The Truth About the Christian Canon

[SavedOnebyGrace]

The Apocrypha and Pseudo Apocrypha from a Jewish perspective is available at the below hyperlinked website. 

Source: Apocrypha and Pseudo Apocrypha

The website itself appears to be a great website for someone learning about Jewish history and the Holocaust.  For example, I didn't know that the Japanese and Italians refused to take part in Hitler's final solution (to wipe out all Jews). 

Related to this subject, Alfred Hitchcock's Documentary on the Holocaust is a must see.  "The British Army Film Unit cameramen who shot the liberation of Bergen-Belsen concentration camp in 1945 used to joke about the reaction of Alfred Hitchcock to the horrific footage they filmed.  When Hitchcock first saw the footage, the legendary British director was reportedly so traumatised that he stayed away from Pinewood Studios for a week.  Hitchcock may have been the king of horror movies but he was utterly appalled by "the real thing"."

 

[SavedOnebyGrace]

The Book of Jasher as mentioned in the KJV of the Bible, but somehow it's not included in the Bible.

Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.  [KJV]
2 Samuel 1:18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)   [KJV]
 

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, other one said:

I find the Septuagint interesting for just about everything I read says that is what was in use during Jesus's stay here by most people.  It's my understanding that when Jesus quoted the Old Testament he quoted the Septuagint 90% of the time.

Actually the Septuagint was for Hellenistic (Greek-speaking) Jews, not for those in Palestine. And The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah indicates that it was regarded as a corruption by those who had the Hebrew Tanakh.  

While there is some correspondence between the Greek quotations in the NT and the Septuagint, it cannot be regarded as the Scriptures used by the Lord and His apostles. There are just too many corruptions.  For example, they deliberately lengthened the ages of the patriarchs in order to show the pagans that their antiquity was equal to that of the pagans.

[other one]

Just now, Ezra said:

Actually the Septuagint was for Hellenistic (Greek-speaking) Jews, not for those in Palestine. And The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah indicates that it was regarded as a corruption by those who had the Hebrew Tanakh.  

While there is some correspondence between the Greek quotations in the NT and the Septuagint, it cannot be regarded as the Scriptures used by the Lord and His apostles. There are just too many corruptions.  For example, they deliberately lengthened the ages of the patriarchs in order to show the pagans that their antiquity was equal to that of the pagans.

then why are most of his quotes using the Septuagint?

[Ezra]

47 minutes ago, other one said:

then why are most of his quotes using the Septuagint?

That is the common assumption. However, translating from Hebrew to Greek (without any agenda) would generally produce the same results.  So the quotations in the NT from the OT resemble the Septuagint.  That does not mean that their origin is the Septuagint, since that was corrupted. As noted in The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah (Edersheim):

From this it would, of course, follow that the Canon of the Old Testament was then practically fixed in Palestine. That Canon was accepted by the Alexandrian translators, although the more loose views of the Hellenists on ‘inspiration,’ and the absence of that close watchfulness exercised over the text in Palestine, led to additions and alterations, and ultimately even to the admission of the Apocrypha into the Greek Bible... Putting aside clerical mistakes and misreadings, and making allowance for errors of translation, ignorance, and haste, we note certain outstanding facts as characteristic of the Greek version. It bears evident marks of its origin in Egypt in its use of Egyptian words and references, and equally evident traces of its Jewish composition. By the side of slavish and false literalism there is great liberty, if not licence, in handling the original; gross mistakes occur along with happy renderings of very difficult passages, suggesting the aid of some able scholars...

The distinctively Grecian elements, however, are at present of chief interest to us. They consist of allusions to Greek mythological terms, and adaptations of Greek philosophical ideas. However few, even one well-authenticated instance would lead us to suspect others, and in general give to the version the character of Jewish Hellenising. In the same class we reckon what constitutes the prominent characteristic of the LXX. version, which, for want of better terms, we would designate as rationalistic and apologetic. Difficulties - or what seemed such - are removed by the most bold methods, and by free handling of the text; it need scarcely be said, often very unsatisfactorily. More especially a strenuous effort is made to banish all anthropomorphisms, as inconsistent with their ideas of the Deity.

[other one]

Not what I see in many places

[SavedOnebyGrace]

9 minutes ago, Ezra said:

That is the common assumption. However, translating from Hebrew to Greek (without any agenda) would generally produce the same results.  So the quotations in the NT from the OT resemble the Septuagint.  That does not mean that their origin is the Septuagint, since that was corrupted. As noted in The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah (Edersheim):

From this it would, of course, follow that the Canon of the Old Testament was then practically fixed in Palestine. That Canon was accepted by the Alexandrian translators, although the more loose views of the Hellenists on ‘inspiration,’ and the absence of that close watchfulness exercised over the text in Palestine, led to additions and alterations, and ultimately even to the admission of the Apocrypha into the Greek Bible... Putting aside clerical mistakes and misreadings, and making allowance for errors of translation, ignorance, and haste, we note certain outstanding facts as characteristic of the Greek version. It bears evident marks of its origin in Egypt in its use of Egyptian words and references, and equally evident traces of its Jewish composition. By the side of slavish and false literalism there is great liberty, if not licence, in handling the original; gross mistakes occur along with happy renderings of very difficult passages, suggesting the aid of some able scholars...

The distinctively Grecian elements, however, are at present of chief interest to us. They consist of allusions to Greek mythological terms, and adaptations of Greek philosophical ideas. However few, even one well-authenticated instance would lead us to suspect others, and in general give to the version the character of Jewish Hellenising. In the same class we reckon what constitutes the prominent characteristic of the LXX. version, which, for want of better terms, we would designate as rationalistic and apologetic. Difficulties - or what seemed such - are removed by the most bold methods, and by free handling of the text; it need scarcely be said, often very unsatisfactorily. More especially a strenuous effort is made to banish all anthropomorphisms, as inconsistent with their ideas of the Deity.

As for the New Testament, what texts are more consistent with OT as fixed in Palestine?

[HAZARD]

3 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Since most of us are Christians here, I'm sure we'll have pieces everywhere, er, I mean peace.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Ezra....

     What a wonderful reference to better understand Jesus' life .The Life & Times of Jesus the Messiah is a fantastic commentary on the Gospels(by Edershein) explaining the intellectual and religious perspectives of the people who lived in Jesus lifetime here on earth ,Geography,politics, Rabbinic Law and Talmud writings are referred to for clarification & perspective,a must read!!!!I'm so glad you mentioned this book......& what was the other one> Jewish Social Life-the Ministry and Service of the Temple?   I believe that's it....I think I will read that one again!                    With love-in Christ,Kwik

[Ezra]

On 12/7/2016 at 0:26 PM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

As for the New Testament, what texts are more consistent with OT as fixed in Palestine?

Well since the Lord Jesus Christ is the final authority in all matters, He is also the one who gave His stamp of approval to the OT canon as fixed in Palestine.  Here is what He said:

Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, [the Tanakh] he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself... And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written [1] in the law of Moses, and [2] in the prophets, and [3] in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24:25-27; 44-47).

Christ alluded to the OT (the Tanakh) as (a) "Moses and all the prophets" and (b) the law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms.  Those three divisions are found in the Hebrew Bible, which consists of 24 books (divided up in our OT into 39 books) as follows:

TORAH = The Law of Moses = 5 books

NEBIIM (NEVIM) = The Prophets = 8 books

KETHUBIIM (KETUVIM) = The Psalms = 11 books (with the Psalms as the first book in this division.

We could go into greater details as to which books belong where (since they are not in the same order as our OT) but the point is that Christ Himself limited the Palestinian canon to our OT, and excluded the Apocrypha.  All OT allusions in the NT are from the Tanakh.