When Christians Love Theology More Than People

[Guest shiloh357]

12 minutes ago, Davida said:

I hear ya, but I have a slightly different take on just the general complaint against churches for not being loving or meaningfully friendly enough type situation. I wonder if many don't attend a Church in the beginning for the right reasons? They want needs fulfilled that really can't be by the Church? 

That is an excellent insight.   Too often people expect other Christians to be "Jesus" in their lives and when we can't measure up, they get offended and feel like the church let them down.

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Unfortunately from my observations there are emotionally dysfunctional and wounded or even to the extreme spectrum -emotionally disturbed people EVERY where, including at Lowes and in churches , lol.  So  for me , it is a case of the blind leading the blind partly.   People can't  expect a Church to heal their prior emotional wounds & fulfill all their emotional needs, or to know  & heal their emotional baggage,  imo - If we have too great an expectation these people  will always feel  slighted, neglected, let down or bitter if they do. Some people who come to Churches seem to need a counsellor first or referral to a Social Worker or some support group for their emotional issues & separately they could  speak directly to a Pastor  and discuss their spiritual needs with him to get direction to link  or referral to perhaps the Woman's Bible Study group, or Woman's Prayer Chain or if they are a man to one of the men's similar groups. Then attend the Church also in the congregation they might feel more a part of it.   

Spot on.  I think it is important to realize that when we go to church, the people we meet in church are often just as broken as we are.  Christians are flawed people and too often people come to a church expecting more than they should.    And I totally agree with the counseling issue.  Sometimes people have problems that the pastor is simply not equipped to deal with.   A pastor is not tasked by God to fix everyone's problems.  His job, biblically is to equip the saints for the work of the ministry.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, existential mabel said:

yes exactly my point which is why i left as my emotional needs are like an insurance claim written off. ok so next the spiritual thing it got so into the ought to do this ought to do that. for me even the shallow stuff didnt function lol as they just quoted script and God will heal you cough sneeze well must be summat wrong with me then as i have all the same probs o dear its a black dog of the night.

so yeah peeps cant help really but God, well he aint coming through and now the remnant of the church that i do get to is literally dying off. so where is God i wonder? hey i reckon God invented CTV cameras he looks but he doesnt do anything except watch. and then i listen to or used to listen to long sermons and thought well i am (cant use that particular word so i am struggling ....) ok you fill the blancs ------

i did try several house groups and they were just not right. so i go it alone and Gods probably got the CTV camera but is on a coffee break right now.

i think maybe i need a sabbatical from God. ..

God is working all things together for your good.  We all face seasons of trouble and trials, but that is where your testimony is built.   The problem is that God doesn't promise to fix all of our problems.   Rather he uses our problems and hardships as a means of strengthening, sharpening, and teaching us.   Suffering and hardship need to be seen in the light of the Gospel.

What would have happened if Paul decided in prison that he needed a sabbatical from God?   Paul viewed his suffering in the light of the Gospel and not in the light of the situation he was in.    When Paul went to prison, he wrote epistles and preached to the Praetorian guard that was tasked with guarding him in prison.   When Paul faced hardship, he started a prison ministry.  He didn't just pick up his toys and go home.

Suffering is part of our relationship with God and he promises to walk with us through hardship.  He is not taking a sabbatical from you.

[SimonB]

On the subject of the OP it raises also the question, just what is Theology?

I cant help but feel that some differences of opinion aren't that but are differences of syntax leading to a misunderstanding.

Recent posts have gone off topic but do raise a very interesting and important subject about churches etc.

Probably deserves its own thread.

I can see a few different aspects of this issue but I'll think about it some more before replying on that one.

[existential mabel]

10 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

God is working all things together for your good.  We all face seasons of trouble and trials, but that is where your testimony is built.   The problem is that God doesn't promise to fix all of our problems.   Rather he uses our problems and hardships as a means of strengthening, sharpening, and teaching us.   Suffering and hardship need to be seen in the light of the Gospel.

What would have happened if Paul decided in prison that he needed a sabbatical from God?   Paul viewed his suffering in the light of the Gospel and not in the light of the situation he was in.    When Paul went to prison, he wrote epistles and preached to the Praetorian guard that was tasked with guarding him in prison.   When Paul faced hardship, he started a prison ministry.  He didn't just pick up his toys and go home.

Suffering is part of our relationship with God and he promises to walk with us through hardship.  He is not taking a sabbatical from you.

yeah maybe in a few weeks ...gee yeah that was why ...its funny in a Vincent Price  kind of laugh. i just need to have a functioning life and this year pretty much from early on in i have had to step away from many things and its just not letting up.

guess God will have to go it alone for a wee while as i need a break as it aint good for my mh (mental health for those who are fortunate not to suffer with it) and lord knows i have tried not to get to the bottom of a barrel but hey i have arrived and the only way is  ...

 

 

[existential mabel]

5 minutes ago, Davida said:

It is not true - GOD does not just watch. If you feel God is not "coming through" then get right with God.  It is from our end that causes the obstacle not from GOD.  God will  & does actively respond to our prayers, but we need to ask and make things right with GOD if we experience a silence or feel a disconnection it is from our end not HIS. When things are bad that is exactly when we need to seek him with all urgency and that means being able to humble ourselves and ask God if there is anything we need to repent of that is causing us to feel a distance from Him.

i have tried to get right with GOd for the longest time. i have felt that he doesnt take my quest to find him seriously. that i am a light weight and that is after reading the bible gosh i have lost count, seriously i have read it so many times and yet i cant spew out long posts of theology, cos my brain dont work like that.

so its all quite crazy really i read the bible but i still feel at a loss. its not like i am not making the effort but hey maybe not the right kind of effort and hey maybe i am trying to do it in my own strength saints preserve me. sorry but i have the big black dog tonight. this is the real me. how can God get through to me i mean arent i commiting a sin just by being woefully unhappy

[OneLight]

7 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Theology is objective, emotions are subjective and thus change with whatever situation we are in.   Theology isn't emotionally based.  It is fact/truth based.

That is not how our theology is formed.   You are speaking to how it is applied, which is a different issue. 
 

They play a part in how we live out theology, but not in how we arrive at theological conclusions.

Unless we can accept that emotions do play a part in forming our theology, then our theology will never function properly in real life.  What you are implying is scholastic reasoning for proper theology ... I am speaking of reality based theology and how it is formed.  We cannot just turn off emotions, no matter what the books tell us.  Emotions play a part of every aspect of our lives, including forming our personal theology.

[nebula]

I don't see the author as being against sound theology or anything like that. Why do people always seem to take it that way?

I see in the message a reflection of 1 Cor. 13.

As he wrote:

When I'm sick, and you bring me a meal, I don't care whether you're a Calvinist or Arminian.

When I'm poor, and you give me some food and money, I don't care if you're pre-millennial or post-millennial.

When I'm in the hospital, and you send me a get-well basket, I don't care what your church denomination is.

When you visit my grandparents in the nursing home, I don't care what style of worship music you listen to.

When you're kind enough to shovel my parent's driveway, I don't care what translation of the Bible you read.

When you give my friend a lift when their car breaks down, I don't care if you’re Baptist or Catholic.

When you help my grandmother carry a heavy load of groceries, I don't care what you believe about evolution.

When you protect my kids from getting hit by a car when they're running across the street, I don't care who your favorite theologian is.

When you’re celebrating my birthday with me, I don’t care about your views related to baptism.

When you grieve alongside me during the death of a family member, I don’t care if you tithe or not.

When you love me in deep and meaningful and authentic ways — nothing else really matters.

Or as James wrote, pure religion is - what? Pure theology? Or taking care of the orphan and the widow?

Have we forgotten the two greatest commandments? LOVE

[shel]

28 minutes ago, nebula said:

I don't see the author as being against sound theology or anything like that. Why do people always seem to take it that way?

I see in the message a reflection of 1 Cor. 13.

As he wrote:

When I'm sick, and you bring me a meal, I don't care whether you're a Calvinist or Arminian.

When I'm poor, and you give me some food and money, I don't care if you're pre-millennial or post-millennial.

When I'm in the hospital, and you send me a get-well basket, I don't care what your church denomination is.

When you visit my grandparents in the nursing home, I don't care what style of worship music you listen to.

When you're kind enough to shovel my parent's driveway, I don't care what translation of the Bible you read.

When you give my friend a lift when their car breaks down, I don't care if you’re Baptist or Catholic.

When you help my grandmother carry a heavy load of groceries, I don't care what you believe about evolution.

When you protect my kids from getting hit by a car when they're running across the street, I don't care who your favorite theologian is.

When you’re celebrating my birthday with me, I don’t care about your views related to baptism.

When you grieve alongside me during the death of a family member, I don’t care if you tithe or not.

When you love me in deep and meaningful and authentic ways — nothing else really matters.

Or as James wrote, pure religion is - what? Pure theology? Or taking care of the orphan and the widow?

Have we forgotten the two greatest commandments? LOVE

LOVE IT!

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

Unless we can accept that emotions do play a part in forming our theology, then our theology will never function properly in real life. 

Emotions play no part in how theology is formed.  Theology is formed solely by the writings of Scripture.   Emotions are fickle, unreliable.   Theology isn't what we "feel" it to be.   The Bible's doctrines are objective teachings of Scripture that form the basis for practical Christian living.   You cannot plug emotion into that without creating a incoherent theology that changes day-to-day depending on how a person feels.  An incoherent theology based on feelings is what make us unable to function properly, because our emotions always move the goalposts and there is no reliable standard for right and wrong.

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What you are implying is scholastic reasoning for proper theology ... I am speaking of reality based theology and how it is formed. 

I am not implying anything scholastic.   I am simply stating that theology is informed by Scripture, not emotion.  "Reality-based theology?"   The Scriptures are God's perspective on reality.   They address real life.   There is no such thing as "reality-based theology."   Reality for one person is different than another because all of us operate from separate paradigms or perspectives on reality.   If you base theology in "reality" then what you have is each person having a view of God that is embedded in their own unique experience and that would only lead to a chaotic, morass of belief systems, each one looking the Bible subjectively through their own personal lens.   You would have an endless assortment of contradictory views on God, the Bible, Jesus, etc.  and people making up their own doctrines as they go.   That would lead a moral crisis as each person is operating from his own "reality-based theology" morality would end being a subjective value.

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We cannot just turn off emotions, no matter what the books tell us.  Emotions play a part of every aspect of our lives, including forming our personal theology.

Your "personal" theology?   Doesn't work that way.  We may different way of applying theology, but theology isn't "personal."   It's because people form their own personal theology that we have people out there trying to make homosexuality acceptable and a valid expression of faith in Jesus.   Personal theology is just people making up what they want to believe and trying to mold the Bible around their own personal "truth."   Real theology is rooted in an objective study and exposition of Scripture.  It is not rooted in emotion.   Emotions are what want to avoid in determining truth.

We live in a postmodern world that is all about feelings and emotions and things being true because they make us feel good or their false or wrong because they make us feel bad.  It's why people form a theology that eliminates Hell, that makes the Bible into a smorgasbord where we can pick and choose based on our personal taste or what we feel at the moment.  It's why the world (and some Christians) like the gentle Jesus, meek and mild, but reject the King of Kings and the Eternal Judge of all mankind.   It's people who form a personal theology that ends up with a Jesus they can define and control and whose words are teachings are expendable.

[OneLight]

On 12/23/2016 at 7:23 PM, shiloh357 said:

Emotions play no part in how theology is formed.  Theology is formed solely by the writings of Scripture.   Emotions are fickle, unreliable.   Theology isn't what we "feel" it to be.   The Bible's doctrines are objective teachings of Scripture that form the basis for practical Christian living.   You cannot plug emotion into that without creating a incoherent theology that changes day-to-day depending on how a person feels.  An incoherent theology based on feelings is what make us unable to function properly, because our emotions always move the goalposts and there is no reliable standard for right and wrong.

I am not implying anything scholastic.   I am simply stating that theology is informed by Scripture, not emotion.  "Reality-based theology?"   The Scriptures are God's perspective on reality.   They address real life.   There is no such thing as "reality-based theology."   Reality for one person is different than another because all of us operate from separate paradigms or perspectives on reality.   If you base theology in "reality" then what you have is each person having a view of God that is embedded in their own unique experience and that would only lead to a chaotic, morass of belief systems, each one looking the Bible subjectively through their own personal lens.   You would have an endless assortment of contradictory views on God, the Bible, Jesus, etc.  and people making up their own doctrines as they go.   That would lead a moral crisis as each person is operating from his own "reality-based theology" morality would end being a subjective value.

Your "personal" theology?   Doesn't work that way.  We may different way of applying theology, but theology isn't "personal."   It's because people form their own personal theology that we have people out there trying to make homosexuality acceptable and a valid expression of faith in Jesus.   Personal theology is just people making up what they want to believe and trying to mold the Bible around their own personal "truth."   Real theology is rooted in an objective study and exposition of Scripture.  It is not rooted in emotion.   Emotions are what want to avoid in determining truth.

We live in a postmodern world that is all about feelings and emotions and things being true because they make us feel good or their false or wrong because they make us feel bad.  It's why people form a theology that eliminates Hell, that makes the Bible into a smorgasbord where we can pick and choose based on our personal taste or what we feel at the moment.  It's why the world (and some Christians) like the gentle Jesus, meek and mild, but reject the King of Kings and the Eternal Judge of all mankind.   It's people who form a personal theology that ends up with a Jesus they can define and control and whose words are teachings are expendable.

You are repeating yourself.  Yes, theology is personal.  If theology was universal, we all would have the same theology, so your statement proves itself wrong.  No matter how hard you try, you cannot separate yourself from your theology, which makes it personal.  Just as our relationship with God is personal, so is our theology.