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How do you view Daniel 2


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20 hours ago, brakelite said:

 

It's all in the detail.....

 

For the most part you get the details correct or either you copy and paste (whichever it be)  is pretty straightforward, but you go off the rails after a long while and start down a path that diverges from the scriptures. I will try and highlight the places in both posts where I disagree, both are fairly long, I read both but there is no use replying where I agree with things that are a foregone conclusion.  If I see something that I agree with that I hadn't thought about I will point that out also.

 

20 hours ago, brakelite said:

What we know of the image is that there are just 4 kingdoms or empires from the beginning of Babylon to the second coming. These four are destroyed by the rock of Christ at His coming.

Daniel 2:33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. Actually there is Five as shown here, the fourth is Iron (Rome) and the Fifth is Iron & Clay. I know that seems like a minor detail but it is very important. 

20 hours ago, brakelite said:

2. The iron begins from the victory over the Greeks, and continues unbroken (albeit in another form) right to the end. In other words, there is no gap in history- no “revived” Roman empire that is yet to come. Rome is still with us today, there has never been any full or conclusive end to the Roman empire as yet.

 

Here is where you start going off the tracks, imho. Rome does not continue its Kingdom for over 2000 years unto the present day. A Beast is a Beast because it has Conquered, Enslaved or Ruled Israel. This is why the USA/USSR/China/Ottoman Empire or the British Empire can not be a BEAST POWER. Israel was as Dead Men's Bones as Ezekiel prophesied, until 1948 when the prophesy was fulfilled again, "Can these Bones live again Son of Man?" and yes, those bones came alive again in 1948, thus you can now have the LAST BEAST (a Man) come to power. Rome was not a BEAST over Israel, they were diminished in their power just like Daniel 7 says, as were Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. But the very last BEAST POWER, the Anti-Christ/Little Horn will be cast straight into hell just like Rev. 19:20 states.........Daniel 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. 12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time

{ So these other Beasts had their powers/dominions take away, but the Last Beast/Anti-Christ is destroyed and cast int hell along with the False Prophet. Rome is not in power for 2000 years. The Little Horn arises out of Greece/European Union. Out of the Fourth Beasts Head along with the 10 Kings/horns. The Kings receive Power ONE HOUR with the Beast, not for a 2000 year period via Saxons, Vandals, Franks etc. etc. etc. You make the same mistakes here as you point out about Antiochus to others, it doesn't fit nor ca it fit. Yo have this(RCC) Roman Catholic Church thing going on, and its blocking your vision brother. }

20 hours ago, brakelite said:

This ‘little horn’ was to exceed the greatness of all the preceding horns. Media/Persia “became great” (Daniel 8:4); The he-goat itself was to wax “very great”, (Daniel 8:8), but this little horn was to grow and become “exceeding great”.( Daniel 8:9). It is claimed by many, in fact it has almost become standard belief in modern Christian thought, that Antiochus Epiphanes is represented by this little horn.

Good catch on the EXCEEDING GREAT I never noticed the levels being upped in sequence like that from great to exceeding great. As per Antiochus, I don't see how anyone confuses him as anything in prophecy. Daniel 8 speaks about that Little Horn coming against the Prince (Jesus) of princes. They just have preconceived notions that can't relinquish. Your ABC taking points on Antiochus were pretty spot on also. 

21 hours ago, brakelite said:

Therefore,
And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

can only refer to the empire of Rome, and thus is the Daniel 8 parallel to not just the 4th beast of Daniel 7…

I kind of disagree, though I admit the Little Horn arises out of the Fourth Beast, the Fourth Beast Roman Empire is long since gone as a Beast power. Its the Little Horn/Anti-Christ/Beast that waxes Exceeding Great towards the South, East and Holy Land of Israel. 

 

21 hours ago, brakelite said:

The ten horns represent the ten kingdoms into which the Roman Empire was divided when it fell apart. These ten kingdoms, according to Edward Gibbon, were: The Alemanni, the Franks, the Burgundians, the Vandals, the Suevi, the Visigoths, the Saxons, the Ostrogoths, the Lombards and the Heruli (see, M. H. Brown, The Sure Word of Prophecy, pp. 54, 55).
“The historian Machiavel, without the slightest reference to this prophecy, gives the following list of the nations which occupied the territory of the Western Empire at the time of the fall of Romulus Augustulus [476 A. D], the last emperor of Rome: The Lombards, the Franks, the Burgundians, the Ostrogoths, the Visigoths, the Vandals, the Heruli, the Sueves, the Huns, and the Saxons: ten in all.” (H. Grattan Guinness, The Divine Program of the World’s History, p. 318).

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. { This tells us when we take our blinders off, these "Kings" are not the Vandals, Franks etc. etc., because they do not receive power until the End Times. That also arise just like the Little Horn, in the End Time, out of the Fourth Beasts Head. 

Revelation 13 tells us there are actually Seven Heads to the Beast not Four or Five (Really Five) as Daniel implies. Daniel was only told about the Beasts from his time Forward. Egypt and Assyria were BEATS also, the Conquered/Enslaved Israel. Rev. 17 is the key to solving this complex riddle. The Angel shows us the Mystery of the Woman (Harlot) and the Beast (7 Headed) she rides. Knowing the LAST BEAST will be a MAN and not a Kingdom the Angel reduces (10/20, 5/10 to 1/2) the Kingdoms of the Seven Headed Beast to Kings who have Fallen. 

Rev. 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are (THEY ARE ALSO) seven kings: five are fallen, (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece) and one is (Rome), and the other is not yet come; (Anti-Christ/Little Horn/BEAST) and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. {{ Of course the 8th is a Demonic entity who was over ALL SEVEN. Just like Jesus Christ is our Lord. So the Seven Headed Beast is explained to us in detail. The Statue of Daniel 2 represents all Kingdoms of the earth that follow after the god of this world and not after God, this the BASE is made of Iron and Clay and is unstable, but Jesus is our Foundation, the Rock. The Clay, imho, represents MAN following Satan. }}

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

6 hours ago, brakelite said:

Thus is required a revision of my former declaration that there were six horns growing from the goat. The historicist hermeneutic demands a continuing historical panorama and cannot entertain the idea of a gap in which God appears to have no knowledge. 2000 years of ecclesiastical history in which the greatest apostasy occurred, the most vile persecutions, and God forgot to mention it?

God did not forget anything, Israel was as DEAD MEN'S BONES....The Church Age was and is here. When the Church is Raptured, the 70th Week of Daniels Prophecy will begin. The Little Horn/Anti-Christ will arise out of Greece and come to power via the European Union (Rome). 

7 hours ago, brakelite said:

horizontal plane to one that then “waxed great” on a vertical plane. Rome at first operated as a secular pagan entity. But here we see a change in her nature to a religious entity in that she began to attack the things of God and spiritual truths that pertain to heaven.
The little horn of Daniel 7:8, which grows out of the Roman empire amongst the former ten horns and uproots 3 of them, is also an entity which has aspirations of a more heavenly nature. Thus the little horn of Daniel 7 is the same as the little horn of Daniel 8 in its second phase as a religious power.

The Little Horn in Daniel 7 and 8 is the Anti-Christ/Beast. The one in Daniel 7:9 is cast straight into hell (Rev. 19:20) and the one in Daniel 8 is defeated by the Prince of princes (Jesus Christ) without hand (By the Holy Spirit).  The Religious power is the Harlot the Government power is Babylon. The Kings kill off the Harlot and demand the Anti-Christ be worshiped as GOD !! There is nor RCC Beast, the RCC might be a part of the HARLOT, as might others like the SDA etc. etc. But the Harlot as a WHOLE = All False Religion including Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Witchcraft, Babylonian Astrology (Horoscopes) etc. etc. 

7 hours ago, brakelite said:

We see here that the duration of this little horn does not end until the judgment. So it endures right up to the second coming, therefore is with us today. There are also much more written on this little horn. There is in fact more detail given concerning this horn than on any of the other beasts together. Thus it is abundantly clear that in His love and mercy God desires that we know who and what this entity is for it is clearly a threat to our spiritual welfare.

 

There could be NO BEAST without Israel in the land. There can now be a Beast, Israel is ALIVE AGAIN. The 10 Kings and the Little Horn Arises out of the Fourth Beasts Head in the END TIMES/LATTER TIMES. Why do you think there is only 10 Horns on the Seven Headed Beast that arises out of the Sea? Where did the Little Horn go? He is the SEVENTH HEAD, that is why there is not 11 Horns but only 10. The Last Beast Head is the Little Horn/Anti-Christ. (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome AND the Little Horn or Anti-Christ. That makes up the Seven Headed Beast.) 

7 hours ago, brakelite said:

3.The little horn rises after the ten horns (7:24). According to historians, the ten horns were complete in the year 476 A. D., so this must mean that the little horn was to arise to power sometime after 476 A. D.

 

These 10 Kings are END TIME KINGS...Revelation 17 tells you this, they receive power ONE HOUR (Short Time) with the BEAST. You are way off on that RCC, Vandals/Franks thing brother. 

7 hours ago, brakelite said:

7. The little horn would think it could change God’s “times”, that is to say, God’s timetable of prophetic events. (Daniel 2:21). We shall see that the little horn invented a false system of prophetic interpretation to rival historicism.

 

Times and Laws are not that complex as most make it out. He demands to be called/worshiped as God, thus he has no place for the old calendars, there will be a new calendar and it will say YEAR ONE in the year of the BEASTS NAME !! Then of course if this Beast destroys all Religions and demands Worship he is CHANGING LAWS.....This isn't as complex as many make it out to be.

7 hours ago, brakelite said:

9. The little horn would be different than the ten horns. It would be an amalgamation of church and state (7:24)

 

The Church will be Raptured, this BEAST isn't going to feign Christianity. The False Prophet might very well feign to be the Messiah, but Israel will be Saved and will have accepted Jesus by this time as their Messiah. 

7 hours ago, brakelite said:

11. The little horn had eyes like a man. In Bible Prophecy, eyes are a symbol of wisdom (see, Ephesians 1:18; Revelation 5:6). Even today, an owl is a symbol of wisdom because of its large eyes. In other words, this power was to depend on human wisdom.

 

He has EYES LIKE A MAN, because he is a MAN. 

7 hours ago, brakelite said:

It is commonly and correctly asserted that the “man of sin” and “son of perdition” spoken of in the NT are names given for this same entity. We are admonished by Paul regarding this entity:

 

He is the "Man of Sin" and son of Perdition only means he is condemned to hell. He will show up after the DEPARTURE of the Church just like 2 Thessalonians says.

7 hours ago, brakelite said:

In order to deceive the very elect and stand in Gods Temple ,he needs to rise out of the Church.

 

Matthew 24 tells us the very opposite IF we listen. Jesus has forewarned the Elect (Israel/the Church is in Heaven) not to go out unto the Desert or to the Secret Chambers where these fake christs and false prophets are performing miracles, then he says, BEHOLD I HAVE TOLD YOU....So it is NOT POSSIBLE to deceive the Elect because Jesus has forewarned them to look for his coming in the EASTERN SKIES.  

 

7 hours ago, brakelite said:

Here we see what was originally a true Christian. In the Greek the ‘falling away’ has connotations of divorce, apostasy. There is no falling away unless at first there was a right relationship. Therefore he doesn’t actually come from without the church, but from within. John also hints at this when he says :

The FALLING AWAY....Is the DEPARTURE of the Church or Rapture. 

God Bless.......

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On 30/05/2017 at 10:47 PM, Revelation Man said:

For the most part you get the details correct or either you copy and paste (whichever it be)  is pretty straightforward, but you go off the rails after a long while and start down a path that diverges from the scriptures. I will try and highlight the places in both posts where I disagree, both are fairly long, I read both but there is no use replying where I agree with things that are a foregone conclusion.  If I see something that I agree with that I hadn't thought about I will point that out also.

 

Daniel 2:33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. Actually there is Five as shown here, the fourth is Iron (Rome) and the Fifth is Iron & Clay. I know that seems like a minor detail but it is very important. 

Here is where you start going off the tracks, imho. Rome does not continue its Kingdom for over 2000 years unto the present day. A Beast is a Beast because it has Conquered, Enslaved or Ruled Israel. This is why the USA/USSR/China/Ottoman Empire or the British Empire can not be a BEAST POWER. Israel was as Dead Men's Bones as Ezekiel prophesied, until 1948 when the prophesy was fulfilled again, "Can these Bones live again Son of Man?" and yes, those bones came alive again in 1948, thus you can now have the LAST BEAST (a Man) come to power. Rome was not a BEAST over Israel, they were diminished in their power just like Daniel 7 says, as were Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. But the very last BEAST POWER, the Anti-Christ/Little Horn will be cast straight into hell just like Rev. 19:20 states.........Daniel 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. 12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time

{ So these other Beasts had their powers/dominions take away, but the Last Beast/Anti-Christ is destroyed and cast int hell along with the False Prophet. Rome is not in power for 2000 years. The Little Horn arises out of Greece/European Union. Out of the Fourth Beasts Head along with the 10 Kings/horns. The Kings receive Power ONE HOUR with the Beast, not for a 2000 year period via Saxons, Vandals, Franks etc. etc. etc. You make the same mistakes here as you point out about Antiochus to others, it doesn't fit nor ca it fit. Yo have this(RCC) Roman Catholic Church thing going on, and its blocking your vision brother. }

Good catch on the EXCEEDING GREAT I never noticed the levels being upped in sequence like that from great to exceeding great. As per Antiochus, I don't see how anyone confuses him as anything in prophecy. Daniel 8 speaks about that Little Horn coming against the Prince (Jesus) of princes. They just have preconceived notions that can't relinquish. Your ABC taking points on Antiochus were pretty spot on also. 

I kind of disagree, though I admit the Little Horn arises out of the Fourth Beast, the Fourth Beast Roman Empire is long since gone as a Beast power. Its the Little Horn/Anti-Christ/Beast that waxes Exceeding Great towards the South, East and Holy Land of Israel. 

 

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. { This tells us when we take our blinders off, these "Kings" are not the Vandals, Franks etc. etc., because they do not receive power until the End Times. That also arise just like the Little Horn, in the End Time, out of the Fourth Beasts Head. 

Revelation 13 tells us there are actually Seven Heads to the Beast not Four or Five (Really Five) as Daniel implies. Daniel was only told about the Beasts from his time Forward. Egypt and Assyria were BEATS also, the Conquered/Enslaved Israel. Rev. 17 is the key to solving this complex riddle. The Angel shows us the Mystery of the Woman (Harlot) and the Beast (7 Headed) she rides. Knowing the LAST BEAST will be a MAN and not a Kingdom the Angel reduces (10/20, 5/10 to 1/2) the Kingdoms of the Seven Headed Beast to Kings who have Fallen. 

Rev. 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are (THEY ARE ALSO) seven kings: five are fallen, (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece) and one is (Rome), and the other is not yet come; (Anti-Christ/Little Horn/BEAST) and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. {{ Of course the 8th is a Demonic entity who was over ALL SEVEN. Just like Jesus Christ is our Lord. So the Seven Headed Beast is explained to us in detail. The Statue of Daniel 2 represents all Kingdoms of the earth that follow after the god of this world and not after God, this the BASE is made of Iron and Clay and is unstable, but Jesus is our Foundation, the Rock. The Clay, imho, represents MAN following Satan. }}

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

God did not forget anything, Israel was as DEAD MEN'S BONES....The Church Age was and is here. When the Church is Raptured, the 70th Week of Daniels Prophecy will begin. The Little Horn/Anti-Christ will arise out of Greece and come to power via the European Union (Rome). 

The Little Horn in Daniel 7 and 8 is the Anti-Christ/Beast. The one in Daniel 7:9 is cast straight into hell (Rev. 19:20) and the one in Daniel 8 is defeated by the Prince of princes (Jesus Christ) without hand (By the Holy Spirit).  The Religious power is the Harlot the Government power is Babylon. The Kings kill off the Harlot and demand the Anti-Christ be worshiped as GOD !! There is nor RCC Beast, the RCC might be a part of the HARLOT, as might others like the SDA etc. etc. But the Harlot as a WHOLE = All False Religion including Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Witchcraft, Babylonian Astrology (Horoscopes) etc. etc. 

There could be NO BEAST without Israel in the land. There can now be a Beast, Israel is ALIVE AGAIN. The 10 Kings and the Little Horn Arises out of the Fourth Beasts Head in the END TIMES/LATTER TIMES. Why do you think there is only 10 Horns on the Seven Headed Beast that arises out of the Sea? Where did the Little Horn go? He is the SEVENTH HEAD, that is why there is not 11 Horns but only 10. The Last Beast Head is the Little Horn/Anti-Christ. (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome AND the Little Horn or Anti-Christ. That makes up the Seven Headed Beast.) 

These 10 Kings are END TIME KINGS...Revelation 17 tells you this, they receive power ONE HOUR (Short Time) with the BEAST. You are way off on that RCC, Vandals/Franks thing brother. 

Times and Laws are not that complex as most make it out. He demands to be called/worshiped as God, thus he has no place for the old calendars, there will be a new calendar and it will say YEAR ONE in the year of the BEASTS NAME !! Then of course if this Beast destroys all Religions and demands Worship he is CHANGING LAWS.....This isn't as complex as many make it out to be.

The Church will be Raptured, this BEAST isn't going to feign Christianity. The False Prophet might very well feign to be the Messiah, but Israel will be Saved and will have accepted Jesus by this time as their Messiah. 

He has EYES LIKE A MAN, because he is a MAN. 

He is the "Man of Sin" and son of Perdition only means he is condemned to hell. He will show up after the DEPARTURE of the Church just like 2 Thessalonians says.

Matthew 24 tells us the very opposite IF we listen. Jesus has forewarned the Elect (Israel/the Church is in Heaven) not to go out unto the Desert or to the Secret Chambers where these fake christs and false prophets are performing miracles, then he says, BEHOLD I HAVE TOLD YOU....So it is NOT POSSIBLE to deceive the Elect because Jesus has forewarned them to look for his coming in the EASTERN SKIES.  

 

The FALLING AWAY....Is the DEPARTURE of the Church or Rapture. 

God Bless.......

I will not answer ever point you make, mainly because they all derive from once divergence of opinion we have re history, and re interpretation of the beast symbol. First, I do not see the beasts per se as being specifically defined as conquerers of Israel, but rather as persecutors of God's people. Thus in the OT it was the faithful of Israel, (NOT necessarily the nation as such) and in the NT, the true church. Second point, Rome remained a kingdom, but altered its character when it became a "Holy Roman Empire" in the guise of the RCC. The RCC is a mere continuation of the rule of the Caesars...they have encapsulated within their rituals, their hierarchy, their traditions, much of ancient pagan Rome, AND, continue the persecuting practices of that ancient empire.

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31 minutes ago, brakelite said:

I will not answer ever point you make, mainly because they all derive from once divergence of opinion we have re history, and re interpretation of the beast symbol. First, I do not see the beasts per se as being specifically defined as conquerers of Israel, but rather as persecutors of God's people. Thus in the OT it was the faithful of Israel, (NOT necessarily the nation as such) and in the NT, the true church. Second point, Rome remained a kingdom, but altered its character when it became a "Holy Roman Empire" in the guise of the RCC. The RCC is a mere continuation of the rule of the Caesars...they have encapsulated within their rituals, their hierarchy, their traditions, much of ancient pagan Rome, AND, continue the persecuting practices of that ancient empire.

The Kings Receive Power ONE HOUR with the Beast..........not 2000 years Ago.........This RCC thing was outdated 25 years ago.

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On 6/06/2017 at 1:54 PM, Revelation Man said:

The Kings Receive Power ONE HOUR with the Beast..........not 2000 years Ago.........This RCC thing was outdated 25 years ago.

1500 years ago, by 476AD, the Roman empire had been divided up by Barbarian tribes which evolved over time into the modern nations of Europe. There were ten in the beginning, but through the influence and politicking of the then quickly apostatizing and growing Roman church, 3 of them were destroyed. This is history. The ten horns grew out of the former Roman empire, and 3 of them were plucked up by the roots before the presence of the little horn, the papacy. Again, history, and prophecy, perfectly aligned.

Dan. 7:24  And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings....

 

Now the ten kings you speak of which hold power one hour with the beast, are indeed yet future, thus are an entirely different set of rulers. The initial ten were local tribal powers which grew from the decaying empire, eg,  Suevi, Heruli, Ostrogoths, Lombards, Francs etc. The future ten kings you speak of are global. There are indications that the world even today is being divided into ten distinct regional administrative powers...I see the nations of today still being relatively independent, but aligned with others in blocs, such as espoused with Canada, the US, and Mexico.  The leaders of these ten blocs could well be described as kings, and together surrender their sovereignty in some respects, to Rome, for a short time.

I see no evidence in Revelation or Daniel of a world political superpower, so this one hour of power with the beast is not a political decision, but a religious one.....so I do see a single world religion...Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots. This is Satan's final counterfeit religious super-power set up for the final confrontation against God's people, His church. NOT the nation of Israel. Christians really do need to get that idea out of their heads, for it is completely obscuring the reality of current events, and the purposes for which Satan is developing his final Antichrist power. History has revealed the development of the Antichrist. First as pagan empires opposing Israel with the sole purpose of destroying the Messianic lines. Failing that, Satan's now object is to destroy the church. First, if he cannot destroy it through persecution, he will do so through deception. Read again the warnings of Jesus. Read again Revelation 13. It isn't about the nation of Israel, it is about deceiving God's people into worshiping falsely.

And you are playing into his hands by calmly laying aside the Vatican as having no relevance to Bible prophecy. What do we see today? Almost the entire Protestant world fawning at the feet of the papacy, and willing to "come home to mama". At a time when the prophetic message for these last days from God's people should be calling people out of Babylon, they are instead joining again with Babylon. Modern Protestantism has forgotten her forefathers, and the blood bought truths that the reformers taught and died for. The reformers may have differed on some aspects of theology as they were coming out of the old traditions and superstitions of Rome, and learning in what directions Bible truth was leading them, but one thing they all had in common. From Wycliffe to Cranmer, from Luther and Calvin to John Smith and Roger Williams, and dozens in between, they were all in agreement that either the office of papal power in general or the popes in particular, were the very Antichrist of scripture. Sad, even devastating, that in forgetting this truth, they are now falling over one another in order to curry favor with the very same Antichrist that seeks their ultimate destruction. As a student of prophecy, Revelation Man, you should know better.

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On 2/25/2017 at 7:20 AM, iamlamad said:

Does it bother you that your theory can be found in no commentary? I was not trying to "Lead" you anywhere; just trying to figure out how you came to such a belief. In fact, Rome did rule Israel. The Jews had to use Rome to crucify Jesus. And it was Rome in 70 AD that destroyed Israel. Therefore I disagree with you here.

However, please do continue and prove this from scripture. If the iron is not Rome in the Author's intent, I want to know it.

Kinda forgot about this thread. I'll get back to it tonight. I'll leave you with this before I go into more detail later: Romans crucified Jesus at the behest of Jews even after Pilate found Jesus innocent. Why? Because The Jews had great influence in Rome right up to the Emperor. I'm not saying they didn't rule in Israel. And the Romans destroyed Israel because of Jewish rebellion, not dictatorial caprice.

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6 hours ago, brakelite said:

1500 years ago, by 476AD, the Roman empire had been divided up by Barbarian tribes which evolved over time into the modern nations of Europe.

The reason I use 2000 years is because by 150 AD Israel was basically no more, rally before that, and 2000 is closer than 1500, and we are still awaiting. A beast can't really be a Beast unless Israel is alive. 

6 hours ago, brakelite said:

There were ten in the beginning, but through the influence and politicking of the then quickly apostatizing and growing Roman church, 3 of them were destroyed. This is history. The ten horns grew out of the former Roman empire, and 3 of them were plucked up by the roots before the presence of the little horn, the papacy. Again, history, and prophecy, perfectly aligned.

Dan. 7:24  And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings....

I agree its history but its irrelevant to the prophecies of end time in any way. There is two different Kingdoms here, Rome, then the 10 Kings and the Anti-Christ at the End Time. That is easily provable, because the Little Horn/Beast is cast into Hell in verse 11.

Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; (SEMI-COLON IS USED NOT A COMMA) AND it had ten horns. 8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

A semi-colon is used differently from a comma, of course. 

The main task of the semicolon is to mark a break that is stronger than a comma but not as final as a full stop. It’s used between two main clauses that balance each other and are too closely linked to be made into separate sentences, as in these two examples:

The road runs through a beautiful wooded valley; the railway line follows it.

An art director searched North Africa; I went to the Canary Islands.

Whereas a comma, which is just a pause that off-sets a phrase. The second is a semi-colon, "used to indicate a major division in a sentence where a more distinct separation is felt between clauses or items on a list than is indicated by a comma, as between the two clauses of a compound sentence."

;AND IT HAD 10 HORNS, means this is an end time event, these 10 Horns and this Little Horn are not a part of the Fourth Beast per se, they just arise in his footprint (Head). We know this has to be a fact because the 10 Horns are given power ONE HOUR with the BEAST and the BEAST is cast into hell when Jesus sets up the Judgment seats in Daniel 7:9-11 and in Rev. 20:4 and Rev. 19:20 where the Beast is cast into hell. 

The Fourth Beast is Rome, the Little Horn is an End Time Beast, the Kings come up and rule with him for a Short Time (One Hour) it can not be 2000 years ago or 1500 years ago. NOTICE, Gabriel interprets the dream below:

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from ALL (MEANING THE FIRST THREE) kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first ( USES FIRST HERE NOT ALL !! ), and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High (REV 13), and shall wear out the saints(REV 13) of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time (42 Months).

So, as we see above the Fourth Beast is the Fourth Kingdom, it is ROME, and it was diverse from ALL KINGDOMS [That came before it] as in ALL......and it shall devour the WHOLE EARTH, this phrase of course means ALL THE LAND in question, Nebuchadnezzar and Alexander the He Goat Great,  were said to have conquered the WHOLE EARTH also, and we know that is not the case, so the WHOLE EARTH doesn't mean the whole earth, it just means all the land in being spoken of. Of course Rome tread down and broke in pieces. It was also DIVERSE from the other three Kingdoms in many ways, they used a common language throughout their Kingdom, Koine Greek, All Roads led to Rome, they allowed self rule as log as the taxes were paid etc. etc. 

But verse 24 is about the End Times, the 10 Kings arise and the Little Horn arises just afterwards, in Europe, 2000 years afterwards. AND He shall be diverse than the FROM THE FIRST [BEAST/ROME] Not from ALL....But from the FIRST. Of course he is, Rome was a Kingdom of successive Rulers/Emperors and this Little Horn is a BEAST all by himself, he will be the ONLY RULER, once he dies its over, he is cast straight into hell. 

Verse 25 shows he is the Anti-Christ of Rev. 13. The 10 Kings rule ONE HOUR with the Beast, not 1500 years.

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7 hours ago, brakelite said:

I see no evidence in Revelation or Daniel of a world political superpower, so this one hour of power with the beast is not a political decision, but a religious one.....

What? The Seven Headed Beast is Geo-political, the Harlot is False Religion, she rides the back of the Beast.

7 hours ago, brakelite said:

so I do see a single world religion...Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots. This is Satan's final counterfeit religious super-power set up for the final confrontation against God's people, His church. NOT the nation of Israel.

The Mother of Harlots and Babylon the Great are mentions that DESCRIBE the Harlot/False Religion, and the Anti-Christ is going to destroy the Harlot. She will be no more Rev. 17:16. The final BEAST DEMANDS to be worshiped as God, that is a command,not a world religion people are going to be deceived by. Israel will ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST as their Savior. That is exactly what the scriptures says happens. 

 

8 hours ago, brakelite said:

Christians really do need to get that idea out of their heads, for it is completely obscuring the reality of current events, and the purposes for which Satan is developing his final Antichrist power. History has revealed the development of the Antichrist. First as pagan empires opposing Israel with the sole purpose of destroying the Messianic lines. Failing that, Satan's now object is to destroy the church. First, if he cannot destroy it through persecution, he will do so through deception. Read again the warnings of Jesus. Read again Revelation 13. It isn't about the nation of Israel, it is about deceiving God's people into worshiping falsely.

And you are playing into his hands by calmly laying aside the Vatican as having no relevance to Bible prophecy. What do we see today? Almost the entire Protestant world fawning at the feet of the papacy, and willing to "come home to mama". At a time when the prophetic message for these last days from God's people should be calling people out of Babylon, they are instead joining again with Babylon. Modern Protestantism has forgotten her forefathers, and the blood bought truths that the reformers taught and died for. The reformers may have differed on some aspects of theology as they were coming out of the old traditions and superstitions of Rome, and learning in what directions Bible truth was leading them, but one thing they all had in common. From Wycliffe to Cranmer, from Luther and Calvin to John Smith and Roger Williams, and dozens in between, they were all in agreement that either the office of papal power in general or the popes in particular, were the very Antichrist of scripture. Sad, even devastating, that in forgetting this truth, they are now falling over one another in order to curry favor with the very same Antichrist that seeks their ultimate destruction. As a student of prophecy, Revelation Man, you should know better.

The bible clearly defines the role of Israel, after the Rapture. The RCC has nothing to do with the Beast or the Harlot per se. 

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48 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

The reason I use 2000 years is because by 150 AD Israel was basically no more, rally before that, and 2000 is closer than 1500, and we are still awaiting. A beast can't really be a Beast unless Israel is alive. 

I agree its history but its irrelevant to the prophecies of end time in any way. There is two different Kingdoms here, Rome, then the 10 Kings and the Anti-Christ at the End Time. That is easily provable, because the Little Horn/Beast is cast into Hell in verse 11.

Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; (SEMI-COLON IS USED NOT A COMMA) AND it had ten horns. 8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

A semi-colon is used differently from a comma, of course. 

The main task of the semicolon is to mark a break that is stronger than a comma but not as final as a full stop. It’s used between two main clauses that balance each other and are too closely linked to be made into separate sentences, as in these two examples:

The road runs through a beautiful wooded valley; the railway line follows it.

An art director searched North Africa; I went to the Canary Islands.

Whereas a comma, which is just a pause that off-sets a phrase. The second is a semi-colon, "used to indicate a major division in a sentence where a more distinct separation is felt between clauses or items on a list than is indicated by a comma, as between the two clauses of a compound sentence."

;AND IT HAD 10 HORNS, means this is an end time event, these 10 Horns and this Little Horn are not a part of the Fourth Beast per se, they just arise in his footprint (Head). We know this has to be a fact because the 10 Horns are given power ONE HOUR with the BEAST and the BEAST is cast into hell when Jesus sets up the Judgment seats in Daniel 7:9-11 and in Rev. 20:4 and Rev. 19:20 where the Beast is cast into hell. 

The Fourth Beast is Rome, the Little Horn is an End Time Beast, the Kings come up and rule with him for a Short Time (One Hour) it can not be 2000 years ago or 1500 years ago. NOTICE, Gabriel interprets the dream below:

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from ALL (MEANING THE FIRST THREE) kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first ( USES FIRST HERE NOT ALL !! ), and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High (REV 13), and shall wear out the saints(REV 13) of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time (42 Months).

So, as we see above the Fourth Beast is the Fourth Kingdom, it is ROME, and it was diverse from ALL KINGDOMS [That came before it] as in ALL......and it shall devour the WHOLE EARTH, this phrase of course means ALL THE LAND in question, Nebuchadnezzar and Alexander the He Goat Great,  were said to have conquered the WHOLE EARTH also, and we know that is not the case, so the WHOLE EARTH doesn't mean the whole earth, it just means all the land in being spoken of. Of course Rome tread down and broke in pieces. It was also DIVERSE from the other three Kingdoms in many ways, they used a common language throughout their Kingdom, Koine Greek, All Roads led to Rome, they allowed self rule as log as the taxes were paid etc. etc. 

But verse 24 is about the End Times, the 10 Kings arise and the Little Horn arises just afterwards, in Europe, 2000 years afterwards. AND He shall be diverse than the FROM THE FIRST [BEAST/ROME] Not from ALL....But from the FIRST. Of course he is, Rome was a Kingdom of successive Rulers/Emperors and this Little Horn is a BEAST all by himself, he will be the ONLY RULER, once he dies its over, he is cast straight into hell. 

Verse 25 shows he is the Anti-Christ of Rev. 13. The 10 Kings rule ONE HOUR with the Beast, not 1500 years.

This is a good post, Revelation Man!

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