Revelation Man Posted May 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,066 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 551 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 16, 2017 39 minutes ago, wingnut- said: John 14:25 “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you." There it is again. I have posted it numerous times, and I have asked you to explain to me what it means to you. You won't do it. You accuse me of pride when I admitted to error and conceded your point as to where the first question the disciples asked took place. Does that strike you as one too proud to admit error? Or is the truth that the one who dodges easy questions to cling to an obvious error in their entire argument has the issue with pride? The gathering is found in the gospel of Matthew, chapter 24. The entire premise of the left behind theology is found there as well, and you yourself have repeatedly stated that it is indeed what you call the rapture. Matthew 24:31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. And again, since your entire argument is based on what Matthew knew or did not know, completely denies the God-breathed words that were written and tries to paint this biblical truth as though Matthew were the author. Pay particularly close attention to verse 42, "what hour your Lord is coming." It is right there, hand in hand with the very event you agree is the rapture. I offer you scripture, you reject it, all you offer in your posts is your opinion and insults. It is a common tactic used when one cannot support their opinion with scripture, attack the other guy and try to discredit them. If this is true, then it wouldn't be so difficult for you to answer simple questions. And if it were true, then you could actually support what you are saying with scripture. Here is one for you, how about you show me one time in scripture where the gathering/ catching away is spoken of and does not include His coming. I am not the one who won't answer simple questions. I am not the one who doesn't support what they are saying with scripture and doesn't acknowledge the scripture presented in return. I am not the one who rejects biblical truths to build a comfortable theory around. If you think all the eyes that read over this thread don't know when someone is dodging a simple question, you are mistaken. Most probably agree with your position, but not your argument. Did you notice how when I asked Marilyn the same questions she answered them? Straight up direct answers, not some two paragraph diatribe that requires an interpreter. And to put it bluntly, I am not seeking the approval of people anyway. God bless Maybe you are one who can't understand simple answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted May 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, Revelation Man said: Maybe you are one who can't understand simple answers. I understood Marilyn's answers just fine, maybe you should compare yours to hers for clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted May 16, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 16, 2017 "The gathering is found in the gospel of Matthew, chapter 24. The entire premise of the left behind theology is found there as well, and you yourself have repeatedly stated that it is indeed what you call the rapture" There is no rapture in Matthew 24 .... this idea is bogus The Lord is speaking to Israel alone in this discourse and the nation's 70th week experience Some of Israel will be saved during the coming tribulation, but those before will be made immortal as stated for example in [1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-58] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted May 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said: "The gathering is found in the gospel of Matthew, chapter 24. The entire premise of the left behind theology is found there as well, and you yourself have repeatedly stated that it is indeed what you call the rapture" There is no rapture in Matthew 24 .... this idea is bogus The Lord is speaking to Israel alone in this discourse and the nation's 70th week experience Some of Israel will be saved during the coming tribulation, but those before will be made immortal as stated for example in [1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-58] Matthew 24:40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. What do you call that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted May 16, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 16, 2017 (edited) The scriptures you give have a very different meaning than you suggest This is about Israel in the coming tribulation period .... most taken to judgment, the others left to enter the Lord's coming millennial kingdom upon the earth just after the tribulation period as mortals Matthew 24 and Luke 21 are all about Israel in the coming tribulation period Edited May 16, 2017 by Daniel 11:36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted May 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said: The scriptures you give have a very different meaning than you suggest This is about Israel in the coming tribulation period .... most taken to judgment, the others left to enter the Lord's coming millennial kingdom upon the earth just after the tribulation period as mortals Matthew 24 and Luke 21 are all about Israel in the coming tribulation period Right, because according to you these gospels are meant for a group that rejects them. Funny how you can't answer a simple question either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted May 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 16, 2017 28 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said: "The gathering is found in the gospel of Matthew, chapter 24. The entire premise of the left behind theology is found there as well, and you yourself have repeatedly stated that it is indeed what you call the rapture" There is no rapture in Matthew 24 .... this idea is bogus The Lord is speaking to Israel alone in this discourse and the nation's 70th week experience Some of Israel will be saved during the coming tribulation, but those before will be made immortal as stated for example in [1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-58] I Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. I'm not sure how that passage reads to you, but what it says is that Christ is the firstfruits, and afterward, those who are His at HIS COMING. His coming being the key thing, and the fact that there is no event in between. I Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. This says we will ALL be changed at the last trumpet, that would be the 7th trumpet in Revelation, the last one mentioned in the book that breaks down the end time events specifically. Of course if we use your logic, unless you are from Corinth that has nothing to do with you, because Paul wrote this letter to people in Corinth, so it only applies to them, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted May 16, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 16, 2017 "This says we will ALL be changed at the last trumpet, that would be the 7th trumpet in Revelation, the last one mentioned in the book that breaks down the end time events specifically." At the last trumpet for the immortals of the past and present .... not the 7th Revelation trumpet which is a trumpet of judgment There are two trumpets that concern the dead and the living believers .... the trumpet sounding of Revelation 1:10 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16 These two trumpets are different from the 7 judgment trumpets of Revelation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted May 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said: "This says we will ALL be changed at the last trumpet, that would be the 7th trumpet in Revelation, the last one mentioned in the book that breaks down the end time events specifically." At the last trumpet for the immortals of the past and present .... not the 7th Revelation trumpet which is a trumpet of judgment There are two trumpets that concern the dead and the living believers .... the trumpet sounding of Revelation 1:10 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16 These two trumpets are different from the 7 judgment trumpets of Revelation Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, Not a trumpet, a voice like a trumpet. And again applying your logic, this was written by John, so it is only for Israel, nothing in Revelation applies to you unless you're Jewish. I Thessalonians 4:13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. Again, He will bring with Him. A reference to Him coming, not us going anywhere. And again, applying your logic, unless you are from Thessaly this has nothing to do with you, it was written for the church in Thessaly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted May 16, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 16, 2017 Much is revealed in the NT about the immortality of those who follow the Lord to various groupings, but it is all the same .... He will first immortalize His own and then He will bring His tribulation and wrath upon an unbelieving world And even some will repent during the tribulation and will be saved .... you should know this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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