Zoltan777 Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 295 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/25/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said: Where did the trees come from? Good question. I think from the same source where the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil came from. Edited August 8, 2017 by Zoltan777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,056 Content Per Day: 15.13 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, Zoltan777 said: Good question. I think from the same source where the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil came from. Are you saying God created these with the appearance of age, not from seed? If so, you are using a YEC argument to support your hypothesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltan777 Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 295 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/25/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said: Are you saying God created these with the appearance of age, not from seed? If so, you are using a YEC argument to support your hypothesis. I don't know what YEC stands for and not familiar with their theory. But I think garden of Eden was a special place. As the Bible says it was beautiful with all kind of fruits that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. Which means it has enough nutrition for a man. Also, I don't know what kind of trees were there but judging by the the two special tree (tree of life and tree of knowledge) it must be different than the rest of the earth. I believe it came from the heaven. That's way God said to protect it. If it was the same like the rest of the earth why would i need it to protect it? And from who by the way? And as I said the rest of the earth was just planted with seeds with any kind of plants you can see today. But not like Eden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,056 Content Per Day: 15.13 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Zoltan777 said: I don't know what YEC stands for and not familiar with their theory. But I think garden of Eden was a special place. As the Bible says it was beautiful with all kind of fruits that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. Which means it has enough nutrition for a man. Also, I don't know what kind of trees were there but judging by the the two special tree (tree of life and tree of knowledge) it must be different than the rest of the earth. I believe it came from the heaven. That's way God said to protect it. If it was the same like the rest of the earth why would i need it to protect it? And from who by the way? And as I said the rest of the earth was just planted with seeds with any kind of plants you can see today. But not like Eden. YEC = Young Earth Creationist OEC = Old Earth Creationist I am an OEC. This means I see no conflict between my Christian Fundamentalist faith and any of the sciences excluding the Theory of Evolution. I am a degreed Mechanical Engineer well versed in many subjects. For Old Earth Creationists like myself, there are basically two competing theories: The Gap Theory; The Day-Age Theory. There are quite a few variations within these major positions. I'm going to leave this conversation for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevinb Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Seeker Followers: 4 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 423 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 70 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/18/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2017 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said: The greatest disproof of the theory of evolution is DNA. DNA is a programming language. A Programming language is designed by a Programmer (God), not by an accident of nature. Okay I understand why people think this but how do you demonstrate God did it? Best we've got is an argument from analogy? It may help if you don't call it a programming language. Computers can be demonstrated to be designed...built in factories etc and they don't occur in nature and breed. It's a false analogy I'm afraid let alone an argument from analogy is a weak position Edited August 8, 2017 by Kevinb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da_man1974 Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 25 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 726 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 575 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/30/1974 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I think for God to have created the Earth in 6 literal days he would have had to bypass some of the laws of physics. While it certainly in His power to do so, I just don't believe He would have done that. That could lead to pretty much everything we know as being false. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltan777 Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 295 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/25/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said: YEC = Young Earth Creationist OEC = Old Earth Creationist I am an OEC. This means I see no conflict between my Christian Fundamentalist faith and any of the sciences excluding the Theory of Evolution. I am a degreed Mechanical Engineer well versed in many subjects. For Old Earth Creationists like myself, there are basically two competing theories: The Gap Theory; The Day-Age Theory. There are quite a few variations within these major positions. I'm going to leave this conversation for awhile. Lot's of information that I never heard of. But in this case I am at the side of OEC. I believe between the earth creation and the first day there was a gap. Regarding the plants as I said garden of Eden was different from the rest of the earth. It could possible mean that it was aged by God's glory or something but I tend to believe it was brought down from Heaven on the same day when man was created. The reasons for this: 1. There is no tree of life and tree of knowledge exist on earth. Where did they come from? Tree of life mentioned in the Revelation as it is located in the heaven. 2. All the fruits was enough to nourish a man. It can't be just an apple. It must be something special. One more thought for this. I have heard some Christians saying that God wants us to eat only fruits. So they became vegetarians and vegans. But that's just simple stupid. We don't know what kind of fruits were in Eden but one thing sure it has enough nutrition for a man. God let us eat meat because the fruit on the rest of the earth was not enough to nourish a man. But come back when you have time and let me know about your theory. Edited August 8, 2017 by Zoltan777 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,056 Content Per Day: 15.13 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2017 49 minutes ago, Kevinb said: Okay I understand why people think this but how do you demonstrate God did it? Best we've got is an argument from analogy? It may help if you don't call it a programming language. Computers can be demonstrated to be designed...built in factories etc and they don't occur in nature and breed. It's a false analogy I'm afraid let alone an argument from analogy is a weak position Signature in the Cell: DNA and the Evidence for Intelligent Design, by Stephen C. Meyer (Author). I suggest you start with this book. And then, start studying Thermodynamics, especially the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. And then, study the Philosophical arguments of Thomas Aquinas and his proofs for the existence of God. Get back to me after that. A quick search on Amazon showed a plethora of books on the DNA programming language. Intelligence created this language, it could not have been done by accident. I call this intelligence God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevinb Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Seeker Followers: 4 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 423 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 70 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/18/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said: Signature in the Cell: DNA and the Evidence for Intelligent Design, by Stephen C. Meyer (Author). I suggest you start with this book. And then, start studying Thermodynamics, especially the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. And then, study the Philosophical arguments of Thomas Aquinas and his proofs for the existence of God I've heard and seen these creationist debunks... been around years. The 2nd law of thermodynamics isn't proof either..a common creationist misconception. Done this many times but please explain how the 2nd law of thermodynamics proves God did it. Philosophical arguments are proof and evidence now? Seriously? Edited August 8, 2017 by Kevinb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted August 8, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted August 8, 2017 4 hours ago, da_man1974 said: Not sure if this has been spoken of yet. But if there are stars that are light years away, how did the light get here in such a short amount of time? Well firstly, because "Light Years" isn't a Measure of "Time" or "Distance"... According to 'The Narrative', "Light Years" is not a measure of "Time"...it's one of "Distance". For you to be able to ascertain the "Time" component, you *MUST KNOW* the..."One-Way" Speed of Light. Unfortunately, you can never know that because it's a Begging The Question Fallacy... In TOTO, resulting from the inability to Synchronize 2 'clocks' by some distance. Watch... How do we determine the "SPEED" or "RATE" of something?? Distance = Rate x Time, right?? So... R = D/T It's the "T" that's in focus here. You need 2 Clocks, right? Clock A (Terminus a quo) and Clock B (Terminus ad quem). According to Einstein's 'Relativity', the moment you move Clock B... That Clock is DE-SYNCHRONIZED !!!! What do you Need to KNOW to reconcile and SYNCHRONIZE Clock B to Clock A ?? That's Right Folks... The "One-Way" Speed of Light !!! So the ENTIRE Exercise is a TEXTBOOK: Begging The Question Fallacy. Einstein made the very same conclusion... “It would thus appear as though we were moving here in a logical circle.” A. Einstein, Relativity: The Special and General Theory, authorized translation by R. W. Lawson (New York: Crown Publishers, 1961), pp. 22–23. Regarding the "One Way" Speed of Light, Einstein concluded....“That light requires THE SAME TIME to traverse the path A-M as for the path B-M is in reality NEITHER A SUPPOSITION NOR A HYPOTHESIS about the physical nature of light, but a stipulation which I can make of *MY OWN FREEWILL* in order to arrive at a definition of simultaneity.” A. Einstein, Relativity: The Special and General Theory, authorized translation by R. W. Lawson (New York: Crown Publishers, 1961), p. 23. Ergo...the Speed of Light (average "Two-Way" Speed) is merely a 'CONVENTION' that we've agreed upon. More strikingly, according to Quantum Mechanics... Independent of Knowledge/Existence of 'which-path' Information, " LIGHT " (Photons) -- have no defined properties or location. Photons exist in a state of a Wave Function which is a series of Potentialities rather than actual objects. That is, Matter/Photons don't exist as a Wave of Energy prior to observation but as a Wave of Potentialities. “It begins to look as we ourselves, by our last minute decision, have an influence on what a photon will do when it has already accomplished most of its doing… we have to say that we ourselves have an undeniable part in what we have always called the past. The past is not really the past until is has been REGISTERED. Or to put it another way, the past has no meaning or existence unless it exists as a RECORD in the present.”Prof. John Wheeler "Referenced in"; The Ghost In The Atom; Page 66-68.Unless you can explicitly identify "A Knower" @ the source of this Light (Photons)....who also "observed" it's entire 'path', AND the "observer" who first identified it here on Earth and RECORDED it (Date and Time stamped) THEN, you're gonna have to provide.... The Speed of a Wave of Potentialities !! Go ahead...I'll get the Popcorn !!! ps. As you can determine quite easily above, In Reality...Light Years is neither a measure of "Time" or "Distance". It's merely a "Convention", that we've agreed upon. Voila regards 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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