ERROR OF TRANSUBSTANTIATION (1215 AD). Definition: The whole substance of the bread and wine is converted into the actual and real entire body and blood of Christ. Answer: Radbertus first invented this doctrine in the 9th century. Catholics support this by a literal view of Matthew 26:26-29. "Take eat; this is my body. For this is my blood of the new testament which is shed for many for the remission of sins." Consider these reasons why the bread and wine were symbols of Christ’s body and blood, to be partaken in for remembrance purposes only, and that there was no material conversion of the bread to the body, nor of the wine to the blood of Christ. 1. Jesus, after saying "this is my blood" in Matthew 26:28 also said "I will not drink henceforth of this FRUIT OF THIS VINE" in Matthew 26:29, showing that the grapejuice was STILL WINE and had not been changed to blood. 2. Jesus often referred to Himself in symbols. So why see Him as literal in a symbolic context? John 10:7 "I am the door." Did Jesus mean he was literally wooden? No. John 14:6 "I am the way." Did Jesus mean he was literally a road? No. John 15:5 "I am the vine." Did Jesus mean he was literally a tree? No. John 8:12 "I am the light." Did Jesus mean he was literally a torch or a sun? No. John 6:48 "I am the bread of life." Did Jesus mean he was literally a loaf of dough? No. John 6:63 states clearly that Jesus was speaking spiritually, not literally: "The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life." Luke 22:19 states clearly that the Lord's supper is for remembrance purposes: "This do in remembrance of me." This is a metaphor, where one thing is said to be another thing because of it’s similarity. A metaphor is a figurative use of terms without indicating their figurative nature, for example, “he shall eat his words”. 3. The bread and wine did not become Christ's body and blood because: a) Christ was still present with them. Christ would have had 2 bodies, one which died on the cross and one which did not. b) To drink blood was forbidden in Acts 15:20,29 "We write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from BLOOD." In Deuteronomy 12:16 "Only ye shall not eat the blood." 4. The tense of the Greek verbs "EAT" in John 6:50,51,52,53,54,56,57,58 is in the AORIST tense showing a ONCE-FOR-ALL, point action, that is NOT CONTINUAL. The Biblical Lord's supper is to be a repeated event, and therefore has no saving merit. Roman Catholics are commanded to believe in transubstantiation because it was stated at the Council of Trent (11 October 1551) that this doctrine was essential for salvation. They pronounced curses on anyone who would deny it. Paul the Apostle, in contrast, pronounced a double curse on anyone who preached a gospel different from the all sufficiency of Christ's death, burial and resurrection to save us from our sins. Galatians 1:6-9 puts a double curse on this "other gospel" of transubstantiation for salvation. 5. Before Christ ascended to heaven, He promised to come to us during the Church Age, NOT in the sacrifice of the MASS, but by the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-18 as Comforter): "He shall give you another Comforter ... even the Spirit of truth ... I will not leave you comfortless: I WILL COME TO YOU.” Note: Christ will return to earth a second time visibly in glory. This is what is meant by 1 Corinthians 11:26 "For as oftenas ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death TILL HE COME." Note: This means that Christ does not come literally and visibly as the wafer in the mass, but to the air as in 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17. 6. At the Council of Constance in 1415 it was agreed to withold the cup from the congregation lest the wine be spilt. However this contradicts 1 Corinthians 11:25-29 where ALL Corinthian believers drank of the wine: "Whosoever shall eat this bread and drink this cup unworthily." v.27. Drinking the cup is mentioned six times in five verses. Transubstantiation is not a mystery, but an absurdity; not a difficulty but a contradiction. Question: How then do we eat his flesh and drink his blood? Answer: Through the WORD OF GOD. John 6:63 "The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh." John 5:24 "He that heareth my Word and believeth on him that sent me, has everlasting life." The scribes who knew Jeremiah 31:31-34, "I will put my law in their inward parts", and Jeremiah 15:16, "Thy words were found and I DID EAT THEM; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart", understood the idea of receiving God's Word into one’s inner being. Peter got the message, while others planned to desert Jesus: "Thou hast the WORDS of eternal life." John 6:68. "Being born again ... by the WORD of God." 1 Peter 1:23-25. Peter knew that Jesus was speaking about the WORD of God, and not about literal flesh and blood. Question: If this doctrine of transubstantiation only arose in the 9th century, and if it is so necessary to Roman Catholic salvation, what happened to those who lived before the 9th century not believing this doctrine? Did they all go to hell? Question: What about the thief on the cross who repented and never took the wafer? Did he go to hell? No! Jesus said he went to paradise.
Many catholics are arrogant enough to say that THEY "gave" us the Bible.
The catholic organisation mearly defined what IT would use as the Bible, NOT what the Bible was.
Long before the council of hippo "gave us the bible", Origen, born A.D. 185 and died A.D. 254, named ALL the books of the Bible in his writings and Eusebius, 270 A.D., lists ALL of the books of the NT.
The Old Testament books were gathered into one volume and were translated from Hebrew into Greek long before Christ came to earth.
It cannot be proven that the Catholic Church is solely responsible for the gathering and selection of the New Testament books. In fact, it can be shown that the New Testament books were gathered into one volume and were in circulation long before the Catholic Church claims to have taken its action in 390 at the council of Hippo.
God did not give councils the authority to select His sacred books, nor does He expect men to receive His sacred books only because of councils or on the basis of councils. It takes no vote or sanction of a council to make the books of the Bible authoritative. Men were able to rightly discern which books were inspired before the existence of ecclesiastical councils and men can do so today. A council of men in 390 with no divine authority whatever, supposedly took upon itself the right to state which books were inspired, and Catholics argue, "We can accept the Bible only on the authority of the Catholic Church." Can we follow such reasoning?
If the Bible is a Catholic book, how can Catholics account for the passage, "A bishop then, must be blameless, married but once, reserved, prudent, of good conduct, hospitable, a teacher...He should rule well his own household, keeping his children under control and perfectly respectful. For if a man cannot rule his own household, how is he to take care of the church of God?" (1 Tim. 3:2, 4-5). The Catholic Church does not allow a bishop to marry, while the Bible says "he must be married." Furthermore, if the Bible is a Catholic book, why did they write the Bible as it is, and feel the necessity of putting footnotes at the bottom of the page in effort to keep their subject from believing what is in the text?
If the Bible is a Catholic book,
1. Why does it condemn clerical dress? (Matt. 23:5-6).
2. Why does it teach against the adoration of Mary? (Luke 11:27-28).
3. Why does it show that all Christians are priests? (1 Pet. 2:5,9).
4. Why does it condemn the observance of special days? (Gal. 4:9-11).
5. Why does it teach that all Christians are saints? (1 Cor. 1:2).
6. Why does it condemn the making and adoration of images? (Ex. 20:4-5).
7. Why does it teach that baptism is immersion instead of pouring? (Col. 2:12).
8. Why does it forbid us to address religious leaders as "father"? (Matt. 23:9).
9. Why does it teach that Christ is the only foundation and not the apostle Peter? (1 Cor. 3:11).
10. Why does it teach that there is one mediator instead of many? (1 Tim. 2:5).
11. Why does it teach that a bishop must be a married man? (1 Tim. 3:2, 4-5).
12. Why is it opposed to the primacy of Peter? (Luke 22:24-27).
13. Why does it oppose the idea of purgatory? (Luke 16:26).
14. Why is it completely silent about infant baptism, instrumental music in worship, indulgences, confession to priests, the rosary, the mass, and many other things in the Catholic Church?
Now, please my friend, when you reply to this, please stick to just a couple of points per post, then it will be easier to respond to, unless you want to make a VERY long post answering ALL these points in one post, hoping that no-one will take the trouble to address your points.
Judgment begins with us.....and if it begins with us then let us as Christians first become those who are pure in heart and who walk upright in obedience to His word before going out to correct others.....
What judgments should the church expect from the Holy Spirit? Revelations 2-3 addresses the seven churches of Asia....these are the judgments I believe are the ones the church must come to address and repent of before we can claim to be His Bride...IMHO...
I enjoyed this teaching on the seven churches....http://randalldsmith.com/the-end-of-the-world-seven-deadly-sins-revelation-2-3/
These are excerpts from that teaching.......
(1) Ephesus (Revelation 2:1-7) - the church that had forsaken its first love (2:4). Neglected priorities-placing other things more important or above God: 2:1 “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: … 4 ‘But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 ‘Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place—unless you repent. …”
(2) Smyrna (Revelation 2:8-11) - the church that would suffer persecution (2:10). Fear of persecution-people fail to witness to others for fear of persecution: 2:8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: .. 10 ‘Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life…”
(3) Pergamum (Revelation 2:12-17) - the church that needed to repent (2:16). Compromise of principles-allowing false teachings, etc: 2:12 “And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write: … 14 ‘But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality. 15 ‘So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 ‘Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth… “
(4) Thyatira (Revelation 2:18-29) - the church that had a false prophetess (2:20). Tolerating immorality: 2:18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write: .. 20 ‘But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. ..”
(5) Sardis (Revelation 3:1-6) - the church that had fallen asleep (3:2). Spiritual Apathy:3:1 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: ‘I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 ‘Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God. 3 ‘So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you. …”
(6) Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7-13) - the church that had endured patiently (3:10). Dwindling Stability, where we won't push to deliberately build the body of believers:
3:7 “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: …8 ‘I know your deeds. Behold, I have put before you an open door which no one can shut, because you have a little power, and have kept My word, and have not denied My name. …”
Faithful, but barely hanging on – that is the truth behind thousands of churches and literally MILLIONS of anemic and sickly Christians.
Alzheimer’s Christian: Remembers only selectively what God has done before, but fails to be able to connect with what may be happening in the Kingdom around him today. Autistic Christian: Stuck on a phrase and often inappropriate in responses. Unable to connect to anyone that has no special training to understand them. Epileptic Christian: Not in control of all energies expended. Seems passionate but strangely disconnected from the body, randomly expending great energy not directed by any leadership or head. Leprous Christian: Unfeeling toward other parts of the body and infectiously causing a spreading numbness of insensitivity that kills good growth. Obese Christian: Ready to sit and eat with no real intent to get up and DO anything, they become expert food critics of the messages they hear. Burned Christian: Because of an experience that often has nothing to do with the current body they are in, they are in constant need of careful handling and touchy care. Anorexic Christian: Unable to see themselves as God says they are, they continue to self inspect for every flaw, totally overtaken in their own issues. Heart Diseased Christian: Unable to function normally because of other contributing behaviors that have weakened their endurance.
(7) Laodicea (Revelation 3:14-22) - the church with the lukewarm faith (3:16). Lukewarm/Luxury Distraction-focused more on themselves: 3:14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this: 15 ‘I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. 16 ‘So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. 17 ‘Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked…”
1 Peter 4:17
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
So I humbly submit this topic not to condemn but to bring awareness to our need to judge ourselves rather than what others are guilty of in their walk with God.
Your thoughts please....