Pre-Tribulation Proofs

[OldCoot]

18 minutes ago, Diaste said:

For one Clarke uses the Talmud as the basis for the last trump, referencing Jewish tradition in the blowing of the trumps, to ascertain the last trump. This is NOT biblical. Lev 23 make no statement about a first or last trump on the 1st day of the 7th month of the Jewish calendar. The Talmud does.

Who is the Lord? 

Well, yes, the Talmud does mention that. But that is expounding on the Leviticus 23 which lays down the prescription of Yom Teruah, or Feast of Trumpets.  But it was tradition long before the Talmud that there would be a series of trumpet blasts on the this feast day, which is actually a two day event.  there are many things that were developed as tradition on top of the basic requirements of scripture. But that doesn't mean they were unBiblical in nature.

There is no mention of Hannukah in scripture, but in John 10:22, we see Yeshua at the Temple during that festival.  And He sure wasn't condemning it.  So since that festival is not directly laid out in scripture like Yom Teruah (Trumpets), but only in the Talmud and Mishna, is it then unbiblical and therefore sin to honor it?  That would make Yeshua a sinner.   Our salvation means squat.  

One can get so hyper literal that they blind themselves.  One ends up not seeing the forest because of the trees.

[Last Daze]

24 minutes ago, Adstar said:

They will not repent of it.. The Bible says that they shall all be cast into the eternal lake of fire..

 

Revelation 14: KJV

9 "And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, {10} The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: {11} And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."

That passage addresses those who persist in utilizing the mark and worshiping the image.  It's not a reference to a one-time event that occurred sometime in the past.  Otherwise the verbs would be past tense, i.e. "received" and "worshiped", and they aren't.  Check the original language is you disagree.

[OldCoot]

54 minutes ago, Diaste said:

You just don't get it. Or maybe you do and you decide to engage in that behavior. No matter, I have a question.

Who is the Lord? 

YHVH

I think I answered this question from you in another thread.  Seems a little ridiculous you would ask again.

[Last Daze]

21 minutes ago, OldCoot said:

The scripture implies that it is a conscious decision to do so and none change their mind about it. Read all those things that come upon the earth, and virtually every time, people refuse to repent.  They hide themselves in rocks and caves and what not, but they just don't want to repent.

They hide themselves in caves at the sixth seal, just before the plagues start.   It's not stated that people refuse to repent until late in the progression of the plagues.

[OldCoot]

42 minutes ago, Diaste said:

This is the main problem with christianity; everything is allowed or explained away as the merest of issues. I know he says he isn't a date setter, but he chooses dates that correspond to specific dates many times. For instance he says the rapture will happen on the feast of trumpets. Well, that's the 1st day of the 7th month, a specific date. Further, Clarke says we can know the day and the hour and that scripture is wrong in saying we cannot.

But that's ok. Continue on your course. You'll see soon enough.

Who is the Lord?

Well, it is really unreasonable to think that the festival days are associated with major events?  Yeshua fulfilled all the spring Holy days laid out in Leviticus 23.... right down to the very day, even the hour.   Is it really all that wild eyed to think that the fall feast that remain will also be significant?  Isaiah said that the Messiah's coming would be as the former and latter rain.    On the Hebrew religious calendar established in Exodus, the former would be the spring and the latter would be the fall.  Unlike the civil calendar that preceded it, which has the former in the fall and the latter in the spring.  Since YHVH established for Israel the religious calendar would be their new calendar, it aligns with how Yeshua fulfilled the spring Holy Days first.  That leaves the Fall Holy Days remaining.  Yeshua chastised the leaders for not recognizing these things.

Always keep in mind, Leviticus 23 which lays out the Holy Days, also says that they are rehearsals. Rehersals for what?  Yeshua said the Torah and the Prophets were written of Him.  So by extension, the Holy days laid out in Leviticus 23 have everything to do with rehearsing for future events associated with the Messiah.

 

[OldCoot]

7 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

They hide themselves in caves at the sixth seal, just before the plagues start.   It's not stated that people refuse to repent until late in the progression of the plagues.

Still it remains.... the Lord is the one opening the seals. That implies those events associated with each seal would not occur if He didn't open those seals.  Therefore, the entire period is Lord directed.   And that still matches up with Isaiah 26.

[Diaste]

17 minutes ago, OldCoot said:

Well, it is really unreasonable to think that the festival days are associated with major events?  

 

You'll see soon enough.

Who is the Lord?

[Diaste]

36 minutes ago, OldCoot said:

Well, yes, the Talmud does mention that. But that is expounding on the Leviticus 23 which lays down the prescription of Yom Teruah, or Feast of Trumpets.  But it was tradition long before the Talmud that there would be a series of trumpet blasts on the this feast day, which is actually a two day event.  there are many things that were developed as tradition on top of the basic requirements of scripture. But that doesn't mean they were unBiblical in nature.

There is no mention of Hannukah in scripture, but in John 10:22, we see Yeshua at the Temple during that festival.  And He sure wasn't condemning it.  So since that festival is not directly laid out in scripture like Yom Teruah (Trumpets), but only in the Talmud and Mishna, is it then unbiblical and therefore sin to honor it?  That would make Yeshua a sinner.   Our salvation means squat.  

One can get so hyper literal that they blind themselves.  One ends up not seeing the forest because of the trees.

Way off the point. Justify anything you wish. You'll see soon enough there is no pretrib rapture.

Who is the Lord? 

[OldCoot]

2 minutes ago, Diaste said:

You'll see soon enough.

Who is the Lord?

 

Yes WE will.   And the neat thing, it is coming at us like a rocket sled.  Not a lot of time left.  AMEN!

[Diaste]

30 minutes ago, OldCoot said:

YHVH

I think I answered this question from you in another thread.  Seems a little ridiculous you would ask again.

So you answered incorrectly, twice?

I beseech thee to seek the Lord.