Jump to content
IGNORED

Question about the Canon being Closed


Guest Judas Machabeus

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Royal Member *
  • Followers:  8
  • Topic Count:  91
  • Topics Per Day:  0.03
  • Content Count:  10,596
  • Content Per Day:  3.73
  • Reputation:   2,743
  • Days Won:  25
  • Joined:  06/16/2016
  • Status:  Offline

13 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

 

Circular reasoning cannot come from God to explain God for He 'IS' the only One Who can! In all other topics perhaps to use source for proof of source... but the fooliness to take God's Word and say it cannot be used to prove God's Word is a fools journey of false reasoning...  There are no witness of God before creation but God... and the circular reasoning logic is out the window by God in the reality of God....

Psalms 46:10 (KJV)

[10] Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

or to put it more succinctly Here 'IS' God's circular reasoning

Exodus 3:14 (KJV)

[14] And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

His (God's Word) was enough then for His People and in the end after the subject matter of the Revelation going into the eternal state God sealed His Word... closed canon by God and the account now rests with those who oppose Him in His Word...

                     Open canon people anything inserted into the present is addition to God's Word  by the very subject matter of the Revelation given us by
                     God through John. You may say what subject matter

Revelation 1:19 (KJV)

[19] Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

That would be-> thou hast seen= The Gospel of The Christ's Life (John was sensually satisfied with Jesus being Creator), things which are= the present which was John's Present; things shall be hereafter= as the book subject matter goes into the eternal state... then the seal of the book sealing the subject matter of the book! Now in this-> insert into and there is no way you cannot be guilty of adding to the canon of God's Word (!) 
Love, Steven

Just call me a fool then, because I do not think that God's word proves God's word.  I believe there is an element of faith involved, and once you have proof there is no longer need for faith.   

So, for me I have faith that the Bible is God's word and that God has kept His word and preserved His word for us in the cannon.   I cannot prove it to anyone, I cannot even "prove" it to myself.  So, I will not try.  I will leave that to those so desperate for proof. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  35
  • Topic Count:  99
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  40,796
  • Content Per Day:  7.95
  • Reputation:   21,264
  • Days Won:  76
  • Joined:  03/13/2010
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  07/27/1957

3 minutes ago, Running Gator said:

Just call me a fool then, because I do not think that God's word proves God's word.  I believe there is an element of faith involved, and once you have proof there is no longer need for faith.   

So, for me I have faith that the Bible is God's word and that God has kept His word and preserved His word for us in the cannon.   I cannot prove it to anyone, I cannot even "prove" it to myself.  So, I will not try.  I will leave that to those so desperate for proof. 

Okay :happyhappy: ... anyone else would like to refute the hermeneutical presentation of God's closed canon?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member *
  • Followers:  8
  • Topic Count:  91
  • Topics Per Day:  0.03
  • Content Count:  10,596
  • Content Per Day:  3.73
  • Reputation:   2,743
  • Days Won:  25
  • Joined:  06/16/2016
  • Status:  Offline

Just now, enoob57 said:

Okay :happyhappy: 

It won't be the first time and it won't be the last I am sure.  I am ok with it.

Can you explain why proof is so important?   Why faith alone is not enough?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  35
  • Topic Count:  99
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  40,796
  • Content Per Day:  7.95
  • Reputation:   21,264
  • Days Won:  76
  • Joined:  03/13/2010
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  07/27/1957

On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 7:43 PM, Running Gator said:

It won't be the first time and it won't be the last I am sure.  I am ok with it.

Can you explain why proof is so important?   Why faith alone is not enough?

It is clear you have not understood what I have written so I will try to reiterate the purpose of write:
God's Word is the generater of 'The Faith' in this place...  when one accepts God's Word as The Substance of things hope for yet not evidenced by sensual perceptions (other than that which is written) it becomes a pure and undefiled religion and one gives everything that is sensually perceived now in sacrificial ways for that which is promised by Word alone....
My address was to the hermeneutical process of why God's Word is closed as to 'by God'... so  I really am at a loss on where your coming from in your comments :noidea: 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  39
  • Topic Count:  101
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  7,673
  • Content Per Day:  1.32
  • Reputation:   7,358
  • Days Won:  67
  • Joined:  04/22/2008
  • Status:  Offline

3 hours ago, Davida said:

For me the experience is it seems like the scripture has a depth that keeps getting deeper and when I read it then something more is revealed that I had not noticed previously. Is that what happens to you?  I've imagined that we cannot fathom the depth & weight of the Words that make up the scripture.

 

Yes, that is exactly what happens to me all the time.  Just the other day I was reading the creation account for the thousandth time and saw something I had never noticed before.  It never ceases to amaze me how things suddenly open up and increase understanding.  What an awesome God we serve. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  39
  • Topic Count:  101
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  7,673
  • Content Per Day:  1.32
  • Reputation:   7,358
  • Days Won:  67
  • Joined:  04/22/2008
  • Status:  Offline

4 hours ago, Running Gator said:

I am not disagreeing with you, it is not blind faith, I do not believe my faith in God to preserve His word is based on blindness.  

  

 

:thumbsup: Amen brother.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  711
  • Content Per Day:  0.28
  • Reputation:   266
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  04/12/2017
  • Status:  Offline

On 5/18/2017 at 11:56 AM, Judas Machabeus said:

I'm reading Steve Rays book crossing the Tiber. So to help me understand the Protestant point of view I may end up with lots of questions. 

I believe everyone here agrees that the canon of scripture is closed meaning no more books can be added to the bible. 

Heres my question:

where does that teaching come from and is it biblical?

When you use the term "Protestant" it leads me to suppose that you may be Catholic.

IF that is true - then you also know that both Protestants and Catholics claim there are 27 books in the NT and that it is a close canon - right?

In fact the only difference between the two groups is not over the NT -  but rather over the Jewish Bible, the Hebrew Bible... .the OT. 

Both Catholic clergy and Protestant clergy would object to having someone come along and add another letter to the NT canon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Judas Machabeus
2 hours ago, BobRyan said:

When you use the term "Protestant" it leads me to suppose that you may be Catholic.

IF that is true - then you also know that both Protestants and Catholics claim there are 27 books in the NT and that it is a close canon - right?

In fact the only difference between the two groups is not over the NT -  but rather over the Jewish Bible, the Hebrew Bible... .the OT. 

Both Catholic clergy and Protestant clergy would object to having someone come along and add another letter to the NT canon.

The debate over WHAT the canon is, is for another thread. 

But as you can see from the beginning of the thread (it's a bit derailed now) we have had various answers regarding how it is determined to be closed. 

I am not Protestant, I was raised by a Catholic father and a Lutheran mother. I myself am an orthodox Catholic of the Latin rite. 

In my OP I do say that I assume we all agree the canon is closed. Both sides agree on that point, BUT my question was/is

where does that teaching come from?

How do we know it's closed. Scripture doesn't gives us the canon, nor does it give us the criteria for which books belong, nor does it tell us the canon is closed. 

A few people have mentioned the Coucil of Chalcedon in 397AD (I might have the wrong city cited). This is the what I believe as well. But I was curious as to what others thought. 

We've had scriputre quoted, moved by the Holy Spirit and another that slips my mind. God closed the canon therefore it's closed, that's a paraphrase. 

So if I may ask, where does the teaching that the canon is closed come from?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  711
  • Content Per Day:  0.28
  • Reputation:   266
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  04/12/2017
  • Status:  Offline

6 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

The debate over WHAT the canon is, is for another thread. 

But as you can see from the beginning of the thread (it's a bit derailed now) we have had various answers regarding how it is determined to be closed. 

I am not Protestant, I was raised by a Catholic father and a Lutheran mother. I myself am an orthodox Catholic of the Latin rite. 

In my OP I do say that I assume we all agree the canon is closed. Both sides agree on that point, BUT my question was/is

where does that teaching come from?

How do we know it's closed. Scripture doesn't gives us the canon, nor does it give us the criteria for which books belong, nor does it tell us the canon is closed. 

A few people have mentioned the Coucil of Chalcedon in 397AD (I might have the wrong city cited). This is the what I believe as well. But I was curious as to what others thought. 

We've had scriputre quoted, moved by the Holy Spirit and another that slips my mind. God closed the canon therefore it's closed, that's a paraphrase. 

So if I may ask, where does the teaching that the canon is closed come from?

As Josephus points out - the Jews already had the concept of a closed canon 300 years before the time of Christ. Not one book added not one letter added in over 400 years - a closed canon, kept in the Temple in Jerusalem according to that Jewish historian. So this notion of a "closed canon" preceded the Jews that became Christians in the NT. 

Edited by BobRyan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Judas Machabeus

But we're not Jewish and we did add to the canon. If the canon was truely closed by the Jews as you laid out than how do we have a New Testament? A closed canon means no new books. So clearly as Christian we do not accept the closed Jewish canon otherwise we could not have added the New Testament. 

We don't have two separate bibles. We don't have a Jewish bible and a separate Christian bible. 

Also the Jewish canon wasn't closed at the time of Jesus, 80% of the OT quotes found in the NT come from the sepruigent. So that means there were 2 canons being used by NT writers. 

I don't want to go too far down the Jewish canon rabbit hole so I'll finish with this, and it just my own personal opinion. 

If the NT writers quoted the septuigent as scripture and they were being guided by the Holy Spirit than the septuigent must be scripture. Otherwise the over whelming majority of quotes of not all, would have came from the Hebrew canon and not the septuigent. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...