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Immaculate conception

gdemoss

By gdemoss
in Theology

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Marilyn C

Marilyn C

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Posted
1 hour ago, BobRyan said:

If all that we needed was "a sinless being" then any angel in heaven or as you say a supposedly-sinless Mary could have come. But Jesus need to do more than be sinless. In John 14 Jesus said "if you have seen Me - you have seen the Father" - nobody could say that but God the Son. Mary could not say it... a sinless angel from heaven incarnated as man could not have said that. Jesus revealed the Father to mankind. What is more - Jesus "is the atoning sacrifice for our sins - and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2. No being in heaven, no being from earth - could have absorbed/engulfed/sustained all the torment owed for all the sins for all mankind in all of time. God alone could do that. Jesus paid the second-death torment owed by every sinner - the exact amount owed for each person...for each sin. The payment that the Law demanded - fully met.

Well said Bob.

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OneLight
OneLight

I have to step in and inform people that this forum is a discussion forum for all to take part in.  Nobody should request that any group not be allowed to participate.  gdemoss, if you want only

OneLight
OneLight

This means that anyone who ever spent time studying the RCC beleiefs don't know what they are talking about.  This way of thinking is like saying that anyone who studies prophecies doesn't know prophe

Danger Noodle
Danger Noodle

Ah, OK. I haven't browsed all the forums and to see if there were sub-forums. I have seen that in other communities and thought it would be in practice here too. Forgive my presumption. 

Guest shiloh357

Guest shiloh357

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Shiloh,

I understand what you are saying that Jesus chose when He was to die, however we need to realise that Jesus experienced tiredness, suffering, etc which shows that His body was not perfect. Mary thus did not pass on to Jesus a perfect body as she was born in sin.

 

Marilyn.

What makes you think that feeling fatigue is an effect of the Fall?  Jesus was, in fact, perfect at all points.   Jesus was not fallen in any aspect. 

Marilyn C

Marilyn C

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Posted
16 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

What makes you think that feeling fatigue is an effect of the Fall?  Jesus was, in fact, perfect at all points.   Jesus was not fallen in any aspect. 

Hi Shiloh,

Adam needed sleep but he would not have been tired throughout the day, he would not have had damage to his body or have died.

Now what of the human, do you believe that Mary passed on? How was the Lord part of the human race?

Marilyn.

Guest shiloh357

Guest shiloh357

Posted
Posted
Just now, Marilyn C said:

Hi Shiloh,

Adam needed sleep but he would not have been tired throughout the day, he would not have had damage to his body or have died.

And how do you know that?   Jesus' death was not a result of a fallen state.  How do you know that Adam was impervious to injury?

Jesus chose the moment to give up His spirit.  Jesus death was not the result of anything men did to Him.  
 

Quote

 

Now what of the human, do you believe that Mary passed on? How was the Lord part of the human race?

Marilyn.

 

Jesus was 100% human, but Jesus did not have a fallen state, physically or spiritually. 

Marilyn C

Marilyn C

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Posted
5 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

And how do you know that?   Jesus' death was not a result of a fallen state.  How do you know that Adam was impervious to injury?

Jesus chose the moment to give up His spirit.  Jesus death was not the result of anything men did to Him.  
 

Jesus was 100% human, but Jesus did not have a fallen state, physically or spiritually. 

I didn`t say that Jesus` death was a result of a fallen state. I agree that He gave up his spirit, however his body then died.

As to Adam, well if he could have had injury then a serious one would lead to death which was not at that time.

Now you didn`t answer as regards to Mary. What part did she give the Lord or do you think that she just carried what the Holy Spirit placed there?

Marilyn.

 

Guest shiloh357

Guest shiloh357

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

I didn`t say that Jesus` death was a result of a fallen state. I agree that He gave up his spirit, however his body then died.

As to Adam, well if he could have had injury then a serious one would lead to death which was not at that time.

Now you didn`t answer as regards to Mary. What part did she give the Lord or do you think that she just carried what the Holy Spirit placed there?

Marilyn.

 

I am asking for a scriptural argument that Adam was impervious to injury.  I am not asking for an argument from silence.

SisterActs2

SisterActs2

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Posted

Hi all,

Romans 3:23 states "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,".  Jesus is the only exception; being conceived of the Holy Spirit.  Mary was an ordinary human being; born into inherent sin, just as we are.  God simply chose her to be the vessel through whom Jesus entered the world.

I believe RCC beliefs to be non-biblical.

Guest shiloh357

Guest shiloh357

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, SisterActs2 said:

Hi all,

Romans 3:23 states "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,".  Jesus is the only exception; being conceived of the Holy Spirit.  Mary was an ordinary human being; born into inherent sin, just as we are.  God simply chose her to be the vessel through whom Jesus entered the world.

I believe RCC beliefs to be non-biblical.

Right on  :thumbsup:

Marilyn C

Marilyn C

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Posted
13 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

I am asking for a scriptural argument that Adam was impervious to injury.  I am not asking for an argument from silence.

Hi Shiloh,

`And God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good.` (Gen. 1: 31)

Marilyn.

Guest shiloh357

Guest shiloh357

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Shiloh,

`And God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good.` (Gen. 1: 31)

Marilyn.

Yeah, that is not even close...

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