What is a Christ? How many are there?

[Retrobyter]

37 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Yes you may be referring to the same title in various cases, but the meaning of Messiah as 'thee Messiah' is different in it's eschatological sense. There is only One to come ...He first found his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which means Christ). (Joh 1:41)

Anything else is just word games.

Shalom, Yowm.

Nope. It's not just semantics. You're talking about the ULTIMATE Messiah to be King, and that's fine, but you're conveniently forgetting that the term STICKS to the other "holy ones" to whom it was applied, as well! They are not just "in the past" and forgotten! As Yeshua` said to the Ts'duqiym (Sadduccees), "God is not the God of the dead but of the living!" (Matt. 22:32; Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38.) They, too, will be RESURRECTED (and at the same time as we who are "holy ones," btw)! And, therefore, they will NEVER cease to be God's messiahs, anymore than Saul ceased to be God's messiah when David was selected by God to replace him!

See, the term itself is NOT restricted to Yeshua`; to the contrary, it is applied in MANY different situations and for different purposes, because GOD selects people for various situations and purposes! GOD has only selected Yeshua` to be the ultimate King of the Jews and of Israel, and He is the Priest forever after the order of Malkhiy-Tsedeq, but GOD doesn't stop selecting people to do His bidding!

In Greek, "christos" comes from "chrioo" (again, the "oo" being an omega, and an "o" being an omicron):

NT:5547 Christos (khris-tos'); from NT:5548; anointed, i.e. the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus:
KJV - Christ.

NT:5548 chrioo (khree'-o); probably akin to NT:5530 through the idea of contact; to smear or rub with oil, i.e. (by implication) to consecrate to an office or religious service:
KJV - anoint.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

"Chrioo" is the verb form that is the basis for the noun "christos."

And, Paul said to the believers in Korinth:

2 Corinthians 1:19-22
19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest (down payment) of the Spirit in our hearts.
KJV

[Anonymous Aristotle]

10 hours ago, Yowm said:

 

I thought this was a probe on our view (see OP), not a correction course according to your view.

Ineed to have that clarified as well before I contribute so as to be in compliance with what is expected. I agree with you that is what I read in the first post . " This is more of a probe into how people feel about the word "Christ." What does the word mean to you? How many "Christs" were/are there?" 

[Your closest friendnt]

13 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, "Your closest friendnt."

I saved an answer to your post last of all, because it is so complicated. But, actually, Yeshua` being the Christ of God or the Messiah of God is a WHOLE lot less complicated than you make it out to be.

You're right that "There are different kinds of anointing, and for different kinds of specific situations and specific needs"; however, they are all anointed BY God and FOR HIM! The complexity in the different reasons for human beings being anointed is simplified in the fact that they ALL are chosen by the ONE God YHWH, regardless how He would use them!

Now, are you aware of the contradiction you just made? You said,

Then you immediately follow this with,

There's no need for another "anointed" after Yeshua`, but we are all "anointed" anyway?!

Do you see how this is a contradiction? The problem is found in how we choose to define the term "messiah/christ/anointed-person" in one scenario and then try to define it a different way in another!

Then, you fractured the term even more through other terms: Savior, Redeemer, Judge, Key-Owner. I admit that Yeshua` fills all those roles; HOWEVER, they DETRACT from this dialogue! They are a DISTRACTION in this discussion on "messiah/christ/anointed-person."

The rest of this argument is fractured as well in the sense that you've resorted to allegory. You've USED the term "The CHRIST," but you're barely talking about what that means. Instead, you've resorted through "LIFE" and "no Death" to tie together thoughts from the Scriptures that were not put together nor were intended to be put together for a RELIGIOUS-SOUNDING argument! You've put together "In him was life" (from John 1), "as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men" (from Rom. 5), "the seed of the woman" (from Gen. 3), and the "dove" (from Gen. 8 and Matt. 3/Mark 1/Luke 3/John 1). (What did you do, look up the word "dove" in a concordance and tie the verses together that way?)

Sorry, but NONE of this has to do with the term "messiah/christ/anointed-person!"

Shalom Retrobyter, I want to thank you, for many things, first for all the hard work you put in starting this post, definitely it is interesting to see how you have frace it, and you did well to invite the readers to look into your reasons why you have frace it in this way, there is a lot to learn, and a lot to discover, even though you may expect that most of us we will imidiatly rush to defend that there is only one CHRIST and that is JESUS. 

Your thoughts are bewtiful the way you are kind of sounding controversial, but we have fail to see what you are trying to show the reader. 

Next thank you for reading our post thoroughly, and taking the time to reply and address it's one separately. 

Instant of going back and reason my self out of some not all your comments, I will take another try at it, without a righteous indignation this time, which was some how diminishing to you, guessing things which you never said, kind of been proactive defending something. 

The word "christ", in your post, does not make reference to a very specific person, but to anyone who was anointed by God, in the times before Jesus, and before Abraham and after till the time of JESUS. 

And continuously after that without an and to our time and after our time. 

There is a misunderstanding that can create confusion, and you did not distinguish the deferences with clarity, you have aproche this issue as if there is not a profound distinction amongst the anointed. 

To use the word anointed in times before Jesus Christ and after that to our time it is and it is not quite presize, even though many people can not tell the difference, when they can not tell the difference when the use the word God. 

To use the word "Christos" or " Christ" for the anonting of those in times before JESUS CHRIST, it is not correct, (and it could be within the specific frame of context), 

That time the people them selves did not use this word. This word it is a later word, and it was not part of their vocabulary. And if it was in the Greek, it was never used for the propose you are using it in this discussion. 

This word can not be found in the ancient writings. 

In times after Jesus Christ it is correct to use it as in the case of Paul, and the disciples, and throughout the times even to day and beyond. 

The reason is that the CHRIST JESUS is the one who gives or does the anonting, and not God the Creator. 

Before God the Creator anoint people, and as the Lord God of the Israel, anoint some people. 

And there is only one who has been anointed by the Heavenly Father, his Son Jesus. 

No one before him had his anointing , and given his Holy Spirit. 

Today we have the Holy Spirit from the Father only through Jesus, never without JESUS. 

We see that in the Jordan River, when John the Baptist stand besides one another, and both of them were anointed, but the Holy Spirit choose JESUS and not John the Baptist. 

PS 

To understand that we must be able to distinguish between the Holy Spirit in the OT, 

And the Holy Spirit in the new. 

It is like the old and the new covenants, when the new is here the old is gone. 

As with the beginning of the New year, we have at the same time the end of the old year. 

We do not have the end of one, without the beginning of the other. 

A new understanding is the end of the old, but for a season we live in both.

Like the parable of JESUS about the treasures. 

That's why of all the people Paul who lived under both covenants said: we only need JESUS.

And he never  call upon the name of the Lord God, he knew that we can not have both at the same time, the beginning of one is the end of the other. Just like the biginning of the new year. 

[Retrobyter]

17 hours ago, Yowm said:

I thought this was a probe on our view (see OP), not a correction course according to your view.

 

6 hours ago, Anonymous Aristotle said:

Ineed to have that clarified as well before I contribute so as to be in compliance with what is expected. I agree with you that is what I read in the first post . " This is more of a probe into how people feel about the word "Christ." What does the word mean to you? How many "Christs" were/are there?" 

 

20 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

If you're asking about the True Christ, there is only one.

Shalom, Yowm, Anonymous Aristotle, and especially you, MorningGlory.

Yes, I do feel that I owe you all an apology. It WAS started as a probe of people's views UNTIL just a few posts in, OneLight guessed that I had a trick question involved in my OP.

As I already noticed by that point, most Christians view "christ" as either "many false christs or the One True Christ." I was discovering that was what most people answered in this thread as well, and that's when I began to change tactics and explain the terms "christ" and "messiah."

MorningGlory, I feel I need to apologize mostly to you. I can imagine that you came expecting to state your view to the OP and didn't expect my response to your post. So, for that, I am sorry. I get caught up in the posting and do not always think about the fact that someone might want to just post their opinion and feel safe that it will be left at that.

Anyway, my thought was to disarm all the weird notions about what "Christ," particularly "the Christ," means. We have too religious and ambiguous a definition attached to a simple Greek word translating a simple Hebrew word. The Hebrew word "maashiyach," transliterated into English as "messiah" or "Messiah," simply means "anointed, rubbed, massaged, painted" and implies God's "selected, chosen" for a particular task, since that is what it meant when one was so "anointed" with the Holy Anointing Oil. And, that meant MORE than just pouring the oil over one's head; it meant to "rub or massage it in or paint it on!" The same process is what one does with her or his hair when one puts on cream rinse after shampooing.

The word "christos," transliterated into English as "christ" or "Christ," simply means the same thing as its Hebrew counterpart.

Yowm is right in that it communicates the ULTIMATE "maashiyach" in prophecy, who is to be the LAST King of Y'hudah (Judah) who is to become the LAST King of Israel who is to become the KING OF KINGS or WORLD EMPEROR and who, of course, is the Messiah Yeshua`, but that is ADDED information to the word itself. That IS what it means in John 1:41, but it's good to read the WHOLE context:

John 1:40-51
40 Andrew, Simon Peter's brother, was one of the two who heard what John had said and who had followed Jesus. 41 The first thing Andrew did was to find his brother Simon and tell him, "We have found the Messiah" (that is, the Christ). 42 And he brought him to Jesus.

Jesus looked at him and said, "You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas" (which, when translated, is Peter). 

43 The next day Jesus decided to leave for Galilee. Finding Philip, he said to him, "Follow me." 

44 Philip, like Andrew and Peter, was from the town of Bethsaida. 45 Philip found Nathanael and told him, "We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote — Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph." 

46 "Nazareth! Can anything good (prophetically speaking) come from there?" Nathanael asked.

"Come and see," said Philip. 

47 When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, "Here is a true Israelite, in whom there is nothing false." 

48 "How do you know me?" Nathanael asked.

Jesus answered, "I saw you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you." 

49 Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel." 

50 Jesus said, "You believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You shall see greater things than that."  51 He then added, "I tell you the truth, you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man." 
NIV

What Andrew said in verse 41 is the same as what Nathaniel said in verse 49, "the King of Israel." The phrase "the Son of God" is a reference to the prophecy made to David by YHWH Himself through Nathan the prophet in 2 Samuel 7:14:

2 Samuel 7:8-17
8 Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel:
9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth.
10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,
11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the Lord telleth thee that he will make thee an house.
12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.
17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.
KJV

But, I find it AMAZING, SHOCKING even, that one would think it means "God!" (It does NOT!) But, that's what many Christians hear when they hear the words, "the Lord Jesus Christ!" When I was growing up in a Baptist home, I was taught not just to say "Jesus" or "Christ" or even "the Lord Jesus"; I was encouraged to say the WHOLE phrase, "the Lord Jesus Christ!" Can you guess why?

[wingnut-]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

But, I find it AMAZING, SHOCKING even, that one would think it means "God!" (It does NOT!) But, that's what many Christians hear when they hear the words, "the Lord Jesus Christ!" When I was growing up in a Baptist home, I was taught not just to say "Jesus" or "Christ" or even "the Lord Jesus"; I was encouraged to say the WHOLE phrase, "the Lord Jesus Christ!" Can you guess why?

 

I am guessing because anything less was considered to be taking His name in vain.

[Retrobyter]

16 hours ago, wingnut- said:

I am guessing because anything less was considered to be taking His name in vain.

Shalom, wingnut-.

Perhaps, but my dad (who was a Baptist preacher back then) told me that it was to be specific about whom you are addressing. He once told us that demons would imitate God in MANY ways, including demons named "Jesus." One demon-possessed man would repeat over and over again, "Jesus is the center," and the demon central to the possession by hundreds of demons WAS named "Jesus."

I don't know any more; that's what my father told us (in church). I believe it was on a Wednesday night, prayer meeting night.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Retrobyter

[wingnut-]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, wingnut-.

Perhaps, but my dad (who was a Baptist preacher back then) told me that it was to be specific about whom you are addressing. He once told us that demons would imitate God in MANY ways, including demons named "Jesus." One demon-possessed man would repeat over and over again, "Jesus is the center," and the demon central to the possession by hundreds of demons WAS named "Jesus."

I don't know any more; that's what my father told us (in church). I believe it was on a Wednesday night, prayer meeting night.

 

Ah, well that is a bit more interesting of an explanation.  I was guessing based on being brought up in a Baptist church, recalling some things I had been told back then.

God bless

[Retrobyter]

On 6/14/2017 at 3:18 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

Shalom Retrobyter, I want to thank you, for many things, first for all the hard work you put in starting this post; definitely it is interesting to see how you have phrased it, and you did well to invite the readers to look into your reasons why you have phrased it in this way. There is a lot to learn, and a lot to discover, even though you may expect that most of us we will immediately rush to defend that there is only one CHRIST and that is JESUS. 

Your thoughts are beautiful the way you are kind of sounding controversial, but we have fail to see what you are trying to show the reader. 

Next, thank you for reading our post thoroughly, and taking the time to reply and address each one separately. 

Instead of going back and reasoning myself out of some (not all) of your comments, I will take another try at it, without a righteous indignation this time, which was somehow diminishing to you, guessing things which you never said, kind of been proactive defending something. 

The word "christ", in your post, does not make reference to a very specific person, but to anyone who was anointed by God, in the times before Jesus, and before Abraham and after till the time of JESUS. 

Shalom, Your closest friendnt.

Actually, that's not true. The word "christos" is used in the Septuagint version of Leviticus 4:5 and is also found in Daniel 9:24. The English of both is...

Leviticus 4:5-6
5 And the priest that is anointed (christos) shall take of the bullock's blood, and bring it to the tabernacle of the congregation:
6 And the priest shall dip his finger in the blood, and sprinkle of the blood seven times before the LORD, before the vail of the sanctuary.
KJV

This is SPECIFICALLY talking about Aharown (Aaron), Mosheh's (Moses') brother.

Daniel 9:25-26
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah (christou) the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah (chrisma) be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
KJV

When David calls Saul the LORD'S Anointed, in the Septuagint it uses the phrase: too kurioo mou too christoo kuriou = "the lord of-me the anointed of-[the]-Lord" or "my lord the LORD'S anointed" and hoti christos kuriou estin houtos = "because anointed of-[the]-LORD he-is this-one" or "because he is this anointed of the LORD."

1 Samuel 24:6
6 And he said unto his men, The LORD forbid that I should do this thing unto my master, the LORD'S anointed, to stretch forth mine hand against him, seeing he is the anointed of the LORD.
KJV

On 6/14/2017 at 3:18 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

And continuously after that without an and to our time and after our time. 

There is a misunderstanding that can create confusion, and you did not distinguish the deferences with clarity, you have approached this issue as if there is not a profound distinction amongst the anointed. 

That's because technically there ISN'T a difference between those who are called "the anointed!" And, that was my point!

On 6/14/2017 at 3:18 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

To use the word anointed in times before Jesus Christ and after that to our time it is and it is not quite precise, even though many people can not tell the difference, when they can not tell the difference when they use the word God. 

To use the word "Christos" or " Christ" for the anointing of those in times before JESUS CHRIST, it is not correct, (and it could be within the specific frame of context), 

That time the people themselves did not use this word. This word it is a later word, and it was not part of their vocabulary. And if it was in the Greek, it was never used for the propose you are using it in this discussion. 

This word can not be found in the ancient writings. 

In times after Jesus Christ it is correct to use it as in the case of Paul, and the disciples, and throughout the times even to day and beyond. 

I've shown you above that this is NOT true. Whether they used the OT Hebrew word "maashiyach" or the NT Greek word "christos," both meant the same thing and were used of people OTHER THAN the Ultimate Messiah Yeshua`.

On 6/14/2017 at 3:18 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

The reason is that the CHRIST JESUS is the one who gives or does the anointing, and not God the Creator. 

Be careful here. Do NOT misspeak YHWH nor His power. HE is the One who anointed all these people, including the Messiah Yeshua`!

On 6/14/2017 at 3:18 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

Before God the Creator anoint people, and as the Lord God of the Israel, anoint some people. 

And there is only one who has been anointed by the Heavenly Father, his Son Jesus. 

No one before him had his anointing, and given his Holy Spirit.

THAT'S not true, either! You REALLY need to check your facts before making rash claims!

1 Samuel 16:11-13
11 And Samuel said unto Jesse, Are here all thy children? And he said, There remaineth yet the youngest, and, behold, he keepeth the sheep. And Samuel said unto Jesse, Send and fetch him: for we will not sit down till he come hither.
12 And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the LORD said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he.
13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.
KJV

On 6/14/2017 at 3:18 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

Today we have the Holy Spirit from the Father only through Jesus, never without JESUS. 

We see that in the Jordan River, when John the Baptist stand besides one another, and both of them were anointed, but the Holy Spirit chose JESUS and not John the Baptist. 

PS 

To understand that we must be able to distinguish between the Holy Spirit in the OT, 

And the Holy Spirit in the new. 

It is like the old and the new covenants, when the new is here the old is gone. 

As with the beginning of the New year, we have at the same time the end of the old year. 

We do not have the end of one, without the beginning of the other. 

A new understanding is the end of the old, but for a season we live in both.

Like the parable of JESUS about the treasures. 

That's why of all the people Paul who lived under both covenants said: we only need JESUS.

And he never  call upon the name of the Lord God, he knew that we can not have both at the same time, the beginning of one is the end of the other. Just like the biginning of the new year. 

Wow. You REALLY need to be careful here! "The Holy Spirit of God is DIFFERENT in the Old Testament and in the New?"

NO! It's the ONE and THE SAME HOLY SPIRIT!

[Denadii]

On 6/9/2017 at 5:07 PM, Retrobyter said:

This is more of a probe into how people feel about the word "Christ." What does the word mean to you? How many "Christs" were/are there?

LOL  Tricky question.  Its one that is sure to start another fight.   As somebody on this thread said.  'The word Christ means Anointed'  Jesus Christ (the anointed one, and his anointing)   

Now the fighting words.  Namely....'We are anointed with the same anointing that Jesus is anointed with.'

Before the fur flies....What does anointing mean?   Anointing means 'Authorized...sent'     So....The Father sent Jesus, Jesus trains us and sends us.  We also are the anointed.  Therefore one could say that we are christs.   

Let the fight begin...I'm done

[Couppy]

On 9/18/2017 at 1:49 AM, Denadii said:

LOL  Tricky question.  Its one that is sure to start another fight.   As somebody on this thread said.  'The word Christ means Anointed'  Jesus Christ (the anointed one, and his anointing)   

Now the fighting words.  Namely....'We are anointed with the same anointing that Jesus is anointed with.'

Before the fur flies....What does anointing mean?   Anointing means 'Authorized...sent'     So....The Father sent Jesus, Jesus trains us and sends us.  We also are the anointed.  Therefore one could say that we are christs.   

Let the fight begin...I'm done

Hmm... very interesting.  Denandii Christ?  Does that sound right?  Where in the scripture states we are anointed with the same anointing Jesus had?  Jesus trained us but we do not have the same anointing, otherwise we would do exactly what Jesus did - die for the sins of the world.  For those sent are giving the measure of anointing enough to fulfil whatever they are work God has called them to do.