Timing of the seals question

[missmuffet]

7 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

All the Prophecies in Revelation, past Chapter Three , are future events. The writer uses Old Testament prose/verbiage to encode the book of Revelation. For instance the Rev. 12 prophecy has nothing to do with Israel giving birth to Jesus whom Satan the Dragon tried to Kill. The chapter is about these future events: Satan is cast out of Heaven at the Mid-way point in the Final week (Israel FLEES for 1260 Days that's how we knows its the Midway point) then of course Israel Flees to the Wilderness, Satan can't get after her so he goes after the SMALL PART of the Church that is on Earth (Remnant). 

Its not about Jesus' birth, why would Jesus via John prophecy about an event that has already passed? He wouldn't, but he only used that scene to encode the rest of Rev. 12. Its still all about the Future, the prophecy can't be about past events. And since Rev is about the Last Week, it can even be about events 100 years ago. 

That is why I warn people about the Revelation "SIGN" where they are looking at Virgo, Jupiter and Venus....Its Astrology, and God warns us time and again about Divination, it is EVIL. 

 

Yes. Before Chapter 3 they really are not prophecies.

[wingnut-]

5 hours ago, Spock said:

I'm pretty sure muffet is trying to reason this out knowing that the woman represenets "Israel" and that this is right out of the book of Genesis regarding Joseph, the kid with the multi colored coat. And that clearly some part of Rev is history and not end times stuff. 

I think Muffet put herself in a corner when she said the Book of Rev is ONLY about Future events. I don't think one has to put,themself in that corner. Those who are not preterists know the book of Rev is describing future events, like the period known as the Great Trib.  I dont believe it is necessary in order to support ones agenda that you have to have 100% of Rev in the future. Nothing is gained by saying that imo. 

 

Did you get a chance to read my post to you earlier?

[Spock]

1 minute ago, wingnut- said:

 

Did you get a chance to read my post to you earlier?

Probably missed it. Crazy day today. Golf course, Spanish lessons, getting ready for trip. I've been in and out for brief spurts. I will try to find it. 

[wingnut-]

Just now, Spock said:

Probably missed it. Crazy day today. Golf course, Spanish lessons, getting ready for trip. I've been in and out for brief spurts. I will try to find it. 

Ok, it's what led to the other discussion, so maybe last page.  Let me know if that makes more sense as far as the 1st rider.

[Spock]

13 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

Hey brother,

Something else occurred to me last night that may help clarify what I am saying and why I say there really is no doubt as to who the 1st rider is.  There is a consistency with symbolism in the bible.  Take this one example for instance, Jesus, referred to as the Lamb of God.  So anywhere you read in the bible a reference to the Lamb of God, the Lamb who was slain, blood of the Lamb, wrath of the Lamb, etc.  When you see that mentioned, including all the way back to the OT where sacrifices were being made, you know that the symbolism is pointing you to Jesus and the sacrifice He made.  No question about it, right?

The rider on the white horse is the exact same thing, when a symbol is given, it always means the same thing no matter where you find it in scripture.  In the case of the rider on the white horse, John references the symbol within the same book.  Also, there is more symbolism incorporated with this rider, the color white, consistently representative of purity.  Throughout the bible it is a color often associated with angels, and it also is used to describe the great multitude in heaven as well.

 

Revelation 7:9  9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

 

Revelation 7:13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

It is also attributed to the 24 elders in heaven...

 

Revelation 4:4  Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads.

 

It is also said of Jesus at the beginning of Revelation...

 

Revelation 1:14  His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire;

 

In the OT we find some more examples here....

 

Isaiah 1:18  “Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the Lord, “Though your sins are like scarlet, They shall be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They shall be as wool.

 

Daniel 7:9   “I watched till thrones were put in place, And the Ancient of Days was seated; His garment was white as snow, And the hair of His head was like pure wool. His throne was a fiery flame, Its wheels a burning fire;

 

And in the NT.....

 

Matthew 28:3  His countenance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow.

 

Mark 9:3  His clothes became shining, exceedingly white, like snow, such as no launderer on earth can whiten them.

 

The point is, white is symbolic of purity.  The majority of these references are to Jesus Himself, and the others are to those who are made white by the blood of the Lamb.  White always points you to Jesus or to His blood, which is why as I said before, there really is no debate as to whom the 1st rider is as long as you take all of scripture into account and apply the symbolism you have been given.  Symbols do not change their meaning, and we do not serve a God of confusion, the simplest answer is the correct answer, and the answers are always found in scripture.

God bless

I think you must mean this one.  Yeah, I missed it. You are convinced WHITE=Good=Jesus. 

Sorry brother, but I'm not feeling this. You might be right, but my gut, a very reliable source for me, is telling me not to go there. 

But im impressed with your research and passion. But My gut.........

[wingnut-]

3 minutes ago, Spock said:

I think you must mean this one.  Yeah, I missed it. You are convinced WHITE=Good=Jesus. 

Sorry brother, but I'm not feeling this. You might be right, but my gut, a very reliable source for me, is telling me not to go there. 

But im impressed with your research and passion. But My gut.........

 

No problem my friend, just wanted to make sure you had seen it since it deals with the topic lol

God bless

[Dennis1209]

On 5/6/2017 at 1:05 PM, Spock said:

Fellow prophecy buffs,

One simple question for you- "is it possible" the seven seals of Rev 6 could COMMENCE in the second half of Daniels 70th week, after the abomination of desolation?  In other words, the seals, trumpets and bowls will all be opened during the GREAT TRIBULATION ONLY (3.5 years = 42 months= 1260 days) 

Here is the 2nd seal in Rev 6:

3When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!” 4Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword.

Notice, the rider was given power to TAKE PEACE from the Earth and to kill.

Many prophecy buffs admit that right after the signing of the peace treaty pursuant to Daniel 9:24, there will be peace on Earth which will even allow for Israel to rebuild its temple.  I assume this will be the temple the AC will do his abomination thingy in. So, is it possible right after the abomination peace will be then be taken away? Enter seal 1.

If not, why not?  Thanks.

oh, if you know of anyone who has written articles or books supporting this line of reasoning, would you mind sharing their name or book title with me. Thanks.

Spock

Assuming you subscribe to the official start of the tribulation is when the Antichrist signs / affirms a peace covenant with Israel for seven years. A scriptural case can be made that some of the seal judgments may occur prior to the reveling of the Antichrist and the tribulation. I won't go into detail, but things should start rocking and rolling a minimum of 3-1/2 years prior to the start of the tribulation. 

Quick example: If your hermeneutics are similar to mine, from the Ezekiel 38-39 war (Gog - Magog war), Israel burns the invaders weapons for fuel for seven years. Israel flees for its life at mid-tribulation when the Antichrist declares himself to be god, and all Israel is being slaughtered. This means the Gog - Magog invasion has to happen a minimum of 3-1/2 years prior to the signing of the seven year peace agreement. 

Pretty lengthy to explain as to why I believe some of the seal judgments could occur prior to the tribulation, but if anyone is interested...