missmuffet Posted February 10, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 10, 2017 25 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said: So, your works also save you? Jesus death and resurrection was not enough to save you? Scripture teaches "Then they inquired, 'What must we do to perform the works of God?'Jesus answered, 'The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.'" (John 6:8-9) Our works are what we do to show appreciation to GOD for what HE has done for us......sending us HIS Son, but they cannot save us. To GOD our works are nothing but filthy rags. 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 says "If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, his workmanship will be evident, because the DAY will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved--even though only as one escaping through the flames." What do you think about this Rick? It is Biblical. Question: "Why is faith without works dead?" Answer: James says, “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also” (James 2:26). Faith without works is a dead faith because the lack of works reveals an unchanged life or a spiritually dead heart. There are many verses that say that true saving faith will result in a transformed life, that faith is demonstrated by the works we do. How we live reveals what we believe and whether the faith we profess to have is a living faith.James 2:14–26 is sometimes taken out of context in an attempt to create a works-based system of righteousness, but that is contrary to many other passages of Scripture. James is not saying that our works make us righteous before God but that real saving faith is demonstrated by good works. Works are not the cause of salvation; works are the evidence of salvation. Faith in Christ always results in good works. The person who claims to be a Christian but lives in willful disobedience to Christ has a false or dead faith and is not saved. Paul basically says the same thing in 1 Corinthians 6:9–10. James contrasts two different types of faith—true faith that saves and false faith that is dead. Many profess to be Christians, but their lives and priorities indicate otherwise. Jesus put it this way: “By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers’” (Matthew 7:16–23). Notice that the message of Jesus is the same as the message of James. Obedience to God is the mark of true saving faith. James uses the examples of Abraham and Rahab to illustrate the obedience that accompanies salvation. Simply saying we believe in Jesus does not save us, nor does religious service. What saves us is the Holy Spirit’s regeneration of our hearts, and that regeneration will invariably be seen in a life of faith featuring ongoing obedience to God. Misunderstanding the relationship of faith and works comes from not understanding what the Bible teaches about salvation. There are really two errors in regards to works and faith. The first error is “easy believism,” the teaching that, as long as a person prayed a prayer or said, “I believe in Jesus,” at some point in his life, then he is saved, no matter what. So a person who, as a child, raised his hand in a church service is considered saved, even though he has never shown any desire to walk with God since and is, in fact, living in blatant sin. This teaching, sometimes called “decisional regeneration,” is dangerous and deceptive. The idea that a profession of faith saves a person, even if he lives like the devil afterwards, assumes a new category of believer called the “carnal Christian.” This allows various ungodly lifestyles to be excused: a man may be an unrepentant adulterer, liar, or bank robber, but he’s saved; he’s just “carnal.” Yet, as we can see in James 2, an empty profession of faith—one that does not result in a life of obedience to Christ—is in reality a dead faith that cannot save. The other error in regards to works and faith is to attempt to make works part of what justifies us before God. The mixture of works and faith to earn salvation is totally contrary to what Scripture teaches. Romans 4:5 says, “To him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.” James 2:26 says, “Faith without works is dead.” There is no conflict between these two passages. We are justified by grace through faith, and the natural result of faith in the heart is works that all can see. The works that follow salvation do not make us righteous before God; they simply flow from the regenerated heart as naturally as water flows from a spring. Salvation is a sovereign act of God whereby an unregenerate sinner has the “washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit” poured out on him (Titus 3:5), thereby causing him to be born again (John 3:3). When this happens, God gives the forgiven sinner a new heart and puts a new spirit within him (Ezekiel 36:26). God removes his sin-hardened heart of stone and fills him with the Holy Spirit. The Spirit then causes the saved person to walk in obedience to God’s Word (Ezekiel 36:26–27). Faith without works is dead because it reveals a heart that has not been transformed by God. When we have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, our lives will demonstrate that new life. Our works will be characterized by obedience to God. Unseen faith will become seen by the production of the fruit of the Spirit in our lives (Galatians 5:22). Christians belong to Christ, the Good Shepherd. As His sheep we hear His voice and follow Him (John 10:26–30). Faith without works is dead because faith results in a new creation, not a repetition of the same old patterns of sinful behavior. As Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:17, “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.” Faith without works is dead because it comes from a heart that has not been regenerated by God. Empty professions of faith have no power to change lives. Those who pay lip service to faith but who do not possess the Spirit will hear Christ Himself say to them, “I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers” (Matthew 7:23). https://www.gotquestions.org/faith-without-works-dead.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Yes, it's Biblical. Not your own words, though. What do you think that all means? And please, explain to me the parable of the Prodigal Son. Is it about a "Son" who left his "Father," taking along his "inheritance" which he promptly squandered?When he had nothing left, he returned to his "Father" on his knees, who treated him as if he had never left; treating him the same as the elder "Son" who had never left? How does that reflect the way that our Heavenly Father thinks of us? Don't get me wrong, works done at the behest of Christ and for His glory are proof of our salvation, but Scripture also teaches us that we should do them in secret. We do them out of love for Christ, but not to ensure or "prove" our Salvation. We are saved by Grace, through Faith, not by works. Christ's Work is a finished Work which doesn't require any help from us except faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted February 11, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Rick_Parker said: Yes, it's Biblical. Not your own words, though. What do you think that all means? And please, explain to me the parable of the Prodigal Son. Is it about a "Son" who left his "Father," taking along his "inheritance" which he promptly squandered?When he had nothing left, he returned to his "Father" on his knees, who treated him as if he had never left; treating him the same as the elder "Son" who had never left? How does that reflect the way that our Heavenly Father thinks of us? Don't get me wrong, works done at the behest of Christ and for His glory are proof of our salvation, but Scripture also teaches us that we should do them in secret. We do them out of love for Christ, but not to ensure or "prove" our Salvation. We are saved by Grace, through Faith, not by works. Christ's Work is a finished Work which doesn't require any help from us except faith. Yes, that is true. Only the RCC believe that we are saved only by our works.....right? Like the ministry of "Got Questions" said " The lack of works reveals an unchanged life or a spiritually dead heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WholeyGod'schild Posted February 15, 2017 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 44 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 35 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/30/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 15, 2017 On 2/10/2017 at 2:45 PM, missmuffet said: Faith without works is dead. James 2:14-26 What James was talking about is , saying you trust God without acting on that faith it isn't faith at all. example Mark 12:43-44 43Jesus called His disciples to Him and said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more than all the others into the treasury. 44For they all contributed out of their surplus, but she out of her poverty has put in all she had to live on.” Abraham took Issac up to mount Moriah as ordered by God. he had the faith in the almighty God that if he laid his sons life down as commanded God could surely rise him from the dead. but if he didn't he was still God!. That is faith with works. That is faith with works in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limey_Bob Posted March 30, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 327 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 172 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 30, 2017 On 1/31/2017 at 4:26 AM, Kevin_ said: My previous post (which was longer and more detailed) didn't seem to work for whatever reason so I'm just gonna cut right into the chase with this abridged version. I think my family is going to be left behind in the rapture. My parents believe in God, they claim to be Christian, and were once dedicated servants to the Lord, but now they live a more sinful lifestyle of smoking, cursing, etc. My mom does drive my brother, sister and I to church on most Sundays and Wednesdays, but none of them go themselves. My brother and sister read the Bible and pray two to three times a day, but they do not dedicate their lives to the Lord as much as I try to. I've been praying to the Lord asking for help on this, but nothing seems to be happening. I'm a very introverted person and I stutter frequently whenever I talk about very serious matters with my parents. I just keep going through my mind, thinking about how awkward the situation would be, and how much I'll likely mess up while telling them what they need to do. I keep reading articles about how the Rapture can happen at any moment, and that just fuels my stress more. I'm very confident that, if I don't tell my family members before I run out of time, they will be left behind and they will suffer. This has completely ruined my image of what the Rapture would look like. The Rapture is always described as what should be the most happy point in a Christian's life. Getting to meet up with Jesus Christ himself, in the air, and be taken to live eternally in Heaven, when I think about this, it honestly sounds great, but then I remember that my family likely won't be there in the sky with me. I keep including the same phrase in my prayers every night, telling and asking the Lord to keep me focus on informing my parents about how their lives are on a train track, and the Rapture is the train. I want to enjoy the coming of Christ, and I want my family to enjoy it with me. Hello Kevin, firstly with regard to your mentioning; "going to church" that action is actually completely impossible, as the word "church" in the Greek new Testament is "ekklesia" which means; "the called out ones," so you are the Church, you cannot go to a Church (ekklesia) when you are a part of the Church yourself. Sadly, the early church adopted from Constantine in the 4th century, the false idea that religion was to be done in a special building, as had happened for hundreds of years in the pagan Roman faith. This idea influenced early Christianity, corrupting it, taking faith out of the home (as in Judaism), primarily over meal times and daily fellowship in the house (Acts 2:46), and into buildings where it was now cold, informal and presided over by the unbiblical idea of a clergy class, who even worse, got paid for their religious duties. Over time this combination of buildings (which now got to be called the Church rather than the people), the clergy and the fact that they were paid money, with free houses, food, transport etc, corrupted the faith. Secondly, although there are some Godly ministers whom I respect such as Chuck Missler who do believe in the rapture, not all Christians believe in this doctrine. The rapture is a sub-part of a doctrine called Dispensationalism which is distinctly of an American Evangelical flavour. It started in Dublin in Ireland in the early 19th century, moved to England and then by the mid 19th century moved to America where it took off like wildfire, today most distinctly American movements such as Pentecostalism, Charismatic movement and independent Baptist Churches teach aspects of Dispensationalism, such as the rapture even if they have never heard of this doctrine. I live in the UK, over here in Europe the rapture is less accepted, only the Pentecostal and Charismatic sects coming from America, as well as the old time Brethren, a tiny British sect and many baptists hold to the rapture. I myself would place the "snatching up" to meet the Lord in the air, at the last day and at the last hour, so unlike rapture believers, I see only one second coming, not effectively two second comings of rapture first and then 3 and a half years later the revelation (second second coming). I know of an excellent sermon online which explains the errors of Dispensationalism, I am new to this forum, please will the admins let me know if I have permission to post it, it is on my YouTube channel which is not monetised, the sermon is not be me so I would not be promoting myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted March 30, 2017 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Limey_Bob said: "church" in the Greek new Testament is "ekklesia" which means; "the called out ones,".... so you are the Church, you cannot go to a Church (ekklesia) when you are a part of the Church yourself.... Welcome~! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No124get1952 Posted March 30, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 159 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 184 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/31/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/17/1952 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I feel your pain. I raised 9 children and only one is still serving the Lord. I am sure that when the Rapture occurs, many of them will be left behind. But I think the root of the issue you have is more personal. I get a sense of uncertainty about your own condition....and I am NOT questioning your salvation. The Rapture teaching is a definite New Testament doctrine, though from my intense study, the exact timing is still hotly debated and cannot be solved by further study of scripture. There are some Christians who maintain there is no Rapture. A very wise Pastor of mine taught all positions of this doctrine to make sure he completely covered the subject and then said it DIDN'T EVEN REALLY MATTER!!!! Can you believe it? Why did he say that? And why do I agree with him? Well, our Great Commission is to preach the gospel to all creatures and make disciples. We will either complete that mission before He comes or we won't. Since preaching the Gospel to every person on earth is one of those things that happens before the rapture, He won't come until we finish that, so the rapture could be this afternoon or a century from this afternoon. So we need to be about the Great Commission as our first priority IF we want Jesus to come soon. If we don't want that to be our priority, we are going to get left anyway. From one perspective, Christians left behind will be the biggest preachers during the Great Tribulation...or they will completely fall away and take "the mark" and change their eternal destination. Either way, the decision is a personal one, up to each one of us. If you do not want to see your relatives, friends, etc. "left behind", the best way to get busy is to begin praying for them and asking God to send them signs and testimonies that will win their heart. Your nagging them about it is probably NOT going to encourage them to get straight. But your active, powerful prayer life combined with a healthy dose of acts of service to help win others, will speak volumes to them. The other thing that will make them thirsty is your own joy-filled, secure life serving Jesus. If they get jealous of your Spiritual life, God may be getting ready to use you to witness to them. All we can do is pray and occupy and thank God in advance for their spiritual renewal. I am not concerned about the devil because I am pretty sure I am going to be stomping a mud hole in the devil when Jesus comes. Most Christians want a little more warning than a trumpet blast to "get right" before Jesus comes. The secret is to get right now and to stay right for then. Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.png.d66ed54df0b86d8d032d9c95aa690b01.png)
Recommended Posts