SavedOnebyGrace Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,056 Content Per Day: 15.13 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, da_man1974 said: Not sure if this has been spoken of yet. But if there are stars that are light years away, how did the light get here in such a short amount of time? Not sure either. But it's one of the first arguments I bring up with YEC. Their pat reply is that He made things with age, like Adam. So in other words, they believe God is deliberately tricking us with scientific facts! The Bible says the following: Quote Similarly, God says he will punish those who try to use prophets to buttress their sin. In that situation he says, “If the prophet is deceived and speaks a word, I, the Lord, have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel. And they shall bear their punishment—the punishment of the prophet and the punishment of the inquirer shall be alike” (Ezekiel 14:9-10). God takes a dim view of deception. Quote "And if anyone still prophesies, then his father and mother who gave birth to him will say to him, 'You shall not live, for you have spoken falsely in the name of the LORD'; and his father and mother who gave birth to him will pierce him through when he prophesies. (Zechariah 13:3) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da_man1974 Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 25 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 726 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 575 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/30/1974 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I am actually amazed that there are other OEC creationists here. This is currently a topic that I have been trying to study in depth. I am reading the book by Hugh Ross called a matter days. It gets pretty deep but brings up some good points and evidence for why he believes in an old earth creation. I have also noticed as he points out in his book that I get a lot of negative and down right rude feedback from YEC when I speak of this subject. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltan777 Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 295 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/25/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 40 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said: I like the way HAZARD thinks also. One difference he and I would have is concerning the 4th day of creation. I would say the sun, moon and stars were already created in Genesis 1:1. They were still operating at the same manner in the days up to Day 4, but the atmosphere was so thick their light was hidden. So God's activity in Day 4 culminated in the visible sun, moon and stars to shine upon earth and the plant life God created in Day 3. So the question often comes up, what made the plants grow in Day 3? Why the light of God's presence which was already noted in Genesis 1:3. This was God's own light, it cannot be anything else. I can imagine more that God has turned off the light of the sun which caused the earth to be desolated. But it's just a theory and yours could be right. But still it's a nice thinking. The question about plants I think it's quite obvious: Genesis: 2. 5. Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground..... 8. Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. I think God sowed the seeds of ever plants over the earth but He made the garden of Eden by planting trees. Or it could be as you said growing the seeds really fast by His glory. Either way I can't find any difficulty to understand this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,056 Content Per Day: 15.13 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2017 5 minutes ago, Zoltan777 said: I can imagine more that God has turned off the light of the sun which caused the earth to be desolated. But it's just a theory and yours could be right. But still it's a nice thinking. The question about plants I think it's quite obvious: Genesis: 2. 5. Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground..... 8. Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. I think God sowed the seeds of ever plants over the earth but He made the garden of Eden by planting trees. Or it could be as you said growing the seeds really fast by His glory. Either way I can't find any difficulty to understand this. So if no shrub had appeared on the earth, we have to be talking about the beginning of Day 3. But we can't be talking about Day 3, because Man was already created. So this means God planted seeds for all the trees and shrubs on Day 3, not fully formed (aged) trees. So wherever man was, however old he was, God put him in the special garden He made in Eden. How many years past we cannot say. So we are now talking about a season, at least, for everything to grow. It's tricky reconciling the Genesis 1 creation account with the details in the Genesis 2 account. One thing it does not support is the YEC account of things being created with age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevinb Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Seeker Followers: 4 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 423 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 70 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/18/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2017 (edited) God created with age hypothesis... those who think this still need to demonstrate this not just state right? Magnificent claims require magnificent evidence. 1 hour ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said: It's tricky reconciling the Genesis 1 creation account with the details in the Genesis 2 account. One thing it does not support is the YEC account of things being created with age. It's difficult reconciling genesis accounts with science. what we have here are just unsubstantiated assertions. How do we prove that's true? If we use faith...is there any position one couldn't hold on faith? How do we have day and night on the 1st day and the sun on the 4th as per genesis? Edited August 8, 2017 by Kevinb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltan777 Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 295 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/25/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said: So if no shrub had appeared on the earth, we have to be talking about the beginning of Day 3. But we can't be talking about Day 3, because Man was already created. So this means God planted seeds for all the trees and shrubs on Day 3, not fully formed (aged) trees. So wherever man was, however old he was, God put him in the special garden He made in Eden. How many years past we cannot say. So we are now talking about a season, at least, for everything to grow. It's tricky reconciling the Genesis 1 creation account with the details in the Genesis 2 account. One thing it does not support is the YEC account of things being created with age. I still can't see any problem to understand this. On the 3rd day no plants were created only the seeds that was sowed over the earth. Was no rain so they could grow. Man was created on the 6th day and on the same day God planted the garden of Eden. I believe between these events was 3 day difference. If you have 1m angels ready it can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,056 Content Per Day: 15.13 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2017 17 minutes ago, Kevinb said: God created with age hypothesis... those who think this still need to demonstrate this not just state right? Magnificent claims require magnificent evidence. It's difficult reconciling genesis accounts with science. what we have here are just unsubstantiated assertions. How do we have day and night on the 1st day and the sun on the 4th? You see, in the Gap Theory I subscribe to this is a non-issue because the sun, moon and stars are still there as God created them in Genesis 1:1. The view from a watcher on the surface of the earth is a different manner. The earth is in a state of chaos due to judgment, per scriptures HAZARD already cited. The earth as described in Genesis 1:2 is the earth that would be the starting point for the creation verses to follow in Genesis 1:3. On the first day, God created light (not the sun which was already in existence from a prior creation, i.e. Big Bang). But light that could only come from God to restore earth to its former state. God's light would be the only light until the atmosphere would be fully restored to an earth of a non-judgment state. So we have a universe 13.8 billion years old, an earth 4.4 million years old, a younger moon, etc., all in harmony with science and the Bible. The greatest disproof of the theory of evolution is DNA. DNA is a programming language. A Programming language is designed by a Programmer (God), not by an accident of nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,056 Content Per Day: 15.13 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, Zoltan777 said: I still can't see any problem to understand this. On the 3rd day no plants were created only the seeds that was sowed over the earth. Was no rain so they could grow. Man was created on the 6th day and on the same day God planted the garden of Eden. I believe between these events was 3 day difference. If you have 1m angels ready it can be done. You are forgetting, there were trees in the Garden of Eden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltan777 Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 295 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/25/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 10 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said: You are forgetting, there were trees in the Garden of Eden. It's simple because God made that garden planting trees. For the rest of the earth was only the seeds planted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,056 Content Per Day: 15.13 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2017 Just now, Zoltan777 said: It's simple because God made that garden planting trees. For the rest of the earth was only the seeds planted. Where did the trees come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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