The shroud of turin and stigmata

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, zorgblar said:

I was referring to the stigmata phenomena in general.So your right davida.

I also totally disagree.

[OneLight]

1 minute ago, Davida said:

Ok, gotcha!  Sorry...I got all confused!

In threads like this, that is not hard to do!  No problem!

[missmuffet]

It is doubtful the shroud of Turin is Jesus Christ. Many are trying to get evidence and proof that there is a Jesus Christ. Even if the shroud is Jesus Christ it is not to be worshiped.

[missmuffet]

As far as the stigmata:

Question: "Stigmata - what is it? Is it biblical?"

Answer: Stigmata are the appearance of the wounds of Jesus Christ on a person’s body. Some stigmata include representations of the wounds on Christ's back caused by the scourging and/or the head wounds caused by the crown of thorns. But traditionally stigmata consist of five classic points: the side (where Jesus was pierced with the spear to confirm that He was dead), and both hands and both feet (the wounds caused by the nails of the crucifixion). Stigmata are also known as the "Five Wounds" or the "Sacred Wounds of our Lord."

Several individuals in church history have claimed to have miraculously received stigmata. However, there are serious challenges to the legitimacy of these supposed appearances. Many have been proven to have been self-inflicted in an attempt to fake miraculous stigmata. The Bible nowhere instructs anyone to get stigmata or states that God will give stigmata. In Galatians 6:17, Paul states, "...for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus." This does not mean Paul literally had the scars of crucifixion. Rather, it indicates that Paul's body was scarred due to his commitment to follow Christ. Jesus suffered the wounds so we would not have to. The wounds of crucifixion being miraculously inflicted on the body of a believer contradicts the fact that "He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed" (Isaiah 53:5).

https://www.gotquestions.org/stigmata.html

[Ezra]

3 hours ago, zorgblar said:

Do you believe that the shroud of turin and stigmata are christian?

They are "Christian" in the sense that they are connected to the Catholic Church.  

The shroud dates back to the Middle Ages and to Europe, so it is very doubtful that is has anything to do with the actual cloth in which Christ was wrapped while entombed.

As to stigmata, the eminent theologian B. B. Warfield wrote a book titled Counterfeit Miracles (1918, 1972, 1976) in which he discussed this phenomenon (pp.84-92).  This also goes back to the Middle Ages (Catherine of Siena etc), and Catholics believe that stigmatics were participating in the sufferings of Christ. However, a pathological explanation for these phenomena has been postulated, brought on by auto-suggestion.

[Jayne]

I have always been a non-believer in the authenticity of the shroud. Here's why.

[1] The Bible says that after his death that Jesus didn't even look human. I don't see much signs of physical suffering in the shroud to cause someone to not look human.  Isaiah 52:14  The Suffering Servant - "Just as many were astonished at you,– so his appearance was disfigured so to lose resemblance with man, so his form was marred beyond recognition as a man."

[2]  The impression of the face shows a completely manicured beard and mustache. The Bible says in the Messianic chapter of Isaiah 50 that Jesus' beard was ripped out.

[3]  Matthew 27:27-31 says that Jesus was beaten about the head with a staff "again and again". The face in the shroud shows no sign of being beaten: no swollen features and no hematomas [sp?].

[4]  The shroud is one long piece of material, but the Bible says that the headpiece was separate from the body piece.  John 20:7  "And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself."

There's more, but for those who believe, I won't convince them and for those who doubt, they need no more discussion.

It doesn't affect eternity so I'll not try to convince anyone of anything.

[Jayne]

7 hours ago, zorgblar said:

But i believe in stigmata.Because in galatians 6:17 doesn't paul say he has stigmata?

No, Paul does not say that he bears a stigmata.

What he does say is, " And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. From now on let no one trouble me, for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus. Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen. "

Paul was a physically scarred man.  He had been: snakebit, shipwrecked, beaten [five times], stoned and left for dead, temporarily blinded, and more.

By his own words, Paul said he had received 39 lashes with the whip FIVE times.  That's 195 lashes.  Can you imagine what his back and rest of his body looked like?

Jesus even told Ananias in Acts 9 to tell Paul that he is going to suffer MANY things for His sake.

This has nothing to do with the unhealthy and mystical belief in people spontaneously bleeding from their feet, hands, and head.

[Heavenunlimited]

No its probably demonic, why would The Lord do something like that?  And were supposed to go to the Word..and The Lord.. Not all other..  

[Guest BacKaran]

Per Jaynes response

John 20:7  "And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself."

The customs of the Jewish people are truly amazing as how everything related to God, Jesus, Holy Spirit is woven thru the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

the importance of the head wrap folded and placed in another place tells us He is returning.

In Jewish culture, at the dinner table, a person would fold their napkins whenever they left the table, letting the server know not to clear his place yet.

It is the little nuances that complete the redemption story like this folded napkin that tell us much when we dug deeper into His word.

? Blessings,

Karan

[Jayne]

6 minutes ago, BacKaran said:

Per Jaynes response

John 20:7  "And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself."

The customs of the Jewish people are truly amazing as how everything related to God, Jesus, Holy Spirit is woven thru the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

the importance of the head wrap folded and placed in another place tells us He is returning.

In Jewish culture, at the dinner table, a person would fold their napkins whenever they left the table, letting the server know not to clear his place yet.

It is the little nuances that complete the redemption story like this folded napkin that tell us much when we dug deeper into His word.

? Blessings,

Karan

I've heard that before - thanks for repeating it here.