between the gift of healing and the prayer for healing.  What is done by the elders or not is another issue.

[full goespel]

1 minute ago, Ezra said:

There's a big difference between the gift of healing and the prayer for healing.  What is done by the elders or not is another issue.

Which is?

[B3L13v3R]

Hi FullGospel. Hey, have you ever had a chance to view the movie or read the book "Joni?" It is the same woman Onelight was referring to.
Joni at 16 was a young Christian woman that had been involved in a diving accident which left her as a quadriplegic.

Although she did desire bodily healing from God, she was not healed by our Lord after going to a Kathryn Kuhlman crusade, and as a result for a season she was greatly depressed. (Note: This "faith healer" Kathryn Kuhlman died after she had open heart surgery in Oklahoma in 1976.)
Upon later trusting God, and accepting her condition, the Lord went on to use her greatly. Joni became an author, advocate for those disabled, and an artist.

As a young boy, I still recall my grandmother getting Christmas cards done by Joni that were painted with brushes held in her mouth, and they were very well done!
I would think that they also held some small part in pointing me to the Lord some years later.

To be clear, I do believe in bodily healing from our Lord as He desires. Kwikphilly is an example of that here at the boards.

The prayers Ezra mentioned for those in the Body of Christ from James are great examples of how we should pray.

I also know God can and does use doctors with the common graces man has learned in understanding how the wonderfully the  body works that the Lord has created.
The body is truly amazing! Mine has been creating a billion white blood cells every day that have been fighting off the Rhino virus (common cold) for a few weeks now!

In my early walk in Christ, I ran into some bad teachers, that made it known to me that I was not "healed or blessed" because: "I did not have enough faith," I did not give enough money," I had secret sin in my life," and on and on with their twisted teachings.

None of this was true in my case, I had faith in God, gave, and had no "secret sin" in my life that I had not repented of.

Although perhaps these things in of themselves "could be" the case of some.
-If we do not have enough faith we can ask the Lord: 1John 5:14  And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
-If one is truly being stingy, Look to the Lord as where to give, not only money, but time, talent, food, clothing, etc. And make sure God is glorified in our giving.
-Secret "sin" that no one but God knows about? Repent. Ask Him for strength and grow in understanding of His Word as we apply it to our lives so that we do not sin against Him. Psalms 119:11  Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary
Repent
RE'PENT, a. [L. repo, to creep.] Creeping; as a repent root.

REPENT', v.i. [L. re and paeniteo, from paena, pain. Gr. See Paint.]
1. To feel pain, sorrow or regret for something done or spoken; as, to repent that we have lost much time in idleness or sensual pleasure; to repent that we have injured or wounded the feelings of a friend. A person repents only of what he himself has done or said.
2. To express sorrow for something past.
Enobarbus did before thy face repent.
3. To change the mind in consequence of the inconvenience or injury done by past conduct.
Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return. Exo 13.
4. Applied to the Supreme Being, to change the course of providential dealings. Gen 6. Psa 106.

5. In theology, to sorrow or be pained for sin, as a violation of God's holy law, a dishonor to his character and government, and the foulest ingratitude to a Being of infinite benevolence.

Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Luke 13. Acts 3.

REPENT', v.t
1. To remember with sorrow; as, to repent rash words; to repent an injury done to a neighbor; to repent follies and vices. [See Repentance.]
2. With the reciprocal pronoun.
No man repented him of his wickedness. Jer 8.

[full goespel]

This was mentioned already about Joni. So how does our experiances change Gods word? It dosent.

To be clear, I do believe in bodily healing from our Lord as He desires. You dont have a scripture to back this thought up. Its always God will to heal all. Just like Jesus did whist he was here on earth.

1 hour ago, B3L13v3R said:

I also know God can and does use doctors with the common graces man has learned in understanding how the wonderfully the  body works that the Lord has created.

No God never used dictors we do. Its not Gods way. Luke was a doctor. Does it say he took his bag NO. Did it sat he ever went back to useing his bag no never.

Fine we are blessed men studied the body ok. Thats not Gods way that mans way. Its not in the bible.

There are many bad teachers users and abusers who made money from gealing lies.  So healing has a bad rep even though it comes from God.

You never said in your case if you got healed or not?

Thanks for your post. Not sure what all the repent part was about or who it is for?

[kwikphilly]

This is the entire problem with what you are trying to propagate,just like  Word Faith healers doctrine

Quote

Its always God will to heal all. Just like Jesus did whist he was here on earth.                                  fullgoespel

What you think being HEALED means may not be what God is saying for some,like Joni...she is indeed HEALED to perfection only not from your perception!!!Jesus must have passed by the lame man on His way to the Temple through the gates "Beautiful" at least once a week & yet He didn't heal him,did HE? No,it was through Peter & John that the man was eventually made to walk by the Healing Power & Grace of God........so you say it is Gods Will to Heal ALL,what about Nick with no limbs,Nick is wealthy,He goes on to encourage so so many & in his weakness He was made STRONG...Strong to go on that through Him many many many people have come to Jesus!    It is you my friend that do not have Gods Word to support your beliefs     

  Healing does not have a bad rep,it is bad teachers who condemn through their own words & mis-interpretations to  those that have greater works for Gods Purpose & probably would never have been able top learn,grow & trust God if it were not for their conditions ,circumstanes & situations    God is not ONE to condemn & lay guilt on people,people are...people who are themselves deceived

[B3L13v3R]

Full goespel, I missed any reply you may have stated in other places on the forum about Joni. So I would like to know from you.
1. So, FG, is Joni in the middle of God's will or no in her current condition?
2. Have the few thousand hours of the teachings of men (that I've seen you mention) led you to believe she is not?
3. I previously asked, have you ever seen or read her testimony?

The Word does clearly say Luke was a physician/doctor. I'm glad you have seen that:
 Colossians 4:14 Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you.

The Bible also does not "discount" Luke's abilities in any way as a doctor.
As far as a doctors medical bag he ever carried, who knows? The Bible does not say either way.
I'd be glad to lend anyone like him any of the items in my medicine cabinet if a doc should show up without a bag.
A little wine is mentioned in the Word for medicinal purposes for stomach's sake and infirmities:
1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Granted, the majority who claim they are "healers" today on television and such are nothing more than charlatans and mockers.
The lust for money, lust of the eyes and lust of the flesh are what drives them.

 Jude 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

Benny Hinn just came to mind. A few years ago, a local farmer and his wife gave thousands of dollars to this false profit's "ministry."
Along the way the farmers wife got cancer. They had great faith in god using this healer, and went to a healing crusade of Benny's.
Upon arrival, she was quickly escorted in her wheel chair with 40 or so other wheel chairs to the very back row, well out of the view of the cameras.
None of the 40 were ever called upon to be healed by the infamous "Simon the sorcerer type" Benny Hinn.
Upon their returning home, two weeks later, she died of cancer...

As far as God using miraculous healing in my life? Yes on occasion.
On the "bad rap" the gifts of the Spirit that include healing are clearly outlined in the Bible, and in context of how they are applied.
In those times when I have prayed and not been miraculously and instantly healed (which is the majority of the time) my trust in God remains the same.

4. FG, Does trust in God remains the same when your not "instantly" healed?

5. FG, So, you never acknowledged the billion white blood cells made daily by our body. Do you not find that a miracle?

I surely do! Getting better today from the common cold, not yet instantaneously "healed." But I have faith in God who created those 1 billion white blood cells fighting that off.
What a miraculous healing the body is doing in combating that virus!

Quote FG: "Not sure what all the repent part was about or who it is for?"

You perhaps missed my preceding portion above with the word "repent" copied below and bolded this time, that I had with it's definition following:

Quote B3L13v3R"-Secret "sin" that no one but God knows about? Repent. Ask Him for strength and grow in understanding of His Word as we apply it to our lives so that we do not sin against Him. Psalms 119:11  Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee."
Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary
Repent..."

The "repent" would certainly apply towards any and all including those in "secret sin."
These two "false" Hell bound false healers I've mentioned, and many like them, still have a chance to repent while their breathing. Thank God for His mercy!

Many of the same feel they are doing God's bidding, when they are not. What an awful day of judgment awaits them!
They were doing all of these works, and yet did not know the Savior Jesus Christ! After the Lord listens to the list of the things they have done, He has them depart from His eternal presence forever!
Mat 7:22-23
(22)  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23)  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

All Christians need to build upon the Rock, Jesus Christ. How is our current building coming along?:
Mat 7:24-25
(24)  Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock.
(25)  And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

If one builds upon the sand of mans religious doctrines and ways, only trouble can be expected:
Mat 7:26-27
(26)  And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
(27)  And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

[full goespel]

I will start with this. Your telling me I have no scriptures and you dont have a single one in your post and think that justifys what you dont believe about scripture.

Thats quite funny.

5 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

What you think being HEALED means may not be what God is saying for some,

So you want scriptures because YOU dont believe its Gods will to heal all today and forever. I have many many scriptures. HOW many do you have that says its not Gods will ?

So I am going to argue for God being great and your going to say not so great. I just want you to realise this is that you and many many other Christians do.

1. Matt 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Keep in mind it says all Galilee and healed them all. sounds consistant to me.

2, Luke 6:19 And the whole multitude sought to touch him: for there went virtue out of him, and healed them all.

All again.

3. Matt 12:15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;

starting to paint a picture here for me any ways.

If you need more just ask.

Lords prayer. They kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Are there any limbless in heaven? No any sick? Nope.

And dead? nope. Any thing wrong in heaven Nope. So it seems heaven is the way God wants it? I say yes what do you say?

Mind this is Jesus tellling them how to pray. So were being told by Jesus (love you man. Sorry it just comes out woohoo.) To pray for Gods will to be done on earth. Isnt that right . Jesus said it not me.

6 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

like Joni...she is indeed HEALED to perfection only not from your perception!!!J

You really think God call her condiction a life robbed of heath perfection. What a twisted way of thinking of God. God does not need her to be like that for His glory thats a lie from hell. You dont not have a scripture to back that up. You think God is paraplygic. We are created in His image. This is a total dishonour to Gods Glory. There is No glory for God in sickness. satan came to steal kill and destroy. Jesus came to bring life life more abundant. You know this is scripture dont ya? God brings life and satan brings death. What part of life is a paraplygic? Thats satan. Now dont run off thinking God can use any one in any condiction if the heart is open. Joni has done fantastic and brought Glory to God. What do you think She could have done if she was in a whole body. You think she would have failed? I dont. Sickness is from satan. God is life. THats also bible.

6 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

!Jesus must have passed by the lame man on His way to the Temple through the gates "Beautiful" at least once a week & yet He didn't heal him,did HE?

Did  He? I never read that. Tell you what since you know what He done. Can you please fill in for us all the other things that He done that the books of the world could not contain them. What was He doing then and where was He doing it? Maybe He ws not there veery week. But once again you are saying something with no scripture, Thats strange coming from someone who wants scripture.

6 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

No,it was through Peter & John that the man was eventually made to walk by the Healing Power & Grace of God........so you say it is Gods Will to Heal ALL

Bless God the man Got healed and guess who healed him God. wonder if it was Gods will to heal the man. Wonder if your looking for excuses to tie in with your experiences.

Yes its gods will to heal all. It becomes hard for God with so many not believeing its Gods will. Who will go. Obviously not you and the very majority in here and in most churches and were wondering why we dont see healing?

6 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

what about Nick with no limbs,Nick is wealthy,He goes on to encourage so so many & in his weakness He was made STRONG...Strong to go on that through Him many many many people have come to Jesus!

Bless Nick amazing man of God. Did you lay hands on him. Did anyone lay hands on him. Did he call the elders are there any elders who actully believe in the prayer of faith. I asked this already and the woman said I wont tell the sucsees rate of my elders . Yes cause they dont have a single healing to there name. The bible says IF you are sick call the elders and they will pray the prayer of faith. Why is it IF? Because you are NOT ment to be sick if you are living in faith. Its a lifestyle not a wishing well.

 

6 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

It is you my friend that do not have Gods Word to support your beliefs  

Well lets see what you have to back up what you dont believe with scripture. Thats gonna be difficult. I seen this way to many times. Just step back look at what I say. Dont look at life experiances. look at God. Is He really for you. Does hHe really have no favourets like He says, bible. I will do for one what I do for another. I will make the sun to shine on the wicked and the good. Rain to yada yada. I have naby nore scriptures if you need them.

6 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Healing does not have a bad rep,it is bad teachers who condemn through their own words & mis-interpretations to  those that have greater works for Gods Purpose & probably would never have been able top learn,grow & trust God if it were not for their conditions ,circumstanes & situations    God is not ONE to condemn & lay guilt on people,people are...people who are themselves deceived

You are assuming the role of teacher here ok. So are you ready to stand before God and tell him that you taught with the full knowledge of the subject of healing like you are doing here. You know You will have to do that one day dont you? So what ever they do is nothing to do with you other than to stand on there shoulders and continue in the vain they set. are you doing that? Your holding them up as examples . So what are you doing with four limbs. No one said Gid is one to condem and lay guilt. I already said that. There is no condemanation in Christ none. SO lets see if you think I am still decived. Maybe you can tell me how Gods picks who gets healed and who deos not. and with scripture please. Twell me about this God who says yes to some and no to others. You said you believe in Healing and laying on of hands. You will not lay hands on unless God calls you to. Where is the scripture for that. And the other things you claim are Gods will. and the way He does things.

[full goespel]

48 minutes ago, B3L13v3R said:

Full goespel, I missed any reply you may have stated in other places on the forum about Joni. So I would like to know from you.
1. So, FG, is Joni in the middle of God's will or no in her current condition?
2. Have the few thousand hours of the teachings of men (that I've seen you mention) led you to believe she is not?
3. I previously asked, have you ever seen or read her testimony?

The Word does clearly say Luke was a physician/doctor. I'm glad you have seen that:
 Colossians 4:14 Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you.

The Bible also does not "discount" Luke's abilities in any way as a doctor.
As far as a doctors medical bag he ever carried, who knows? The Bible does not say either way.
I'd be glad to lend anyone like him any of the items in my medicine cabinet if a doc should show up without a bag.
A little wine is mentioned in the Word for medicinal purposes for stomach's sake and infirmities:
1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Granted, the majority who claim they are "healers" today on television and such are nothing more than charlatans and mockers.
The lust for money, lust of the eyes and lust of the flesh are what drives them.

 Jude 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

Benny Hinn just came to mind. A few years ago, a local farmer and his wife gave thousands of dollars to this false profit's "ministry."
Along the way the farmers wife got cancer. They had great faith in god using this healer, and went to a healing crusade of Benny's.
Upon arrival, she was quickly escorted in her wheel chair with 40 or so other wheel chairs to the very back row, well out of the view of the cameras.
None of the 40 were ever called upon to be healed by the infamous "Simon the sorcerer type" Benny Hinn.
Upon their returning home, two weeks later, she died of cancer...

As far as God using miraculous healing in my life? Yes on occasion.
On the "bad rap" the gifts of the Spirit that include healing are clearly outlined in the Bible, and in context of how they are applied.
In those times when I have prayed and not been miraculously and instantly healed (which is the majority of the time) my trust in God remains the same.

4. FG, Does trust in God remains the same when your not "instantly" healed?

5. FG, So, you never acknowledged the billion white blood cells made daily by our body. Do you not find that a miracle?

I surely do! Getting better today from the common cold, not yet instantaneously "healed." But I have faith in God who created those 1 billion white blood cells fighting that off.
What a miraculous healing the body is doing in combating that virus!

Quote FG: "Not sure what all the repent part was about or who it is for?"

You perhaps missed my preceding portion above with the word "repent" copied below and bolded this time, that I had with it's definition following:

Quote B3L13v3R"-Secret "sin" that no one but God knows about? Repent. Ask Him for strength and grow in understanding of His Word as we apply it to our lives so that we do not sin against Him. Psalms 119:11  Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee."
Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary
Repent..."

The "repent" would certainly apply towards any and all including those in "secret sin."
These two "false" Hell bound false healers I've mentioned, and many like them, still have a chance to repent while their breathing. Thank God for His mercy!

Many of the same feel they are doing God's bidding, when they are not. What an awful day of judgment awaits them!
They were doing all of these works, and yet did not know the Savior Jesus Christ! After the Lord listens to the list of the things they have done, He has them depart from His eternal presence forever!
Mat 7:22-23
(22)  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23)  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

All Christians need to build upon the Rock, Jesus Christ. How is our current building coming along?:
Mat 7:24-25
(24)  Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock.
(25)  And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

If one builds upon the sand of mans religious doctrines and ways, only trouble can be expected:
Mat 7:26-27
(26)  And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
(27)  And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

What is your point? Try and keep it short. Looks like your against what I am saying if it is show me scripture and just get to it. If your genuinly interested. Go listen to Dan Mohler Todd White. Curry Blake. John G lake. David Hogan.