Inherit the Kingdom of God???

[Spock]

Greetings brethren,

My reading of God's word this morning made me pause at this passage in 1 Cor 6:

9Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men^a 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

My two questions are simply this:

1. Do you see this passage as a salvation issue - won't make it into Heaven- or do you see this as a rewards issue - won't inherit any rewards?  

2. And my follow up question is this: Paul said in verse 11, "and that is what some of you were....."  What exactly is he saying here? For example, is he saying you were once a GREEDY PERSON, but since you accepted Christ into your life, you are no longer a GREEDY PERSON, even though you still may be GREEDY?  

I will not share my thinking now for fear of tainting your thoughts. Thanks. 

Blessings, 

spock

Edited May 4, 2017 by Spock

[Willa]

Heb 13:5  Wuest (5-6) Let your manner of life be without love of money, being satisfied with your present circumstances. For He himself has said, and the statement is on record, I will not, I will not cease to sustain and uphold you. I will not, I will not, I will not let you down. So that, being of good courage, we are saying, The Lord is my helper. I will not fear. What shall man do to me?

1 Timothy 6:10 NKJV  10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 

Eph 5:3-5  Wuest   But fornication and uncleanness, every kind of it, or covetousness, let it not be even named among you, just as it is befitting to saints, and obscenity and foolish talking or ribaldry, which things have not been seemly or fitting, but rather giving of thanks, for this you know absolutely and experientially, that every whoremonger or unclean person or covetous person, who is an idolator, does not have an inheritance in the kingdom of the Christ and of God. Let no one keep on deceiving you by means of empty words, for because of these things there comes the wrath of God upon the sons of the disobedience.

Mat 6:24  ESV "No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

G3126   (Word Study) μαμμωνᾶς mammōnás μαμωνᾶς

mamōnás; gen. mammōná, masc. noun. Wealth, the personification of riches. Mammon, the comprehensive word for all kinds of possessions, earnings, and gains, a designation of material value, the god of materialism. In Luk 16:9, Luk 16:11, it denotes riches, equivalent to ploútos (G4149), wealth. In Mat 6:24 and Luk 16:13, the Lord personifies mammon, the god of materialism.

I think that the person may not have fully repented of his greed and needs to continually confess this and ask for the Lord's help in removing it; an alternative would be to fall at God's feet confessing that you can't quit and are totally lost, and cast yourself on His mercy because you don't want to serve riches but want to serve the living God.    Both rich and poor may be covetous or greedy.  Perhaps a person is less so than they once were.  Perhaps they used to steal because they so coveted.  But as long as the strong desire to acquire runs their life, it is an idol to them.  This will probably keep them out of heaven.

If they look at a thing and admire it, but then think, but I can do without it, they are probably in good shape. That is being content with such things as you have.  The key is being thankful for what you have.

Php 4:11  Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content: Php 4:12  I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.  Php 4:13  I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

[Fidei Defensor]

7 hours ago, Spock said:

Greetings brethren,

My reading of God's word this morning made me pause at this passage in 1 Cor 6:

9Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men^a 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

My two questions are simply this:

1. Do you see this passage as a salvation issue - won't make it into Heaven- or do you see this as a rewards issue - won't inherit any rewards?  

2. And my follow up question is this: Paul said in verse 11, "and that is what some of you were....."  What exactly is he saying here? For example, is he saying you were once a GREEDY PERSON, but since you accepted Christ into your life, you are no longer a GREEDY PERSON, even though you still may be GREEDY?  

I will not share my thinking now for fear of tainting your thoughts. Thanks. 

Blessings, 

spock

The context for not entering or inheriting the Kingdom of God is practicing sin, "When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures,idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, and envy; drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21), "Those who have been born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they are children of God," (1 John 3:9), "No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him," (1 John 3:6), and "And when people escape from the wickedness of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and then get tangled up and enslaved by sin again, they are worse off than before, It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit," and, "A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud." (2 Peter 2:20-22).

There is a difference between stumbling in sin (making a mistake, choosing to sin and being contrite and repentant) and practicing sin (getting good at, getting better and better at it, mastering, become a coinsure, like "practicing" tennis or a martial art). For the Apostle says of stumbling in sin, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness," (1 John 1:9), "Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective," (James 5:16), "Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent," (Revelation 3:19), and "for though the righteous fall seven times, they rise again, but the wicked stumble when calamity strikes," (Proverbs 24:16) and we are "This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile." (Romans 3:22).

The passage you shared Spock cross references with the Galatians verses I shared. There is a difference between stumbling in sin, and practicing sin (presumptuous, presuming on Blood of Christ and justifying your mistakes and saying they are ok like the Church of Rome was doing by continuing to do orgies, and other abominations and saying grace abounds all the more see Romans 6:15-18). The Apostle Paul is warning in his epistles those who think it is ok to be Nicolaitans (Revelation 2:6, Revelation 3:16) who serves God and the devil, who trusts the savior but delights in sin, who profess the Word but love the World (Matthew 6:24, 1 John 2:15-17 NLT, James 4:4). The Apostle Paul and Jesus Christ in Revelation (verses I've shared) are confronting a hypocrite, someone who is Christian but practices sin and even magic (Revelation 21:7). Jesus hated the hypocrites, he spends an entire chapter (Matthew 23) confronting them, using strong language, "What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either," (Matthew 22:13), "What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell^[f] you yourselves are!," (Matthew 22:14), "What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens,^[g] but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things. ²⁴ Blind guides! You strain your water so you won’t accidentally swallow a gnat, but you swallow a camel!," (Matthew 24:23-24), "What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are so careful to clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you are filthy—full of greed and self-indulgence! ²⁶ You blind Pharisee! First wash the inside of the cup and the dish,^[i] and then the outside will become clean, too. What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs—beautiful on the outside but filled on the inside with dead people’s bones and all sorts of impurity. ²⁸ Outwardly you look like righteous people, but inwardly your hearts are filled with hypocrisy and lawlessness." (Matthew 23:25-28).

It is evident that the Apostles and our Lord and God Jesus Christ is addressing a very bad spiritual state known as the hypocrites, that is to be hypocrite, one who professing the Lord, but living contrary to Him and even serves the fallen one, the prince of this world who invented commerce (Ezekiel 28:14-18) and who seeks to enslave and destroy all mankind. The issue isn't that you stumbled in sin, it is if you decide to practice sin and yet pretend to be righteous and pious, "They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. Stay away from people like that!" (2 Timothy 3:5). Because the Pharisees and religious leaders missed God in flesh (John 1:15) and out of their jealousy they killed Him (Matthew 27:18, Mark 15:10).

 

Edited May 4, 2017 by Fidei Defensor

[Spock]

2 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

The context for not entering or inheriting the Kingdom of God is practicing sin, "When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures,idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, and envy; drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21), "Those who have been born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they are children of God," (1 John 3:9), "No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him," (1 John 3:6), and "And when people escape from the wickedness of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and then get tangled up and enslaved by sin again, they are worse off than before, It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit," and, "A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud." (2 Peter 2:20-22).

There is a difference between stumbling in sin (making a mistake, choosing to sin and being contrite and repentant) and practicing sin (getting good at, mastering, become a coinsure, like Stop correcting "practicing" tennis or a martial art). For the Apostle says of stumbling in sin, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness," (1 John 1:9), "Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective," (James 5:16), "Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent," (Revelation 3:19), and "for though the righteous fall seven times, they rise again, but the wicked stumble when calamity strikes," (Proverbs 24:16) and we are "This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile." (Romans 3:22).

 

 

Wow Fidei, you really gave me a lot to chew on.  Thanks a bunch for this. 

So, it seems you are interpreting the expression "inherit the kingdom of God" to be a SALVATION issue, not really a reward issue.  And the test is simply: are you practicing sin (not stumbling into it )? 

So, a practicing homosexual clearly is not saved according to this definition, but what about the guy who cheats on his tax return every year?  Is he practicing sin by doing this every year, even though just one time a year?  I don't really see that as one of the lists Paul gives in the Galatians passage you quoted, but could you consider this as being GREEDY because you want to pay less taxes in order that you can have more money?  

In addition, is a single person being SEXUALLY IMMORAL  if he is enjoying his girlfriend of 3 years sexually while not being married?  Does this disqualify him or her from the kingdom because sex is a sin apart from marriage. (I think this one is huge with our young college aged kids, don't you?) 

i look forward to any responses (Fidei or anyone else) Thanks.

spock

 

[Fidei Defensor]

21 minutes ago, Spock said:

Wow Fidei, you really gave me a lot to chew on.  Thanks a bunch for this. 

So, it seems you are interpreting the expression "inherit the kingdom of God" to be a SALVATION issue, not really a reward issue.  And the test is simply: are you practicing sin (not stumbling into it )? 

So, a practicing homosexual clearly is not saved according to this definition, but what about the guy who cheats on his tax return every year?  Is he practicing sin by doing this every year, even though just one time a year?  I don't really see that as one of the lists Paul gives in the Galatians passage you quoted, but could you consider this as being GREEDY because you want to pay less taxes in order that you can have more money?  

In addition, is a single person being SEXUALLY IMMORAL  if he is enjoying his girlfriend of 3 years sexually while not being married?  Does this disqualify him or her from the kingdom because sex is a sin apart from marriage. (I think this one is huge with our young college aged kids, don't you?) 

i look forward to any responses (Fidei or anyone else) Thanks.

spock

 

Actually I think this is about sinners who want fire insurance, but they don't want to know God really like Pharisees and want to keep sinning and even want God to bless it (see Matthew 23 whole chapter). This includes Nicoletians who serve God and Satan, I've met one, they got revelations from God and did witchcraft. Such a person Jesus says he hates because they are divided inside, they can't resolve to be hot or cold. 

What is going on is that those who won't inherit heaven as you laid out aren't  even committed to Christ and heaven, they, they are the double minded  person or they have become hypocrite and Pharisee who likes being religious bit doesn't want to know God or enter his  kingdom, ""What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either," (Matthew 22:13),

The whole point of Paul's list of don't do this is to know Christ better. You'll know Jesus if you don't gossip or follow idols and other gods. Just as Ten Commandments  arn't laws but marriage vows and instructions on how to love God and know him better. Ans you cant know someone if you don't respect them and love them: Paul's list, Matthew 22:36-41, and ten commandments show you how to respect God and others so you can love them and know them.

"21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22 Many will say to me on that day,‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you lawless ones!" (Matthew 7:21-23). Interesting Jesus says lawless ones because lawlessness comes from coming antichrist and Satan (2 Thessalonians 2:1-15).

 

Edited May 4, 2017 by Fidei Defensor

[Spock]

50 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Actually I think this is about sinners who want fire insurance, but they don't want to know God really like Pharisees and want to keep sinning and even want God to bless it (see Matthew 23 whole chapter). This includes Nicoletians who serve God and Satan, I've met one, they got revelations from God and did witchcraft. Such a person Jesus says he hates because they are divided inside, they can't resolve to be hot or cold. 

What is going on is that those who won't inherit heaven as you laid out aren't  even committed to Christ and heaven, they, they are the double minded  person or they have become hypocrite and Pharisee who likes being religious bit doesn't want to know God or enter his  kingdom, ""What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either," (Matthew 22:13),

The whole point of Paul's list of don't do this is to know Christ better. You'll know Jesus if you don't gossip or follow idols and other gods. Just as Ten Commandments  arn't laws but marriage vows and instructions on how to love God and know him better. Ans you cant know someone if you don't respect them and love them: Paul's list, Matthew 22:36-41, and ten commandments show you how to respect God and others so you can love them and know them.

"21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22 Many will say to me on that day,‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you lawless ones!" (Matthew 7:21-23). Interesting Jesus says lawless ones because lawlessness comes from coming antichrist and Satan (2 Thessalonians 2:1-15).

 

Don't you think we all "practice sin" everyday?  Honestly, I don't think a day goes by without me committing some sin. Maybe not violating the 10 commandments, but not loving my neighbor as I love myself. 

For example, my in laws moved in at age 91 and are still here at age 95.  They drive me crazy being so demanding, uncompromising, complaining Spirit, and more.  I know I'm sinning in some way, mostly in my thoughts. 

So, this practicing sin standard, does it apply to certain BIG sins, or just plain old sin? 

Btw, You usually don't answer my specific questions so you force me to infer your answer based on your response. For example, am I to assume you believe the dude who cheats on his tax return yearly is practicing sin and thus will not inherit.....the same as the single college kid who says he loves Jesus but he also loves sex with his single hot girlfriend? 

Help me out here Fidei.  Thanks.

spock

[Happinessity]

9 hours ago, Spock said:

Greetings brethren,

My reading of God's word this morning made me pause at this passage in 1 Cor 6:

9Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men^a 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

My two questions are simply this:

1. Do you see this passage as a salvation issue - won't make it into Heaven- or do you see this as a rewards issue - won't inherit any rewards?  

2. And my follow up question is this: Paul said in verse 11, "and that is what some of you were....."  What exactly is he saying here? For example, is he saying you were once a GREEDY PERSON, but since you accepted Christ into your life, you are no longer a GREEDY PERSON, even though you still may be GREEDY?  

I will not share my thinking now for fear of tainting your thoughts. Thanks. 

Blessings, 

spock

I read it as his saying what amounts to what we already know. Sinners won't enter , inherit, the kingdom of God. 

"and that is what some of you were..." , refers to what all Christians at one time were. The sinner, the unredeemed. 

[Spock]

48 minutes ago, Happinessity said:

I read it as his saying what amounts to what we already know. Sinners won't enter , inherit, the kingdom of God. 

"and that is what some of you were..." , refers to what all Christians at one time were. The sinner, the unredeemed. 

Just to be clear friend, and thanks for replying, are you saying this: (using a chronological timeline)

1. Sinner, doesn't know Christ, sins ever present

2. Sins washed away, no longer a "sinner"  you have been redeemed.

3. No matter how often you sin or whatever kind of sin you commit, makes no difference, Christ's blood keeps you from being a "sinner" ever again

4. You inherit the kingdom (heaven and beyond) because you are no longer a "sinner" but have been redeemed by the blood.

thanks,

spock

Edited May 5, 2017 by Spock

[Happinessity]

4 minutes ago, Spock said:

Just to be clear friend, and thanks for replying, are you saying this: (using a chronological timeline)

1. Sinner, doesn't know Christ, sins ever present

2. Sins washed away, no longer a "sinner"  you have been redeemed.

3. No matter how often you sin or whatever kind of sin you commit, makes no difference, Christ's blood keeps you from being a "sinner" ever again

4. You inherit the kingdom (heaven and beyond) because you are no longer a "sinner" but have been redeemed by the blood.

thanks,

spock

That about sums it up, yes. 

[Spock]

11 minutes ago, Happinessity said:

That about sums it up, yes. 

Thanks. Have a blessed evening. 

Spock