The Witnesses

[Dennis1209]

On 9/14/2017 at 7:25 PM, TheBride123 said:

 I believe the two witnesses to be Enoch and St. John of the Apocalypse . When the seven thunders speak- St John is told not to write Rev. 10: 8-11 . He is told to eat the scroll. It is sweet like honey in his mouth but bitter to his stomach. Because the word of God is sweet, but the persecution and martyrdom it brings is bitter and hard to digest. I believe the other witness to be Enoch because like John Enoch too- saw the end days and the mysteries of heaven. To witness means: to give account as to what you witnessed - already seen.

They saw the future in it's entirety. Many have said Elijah is one- but Christ already revealed that he came- Mathew 17: 10- 13 And the disciples asked Him, "Then why do the scribes say Elijah must come?" He replied, Elijah does come, and he is to restore all things; but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of man will suffer at their hands." Then the disciples understood that He was speaking to them about John the Baptist. The witnesses are of the mind set of the Church of Smyrna. The letters to the churches today speak to out mind sets. Smyrna means  "Anointing Oil - Myrrh " They are His anointed ones. Those of the mind frame of Philadelphia and Smyrna have no faults at the time of the trumpets. However,  those of the mind frame of Smyrna are martyred. Those of the mind set of Philadelphia will be persecuted but not martyred. They will be raptured at the end of the

tribulation after those who are beheaded rise first-Rev 20. tells their placement as to resurrection.  They are of the first resurrection.

We can all agree to disagree agreeably, and my hermeneutics and theology differ.

I used to think Elijah and Enoch might be the two witnesses, as it is appointed men once to die, then the judgment. However, through much study I have changed that personal opinion to Elijah and Moses. The Bible is full of types and symbolism, I believe Enoch is a picture of the Rapture for numerous reasons. To wit, he was miraculously rescued from impending judgment just as Lot was. I suspect the two witnesses might be Elijah and Moses, based on the earthly powers God granted them, and their presence at the Transfiguration. 

John eating the scroll? Consider this, what do John and Daniel have in common? Daniel was told to stop writing and seal the Book until the end-times, and John in Revelation was not told that. It appears to me John is eating (digesting) the Book of Daniel?

I'm not dogmatic about the preceding, as there are a number of other interpretations that would also fit, but I find the above seems to fit better. I suspect we're going to find out the mysteries here in the foreseeable future.

[Fidei Defensor]

17 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

We can all agree to disagree agreeably, and my hermeneutics and theology differ.

I used to think Elijah and Enoch might be the two witnesses, as it is appointed men once to die, then the judgment. However, through much study I have changed that personal opinion to Elijah and Moses. The Bible is full of types and symbolism, I believe Enoch is a picture of the Rapture for numerous reasons. To wit, he was miraculously rescued from impending judgment just as Lot was. I suspect the two witnesses might be Elijah and Moses, based on the earthly powers God granted them, and their presence at the Transfiguration. 

John eating the scroll? Consider this, what do John and Daniel have in common? Daniel was told to stop writing and seal the Book until the end-times, and John in Revelation was not told that. It appears to me John is eating (digesting) the Book of Daniel?

I'm not dogmatic about the preceding, as there are a number of other interpretations that would also fit, but I find the above seems to fit better. I suspect we're going to find out the mysteries here in the foreseeable future.

Interesting thoughts, the possibility of Moses and Elijah being Two Witnesses harkens to them appearing and talking with Jesus at Transfiguration, "Six days later Jesus took Peter and the two brothers, James and John, and led them up a high mountain to be alone. ² As the men watched, Jesus’ appearance was transformed so that his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as light. ³ Suddenly, Moses and Elijah appeared and began talking with Jesus." (Matthew 17:1-3). Very interesting thoughts Dennis. While I still hold to the Two Witnesses most likely being Elijah and Enoch (see my post earlier), your suggestion that it might be Moses and Elijah is convincing. Thanks for sharing this. 

[Last Daze]

11 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Interesting thoughts, the possibility of Moses and Elijah being Two Witnesses harkens to them appearing and talking with Jesus at Transfiguration, "Six days later Jesus took Peter and the two brothers, James and John, and led them up a high mountain to be alone. ² As the men watched, Jesus’ appearance was transformed so that his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as light. ³ Suddenly, Moses and Elijah appeared and began talking with Jesus." (Matthew 17:1-3). Very interesting thoughts Dennis. While I still hold to the Two Witnesses most likely being Elijah and Enoch (see my post earlier), your suggestion that it might be Moses and Elijah is convincing. Thanks for sharing this. 

I just read an interesting take on the transfiguration as a type or symbolism of the rapture;  Moses representing the dead in Christ and Elijah representing those who are alive and remain.

[Fidei Defensor]

5 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

I just read an interesting take on the transfiguration as a type or symbolism of the rapture;  Moses representing the dead in Christ and Elijah representing those who are alive and remain.

Fascinating! I never thought of them representing the two groups at End of Days!, "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever." (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).  

You got me thinking... 

1. Moses died but comes to visit Jesus
2. Elijah never died and comes to visit Jesus
3. Zachariah died and was raised by Jesus
4. Jesus died on cross and rose from dead by the power of God alone, rose Himself because He's one with Father (John 10:30) and Spirit (John 20:19-21). 

We see a progression. Raising people from dead as prophet, as Ezekiel did with Dead Bones had happened before; but Jesus' Resurrection is unique in that no one raised Him (no prophet) but God and He himself is fullness of Godhead (Colossians 2:9, Colossians 1:19) and so raised Himself! 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Fidei Defensor