Why I am a Post-Millennialist

[Marcus O'Reillius]

3 hours ago, Limey_Bob said:

A covenant needs two parties, the old covenant was between God and man, the latter of whom always failed in keeping his or her part of the covenant, so that is why the Old Covenant failed. In the New Covenant, Christ being fully God and fully man, the covenant is still between God and man (ie. Father and Christ who is a man), but now this New Covenant will never be broken, as Christ keeps it perfectly, also as Christ is also fully God, his sacrifice on the cross, death and resurrection from the dead is of infinite worth, and thus his death can and does secure the salvation of millions, because it is of infinite value.

Did not God as the smoking oven and flaming torch alone walk between the cut up pieces of the heifer, goat, and ram in Genesis 15?

God knows we cannot do our part - no one is able to keep the Commandments: all have sinned.

And is not faith a requirement for Salvation in the New Covenant Jesus made at the Passover Seder?

Faith is more than just a belief in facts.  It is also a personal trust that Jesus will save us.  You can "know" Jesus is the Messiah, but still rebel against Him.  Nicodemus "knew" Jesus was from God, but he did not "believe" in Him.  The same is true for King Agrippa. 

Faith involves trust, and in the New Testament: repentance.  Faith and Repentance go hand in hand.  This serves as what we must do in order to fulfill our part of the New Covenant and so be saved.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

So: in the Old Testament, did not the great men in it, the patriarchs and the prophets, "trust" in God for their salvation and pray for remission of their sins?

Are they not worthy of being taken up at the Last Trumpet?

So too, in the Church Age, do we not "trust" in God and continually repent of our sins?  (And Christians still sin, we do not become perfect in our flesh by ourselves.)

Now, let us move to the Pre-Millennial eschatological model, when we, who do not believe as you do eschatologically, look forward to a future time when Jesus is a fact of life and can be seen?

Is faith still a requirement?

Yes.  Because a saving faith goes beyond merely accepting facts: it still remains as a trust in a future salvation.

Question to you: Are these different dispensations - before Christ, after Christ's first Advent, and after Christ's second Advent - not all united in one faith that God will save them eternally?

[Marcus O'Reillius]

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 5:55 AM, Limey_Bob said:

The 1,000 year reign is a spiritual reign in heaven, it is NOT geographic or a physical location, as in Christ’s eternal reign from Jerusalem after the second coming...

If you have a rule, and this is not a hard and fast rule we all must obey, that the New Testament to interpret the Old Testament - what the Millennial period described in Revelation 20 does, is explain how Jesus would be a present reality in the world as is described in the latter chapters of Ezekiel.

Using Revelation, as per your rule, we can also go back to those Millennial passages in Isaiah which describe a world unlike any we have now, with the understanding that Christ's Kingdom will be realized on this world.

Likewise, the allegorical figure of the statue from Nebuchadnezzar's dream, given to him by God, as is described in Daniel 2 - also has Christ's Kingdom filling the world after the obliteration of the Roman world - which never truly ended.  Indeed, it went on for centuries after in Rome, and also in its other "leg" in Constantinople.  The western "leg" was not obliterated after its falling to the barbarians of the North (Europeans still) and by the eighth century, was back in power in Rome, and latter it was rejuvenated by the eastern "leg" who fled before the muslim conquest from the "South."

We are still living in that Roman world of "Western" culture, and only now, are seeing the "clay" "mixed" ('arab) with our "iron" with the invasion of muslims not only into Europe, but as exists too in American and Russia.

[Limey_Bob]

On 4/5/2017 at 2:12 PM, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Did not God as the smoking oven and flaming torch alone walk between the cut up pieces of the heifer, goat, and ram in Genesis 15?

God knows we cannot do our part - no one is able to keep the Commandments: all have sinned.

And is not faith a requirement for Salvation in the New Covenant Jesus made at the Passover Seder?

Faith is more than just a belief in facts.  It is also a personal trust that Jesus will save us.  You can "know" Jesus is the Messiah, but still rebel against Him.  Nicodemus "knew" Jesus was from God, but he did not "believe" in Him.  The same is true for King Agrippa. 

Faith involves trust, and in the New Testament: repentance.  Faith and Repentance go hand in hand.  This serves as what we must do in order to fulfill our part of the New Covenant and so be saved.

I did state that faith is trust! I made that point several times in several posts. 

[seeking the lost]

On 3/30/2017 at 0:58 PM, missmuffet said:

I reject that interpretation.

 

Those who hold to postmillennialism believe that this world will become better and better—all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding—with the entire world eventually becoming “Christianized.” After this happens, Christ will return. However, this is not the view of the world in the end times that Scripture presents. From the book of Revelation, it is easy to see that the world will be a terrible place during that future time. Also, in 2 Timothy 3:1-7, Paul describes the last days as “terrible times.”

Those who hold to postmillennialism use a non-literal method of interpreting unfulfilled prophecy, assigning their own meanings to words. The problem with this is that when someone starts assigning meanings to words other than their normal meaning, a person can decide that a word, phrase, or sentence means anything he wants it to mean. All objectivity concerning the meaning of words is lost. When words lose their meaning, communication ceases. However, this is not how God has intended for language and communication to be. God communicates to us through His written word, with objective meanings to words, so that ideas and thoughts can be communicated.

The post millennial view is not the same as the amillennial view.  I believe that it is after the millennium that the dead are raised and Christ comes as judge.  This is also the only time there can be a rapture without adding to the Word.  The dead in Christ must rise first... This is when they are raised.

Concerning the coming of our Lord.  He is here already.  He promised tho be with us always.  I believe He will come as King to rule upon the earth during the millennium.  After this is the last trumpet.

[Kindle]

4 minutes ago, seeking the lost said:

I believe that it is after the millennium that the dead are raised and Christ comes as judge. 

Do you have a scripture to back that up?

5 minutes ago, seeking the lost said:

Concerning the coming of our Lord.  He is here already.  He promised tho be with us always.  

When you say he's already here,what do you mean by that?

[seeking the lost]

8 minutes ago, worthy said:

Do you have a scripture to back that up?

When you say he's already here,what do you mean by that?

1:The scripture is Revelation 20.

⁴ I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheadedbecause of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.They^[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. ⁵ (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.⁶ Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

 

The Judgment of the Dead

¹¹ Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. ¹² And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. ¹³ The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. ¹⁴ Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.¹⁵ Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

2:He is already here.  He is omnipresent and cannot be absent.  The promises to the disciples which I believe transcend to us are that He will be with them.  Do you not as Jesus to come into your life?

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, seeking the lost said:

The post millennial view is not the same as the amillennial view.  I believe that it is after the millennium that the dead are raised and Christ comes as judge.  This is also the only time there can be a rapture without adding to the Word.  The dead in Christ must rise first... This is when they are raised.

Concerning the coming of our Lord.  He is here already.  He promised tho be with us always.  I believe He will come as King to rule upon the earth during the millennium.  After this is the last trumpet.

And I reject that interpretation as well from my study I have done of the book of Revelation.

[seeking the lost]

24 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

And I reject that interpretation as well from my study I have done of the book of Revelation.

It is very easy to reject this or that interpretation but be careful of the interpretations that have to add to the Word.  Adding resurrections or raptures where it may seem to fit is way out of line and dangerous.  Be sure of this that the dead in Christ must rise first before the rapture and the end of the thousand years is the only time that can happen without adding to the Word.

[missmuffet]

Just now, seeking the lost said:

It is very easy to reject this or that interpretation but be careful of the interpretations that have to add to the Word.  Adding resurrections or raptures where it may seem to fit is way out of line and dangerous.  Be sure of this that the dead in Christ must rise first before the rapture and the end of the thousand years is the only time that can happen without adding to the Word.

That is what I was going to suggest to you. Not to add or delete to Scripture. I do not believe you are getting your view from reading scripture literally.