Rev. 12: Heavenly Sign to appear in 2017 - What could it mean?

[Keras]

Hazard, Looking at Bible verses from the perspective that there will be a rapture, then you get what you think will happen, as above. 

But from the perspective of what all the prophets actually do tell us about God's plans for His people, then there is a different picture. 

'escape' in Luke 21:36, is better translated as: pray that you be accounted worthy to pass safely through these things...Revised English Bible. There will be an escape from the Great Tribulation that happens during the last 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns, for the faithful Christians. Revelation 12:14. 

John 14:1-2, says nothing about going to heaven, it tells of the New Jerusalem, that will come to earth after the Millennium. 

The fanciful idea that the Church will accompany Jesus at His Return, is totally refuted by Matthew 25:31. Also Revelation 19:14 is specific; it is the angelic army of heaven that comes with Jesus. 

Its time to get away from Satan's lies and understand the truth of what will happen; your byline is appropriate - I threw the Truth and you yelled!

[HAZARD]

6 minutes ago, Keras said:

Hazard, Looking at Bible verses from the perspective that there will be a rapture, then you get what you think will happen, as above. 

But from the perspective of what all the prophets actually do tell us about God's plans for His people, then there is a different picture. 

'escape' in Luke 21:36, is better translated as: pray that you be accounted worthy to pass safely through these things...Revised English Bible. There will be an escape from the Great Tribulation that happens during the last 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns, for the faithful Christians. Revelation 12:14. 

John 14:1-2, says nothing about going to heaven, it tells of the New Jerusalem, that will come to earth after the Millennium. 

The fanciful idea that the Church will accompany Jesus at His Return, is totally refuted by Matthew 25:31. Also Revelation 19:14 is specific; it is the angelic army of heaven that comes with Jesus. 

Its time to get away from Satan's lies and understand the truth of what will happen; your byline is appropriate - I threw the Truth and you yelled!

 

1 Thess. 4:16-17, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
v. 17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Its not a fanciful idea of mine or anyone else's. Get the gist of Revelation sorted out in your mind and you may eventually see the truth.

 

The purpose of Revelation was to show, not hide from His servants, events from John's day into all eternity (Rev. 21-22). Events of the whole church age (Rev. 1-3) Events in Heaven (Rev. 4-5) Events of the future tribulation of Daniel's 70th Week (Rev. 6-19) Events of the Millennium (Rev. 20) Events of the eternal new heavens and the new earth (Rev. 21-22).

"Unto His servant John," The book was transmitted from God to Christ, to the angel, to John, to the churches, to us (Rev.1:11).

The key to interpretation of the book of Revelation, "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter" (Rev. 1:19). "The things which thou hast seen"; that is, Christ in the midst of the seven candlesticks (Rev. 1:12-18, 20), as seen by John before he began to write.

"The things which are:" that is, the things concerning to churches then existent and those which should exist throughout the Church Age to the rapture. This division takes in only Rev. 3. "The things which shall be hereafter"; that is, the things which shall come to pass after the rapture of the church. This division includes all of the events of Rev. 4-22. One has only to believe this threefold natural division as given by Christ to understand the book fully, especially as to the time of the fulfilment of all the things of each division. The moment these divisions are forgotten and the reader begins to disarrange them and insert certain things into the one or the other that are not a part of the division, he will become confused as to the divine order of these "things" which are so clearly given in consecutive order, and he will miss the true intent of these "things" written therein.

To further prove that everything in Rev. 4-22 must be after the churches, and there after the rapture of the church, we have this fact confirmed in Rev. 4:1. After John had recorded the vision of Christ in Rev. 1, completing the first division of the book, he was told in Rev. 4:1 that he was to see "things which MUST BE hereafter," that is, after the things of the churches of the second division of the book. Therefore, if everything from Rev. 4:1 on through the rest of the book MUST BE after the churches, then all the events of Rev. 4-22 must be after the churches. If they MUST BE after the churches, then they cannot happen during the time of the churches. If they cannot happen during the time of the churches, then the church is no longer on the Earth during the fulfilment of the things which MUST BE after the churches.

 

[Keras]

8 hours ago, HAZARD said:

1 Thess. 4:16-17, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
v. 17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Its not a fanciful idea of mine or anyone else's. Get the gist of Revelation sorted out in your mind and you may eventually see the truth.

I never denied the plain Words of  v 17. There will be a meeting with Jesus in the clouds as He Returns. Then those who remain, the survivors after the Great Tribulation, will be with Him in Jerusalem. This will be a transportation similar to what happened to Philip. Acts 8: 38 

Using this prophecy to prove a rapture to heaven of the Church, is a joke, as it actually refutes such a notion. 

The gist of Revelation is the sequence of the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls; then the wrath of God is completed; Rev 15:1.  And the next prophesied event that we can expect, is the Sixth Seal. Be ready to call upon the Name of the Lord for His protection. 

[other one]

3 hours ago, Keras said:

I never denied the plain Words of  v 17. There will be a meeting with Jesus in the clouds as He Returns. Then those who remain, the survivors after the Great Tribulation, will be with Him in Jerusalem. This will be a transportation similar to what happened to Philip. Acts 8: 38 

Using this prophecy to prove a rapture to heaven of the Church, is a joke, as it actually refutes such a notion. 

The gist of Revelation is the sequence of the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls; then the wrath of God is completed; Rev 15:1.  And the next prophesied event that we can expect, is the Sixth Seal. Be ready to call upon the Name of the Lord for His protection. 

I think that verse may just be telling us that we now have new immortal bodies and we are no longer bound to earth, though we will be back here for the time being.

[OldCoot]

On 3/23/2017 at 3:12 PM, Keras said:

The Day of Trumpets - Yom Teruah,  IS a Day that no one can exactly foretell.

The sighting of the first sliver of the new moon from Jerusalem, sets the Day and it could be any one of several days.

 

You are most correct!  It is called the day that no man knows for exactly that reason.  Rosh Hashanah / Day of Trumpets / Yom Teruah is the only one of the Leviticus 23 feasts that falls on the first of the month.  And that cannot be determined until the new moon has been established by a minimum of two authorized witnesses.  

And Rosh Hashanah is a two day Moed (appointed time) as well.  

[Amazing Horse]

On 27.08.2017 at 4:08 PM, Abdicate said:

There are a lot of debates about the scriptures concerning when the Rapture will occur – to some, if at all. Thanks to Perry Stone’s observations I offer my version.

God, “Declaring the end from the beginning…” Isa 46:10a

 

What is written in Isa 46:10 is true . Go back to Genesis 1:1 and study the word Beginning in hebrew . In that one word God proclaim that he will die on cross in hebrew .

[Amazing Horse]

On 30.08.2017 at 3:31 AM, OldCoot said:

 

You are most correct!  It is called the day that no man knows for exactly that reason.  Rosh Hashanah / Day of Trumpets / Yom Teruah is the only one of the Leviticus 23 feasts that falls on the first of the month.  And that cannot be determined until the new moon has been established by a minimum of two authorized witnesses.  

And Rosh Hashanah is a two day Moed (appointed time) as well.  

To be able to have rapture on Yom Teruah to fullfill prophecy in Leviticus 23 about that feast and aswell made it that nobody knows what hour or day is it due to Matthew 24:36 , we are left with only one possible way - between days .

Luke 21:36 tells us to keep watch because we don't know .

Luke 12:37-38 tells us that blessed are watchmen who watch on 2nd and 3rd watch .

2nd Jewish watch end at 00:00 our gentile time , while 3rd watch would start thier watch , and trumpet is blown for 2nd watch because thier time to watch is over and they can go to home . It's easier to know if you could google "jewish day night cycle " on google graphic first image which will show up.

So if nobody can know day or hour and it will be on Feast of Trumpets then it can only be between days .

[OldCoot]

27 minutes ago, Amazing Horse said:

To be able to have rapture on Yom Teruah to fullfill prophecy in Leviticus 23 about that feast and aswell made it that nobody knows what hour or day is it due to Matthew 24:36 , we are left with only one possible way - between days .

Luke 21:36 tells us to keep watch because we don't know .

Luke 12:37-38 tells us that blessed are watchmen who watch on 2nd and 3rd watch .

2nd Jewish watch end at 00:00 our gentile time , while 3rd watch would start thier watch , and trumpet is blown for 2nd watch because thier time to watch is over and they can go to home . It's easier to know if you could google "jewish day night cycle " on google graphic first image which will show up.

So if nobody can know day or hour and it will be on Feast of Trumpets then it can only be between days .

Yeah, that could be a possibility.  I tend to side with the last shofar of Rosh Hashanah.  

[other one]

you've been here long enough to know that we can't post video's outside the video forum.

 

[Diaste]

We all need to hear this message:

 

10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 

As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”; 20 and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” 21 So then, no more boasting about human leaders! 

6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.

18 Some of you have become arrogant, as if I were not coming to you.19 But I will come to you very soon...  ...and then I will find out not only how these arrogant people are talking, but what power they have. 20 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power.21 What do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a rod of discipline, or shall I come in love and with a gentle spirit?

I am fully with Paul here though I think it's far worse than he imagined. It's true we are all brothers and sisters in Jesus but many are estranged. From what I have seen over the past 30+ years we have a problem. Many of us think if we simply have conviction in a thing, it's true. "I believe." That concept, when applied to scripture, dooms us to divisiveness.  We are not allowed to make this up as we go along. Scriptural truth cannot mean many things, as in one thing to one person or group, and another thing to another person or group. The words of the Lord God must mean only the thing God intended.  

In this forum I see just about everyone state, "I believe scripture means this." or "This is what scripture means to me." In allowing this we endure a myriad of interpretations of a particular passage or verse. That's sad, terrible, infuriating, and frustrating. Worse, this reduces truth a state of unreliability rendering much of scripture meaningless and ineffective. Just look at the megachurches and the wolves leading them, anything goes as long as the pews are shined and the collection plates full.

Obviously there are indisputable tenets we all agree on: crucifixion, resurrection, atonement, 2nd Coming, redemption; but after this we just say, "I believe." and we become comfortable in personal conviction avoiding any unpleasant truths. This is especially true in end time prophecy. "I believe." avoids any unpleasant result we wish to sidestep, true or not. Doesn't matter.  "I believe, therefore truth." This is what Eve did in the garden. She wanted to believe it was OK to eat of the tree, when she knew it was wrong, because the end result was desirable. This is what many of us do in end time prophecy and a great deal of scripture. "I believe." removes all the undesirable portions and subverts God's reality for us. No need for leg work, just find a wolf or a serpent that says what you want to hear and viola', truth!

Never mind opening scripture. Don't use a concordance to find all the references. Don't get a Greek or Aramaic dictionary and understand the definitions and usages. And above all don't rely on the Spirit for understanding after applying our faculties in a due diligence search for all God has provided of His truth. Just turn on the TV with your favorite cable or satellite provider and tune into the wolf or serpent that allays your fears and confirms your personal bias. Or check the internet. Every imaginable interpretation exists in this dimension and it's easy. Click. Click. Click. Personal convictions confirmed!

Get to work. Search Him out. Trust in God. Grow in His love. Shed fear. Rely on the Spirit. Shun earthly wisdom.

Most of all get out of the churches. Unless you feed on half truths and false doctrine, then by all means continue.