Saturday or Sunday?

[BobRyan]

1 hour ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Saturday or Sunday.   ITS Friday today.   Who has the days confused.  

You live on a "round" planet right? International date line and all..

[Riccardo]

2 minutes ago, Abdicate said:

'm done talking about this because you all only read "legal" and "law" when I'm not even trying to make that argument. You all don't read. You see what you want to see and believe incorrectly and then accuse me of saying something I am not.

I understand your frustration it is difficult at times. I go down that rd often.

Have a nice day n God Bless

[BobRyan]

5 minutes ago, Abdicate said:

I'm done talking about this because you all only read "legal" and "law" when I'm not even trying to make that argument. You all don't read. You see what you want to see and believe incorrectly and then accuse me of saying something I am not. 

All who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer what?? 2 Tim 3:12

³ Suffer hardship with me, as a good soldier of Christ Jesus.  2 Tim 2:3

And remember that "discussion" such as on this board is in fact the "IDEAL" scenario because on the 500th celebration of the Protestant Reformation  nobody here is being burned alive for holding to the Bible above the traditions of man.

[HAZARD]

14 minutes ago, BobRyan said:

That post is a perfect example of the self-conflicted argument that must be constructed to sustain the arguments against God's Sabbath Commandment.

For example it argues that we are not to judge -- only to flat out condemn Sabbath Keeping as if it were paganism and loss of salvation.

PROOF:

1. The quote from Galatians 4 makes no mention at all of Sabbath keeping - it is in fact Paul flat out condemning gentile Christians that have reverted back to keeping pagan holy days... Paul argues that to keep even one of them is a rejection of Christianity - a rejection of the Gospel.

 

2. AND YET - in Romans 14 Paul argues that NO ONE is to judge or condemn any Christian that keeps one of the Bible-APPROVED holy days. "one man observes one day above another while another man observes THEM ALL " Romans 14

<Thus in the actual Bible - all pagan holy days are condemned - and all Bible approved holy days -- (see Lev 23) are defended>

Notice all the Gal 4 "details" you left out -- as would be needed - to make the case you made in your post.

Gal 4

⁸ Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. ⁹ But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? ¹⁰ You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! ¹¹ I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

Paul is condemning their return to paganism... observing pagan days... your bait-and-switch swaps in one of God's TEN commandments in the place of "paganism" in Gal 4 ... in order to get the NT to condemn it in the that the doctrine against God's commandment "needs" but does not "have" in Galatians 4.

Notice that D.L. Moody, Andy Stanley, C.H Spurgeon, Baptist Confession of Faith, Westminster Confession of Faith... and many many others all claim to KEEP the Sabbath commandment (a bent Sabbath that points to week day one.. and not "The Seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD Thy God" Ex 20:10) - but your argument above condemns them alike for daring to refuse all out war against the entire concept of Sabbath -- daring to call their observance some sort of compliance with the Word of God on that point.

This perfectly illustrates Christ's argument against the traditions-of-man invented to wage war against even one of the Commandments of God - in Mark 7:6-13

 

 

 

     Hi Bob, please don't get annoyed, this is a discussion board and everyone here has a right to have our say on the doctrine being discussed.

The Jewish culture in the Old Testament was largely based upon ceremonial laws established by God, and those laws were ways of understanding things greater than themselves. The ceremonial laws (ceremonies) were literally a SHADOW of future things to come. They were physical ways of remembering divine truths...

Hebrews 10:1-4, “For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.”

Notice carefully in the preceding Scripture passage that ceremonial laws are only a remembrance of things to come, SHADOWS and not the very IMAGE of the thing they symbolized. For example: The spotless male lamb which was killed by the tabernacle high priest (and its blood applied to the mercy seat in the holy place once a year) was a shadow of the coming Messiah, the Christ. It reminded them that our sins are washed away by the precious, literal, physical, blood of the Messiah. Jesus is the actual Lamb of God which every sacrificial lamb in the Old Testament pictured. The lamb being sacrificed each year reminded the people continually that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. It reminded them that their sins had to atoned for with blood. Ceremonial Laws ceased at the cross.

The Bible teaches that the ceremonial laws CEASED when Jesus died on the cross. Colossians 2:16, “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days.” The reason why is, as we learned earlier, because a shadow no longer appears when the sun is directly overhead. Jesus was the fulfilment of the Sabbath day.        

Man working 6-days a week pictured human self-righteousness, trying to merit eternal life, as did Cain foolishly. Cain tried to impress God by his works, but God rejected it. In sharp contrast, his younger brother Abel killed an innocent animal and offered up a blood sacrifice, which expressed his faith in the coming Messiah. God was pleased by Abel's faith in Christ. Cain made the same grave error as did his father, Adam, when he sewed together fig leaves in an attempt to cover his nakedness. God rejected Adam's fig-leaf religion. The Lord killed an innocent animal and shed its blood to provide skins of clothing (picturing God's righteousness) to cloth Adam and Eve. From Genesis to Revelation the major theme of the Bible is the importance and absolute need for the precious, literal, physical, blood of Jesus Christ—“the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world” (John 1:29).

It is in Jesus Christ Whom we completely rest for forgiveness of sin and salvation. Hebrews 4:10-11, “For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.” There is a poisonous doctrine which has crept into many churches today, teaching that faith in Christ is insufficient to save a sinner unless they also have an accompanying determination (intent) to cease from living in sin as proof that their faith is valid. This is salvation by prequalification by works, which is a backdoor approach to works salvation (a false plan of salvation). This is a dangerous mindset rooted in self-righteousness.

The Bible teaches that we are saved by placing our trust in Christ, period. Anyone who receives Christ's death, burial and resurrection as full-payment for their sins is saved. Even childlike faith is enough to save a person. My friend, there are no conditions of salvation.

 

[HAZARD]

16 minutes ago, Abdicate said:

You can search for my entries because I have already addressed this. I don't have much desire to debate or prove any more. Those that want the truth and do their own homework will come to the same conclusion I did. In fact, in my chronology study, I still shows Jesus rose on Sunday. I've not had the time to change it.

 

"And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun." (Mark 16:2),

"Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them." (Luke 24:1),

"The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre." (John 20:1),

Christ said he would be three days and three nights in the grave. This should prove it.

 He died on Wednesday and was put in the tomb before sunset that day.

He remained dead Wednesday night, all day Thursdsay, Thursday night, all day Friday, Friday Night, and all day Saturday.

He was resurrected early morning of the first day of the week, the first day of the week is Sunday.

[BobRyan]

38 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

     Hi Bob, please don't get annoyed, this is a discussion board and everyone here has a right to have our say on the doctrine being discussed.

[/quote]

Hi Hazard --

I am not annoyed and I don't take anything personally -- because I agree with you that everyone has a right to their POV and should not be told they do not have that right. I for one fully believe in that statement -- even when I state my own view from the Bible in a rather direct manner.

Quote

 

The Jewish culture in the Old Testament was largely based upon ceremonial laws established by God, and those laws were ways of understanding things greater than themselves. The ceremonial laws (ceremonies) were literally a SHADOW of future things to come.

[/quote]

The Jews did not make up anything in the Bible (2 Tim 3:16, 2Peter 1:19-21) - God gave them many shadows in animal sacrifices pointing to Christ so we have things in 1  Cor 5 of the form "Christ our Passover has been sacrificed". These sacrifices were shadows pointing forward to the sacrifice of Christ. They were also visual aides illustrating key Gospel themes.

 

Edited October 28, 2017 by BobRyan

[BobRyan]

19 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

 

  The lamb being sacrificed each year reminded the people continually that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. It reminded them that their sins had to atoned for with blood. Ceremonial Laws ceased at the cross.

 

The Bible teaches that the ceremonial laws CEASED when Jesus died on the cross.  Colossians 2:16,

True and that point is made in Hebrews 10 just as you point out... but it is not the point of Col 2. In Col 2 Paul specifically attacks the idea of "making stuff up" of judging others based on "things you make up". Christ also condemns that in Matthew 7 before the cross. .It is  "no change" pre-cross or post-Cross.

But the Hebrews 10 teaching IS about a change after the cross - the "end of sacrifices and offerings" -- specifically animal sacrifices and the earthly priesthood of Hebrews 7.

 

Quote

   Man working 6-days a week pictured human self-righteousness, trying to merit eternal life,

 

That looks like you -- quoting God in Exodus 20 - then trying to spin it as some sort of command to "do evil" as if not taking God's name in vain and honoring God's Sabbath were evil laws meant to lead man into more sin.

surely that is not your argument ... right??

Edited October 28, 2017 by BobRyan

[BobRyan]

20 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

. Cain tried to impress God by his works, but God rejected it. In sharp contrast, his younger brother Abel killed an innocent animal and offered up a blood sacrifice, which expressed his faith in the coming Messiah. God was pleased by Abel's faith in Christ.

 

True. The act of obedience to even an animal-sacrifice LAW in the OT on the part of Able was not a sign of "trying to earn heaven by works" rather even Hebrews 11 points out that Noah had a religion of "righteousness by faith" and God points out that the "Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8.

God was not giving commands in the OT to get people to sin or to reject the Gospel in any way. Hopefully we can agree on this basic point.

20 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

It is in Jesus Christ Whom we completely rest for forgiveness of sin and salvation. Hebrews 4:10-11,

 

True. True today and true in the OT.

Thus in Matthew 17 we have both Moses and Elijah standing WITH Christ in glory - BEFORE the cross.

Thus in Hebrews 11 it is the OT giants of faith that are held up before the NT Christians as "models".

Thus we find in 1 Cor 10:2-5 "they all drank from the same Spiritual Rock and that ROCK was Christ" speaking of the OT saints.

Nothing in the Bible says "once the Messiah comes don't worry about trying not to take God's name in vain" ..
Also in Isaiah 66:23 we are told that for all eternity after the cross - in the New Earth "from SABBATH to SABBATH shall ALL MANKIND come  before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

 

[BobRyan]

 

34 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

There is a poisonous doctrine which has crept into many churches today, teaching that faith in Christ is insufficient to save a sinner unless they also have an accompanying determination (intent) to cease from living in sin as proof that their faith is valid.

[/quote]

A great many Christians believe you should not take God's name in vain once you decide to be a Christian.

Many also believe you should cease with child pornography, prostitution.. working as a hit man.. torturing the saints during the Spanish inquisition... once you are converted.

Christ said "By their fruits you shall know them" Matthew 7

James said that "dead faith" is the faith that produces nothing.

We probably both agree on this point.

But the born-again saint in Romans 8:4-9 is contrasted with the lost person this way.. "The mind set on the flesh does NOT submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they"

Thus the saved and the lost are contrasted in that chapter.

Perhaps you agree with this as well.

The Bible teaches that we are saved by placing our trust in Christ, period. Anyone who receives Christ's death, burial and resurrection as full-payment for their sins is saved. Even childlike faith is enough to save a person.  

 

But that does not mean you can live like that devil and "stay saved".

 

"I forgave you ALL That DEBT!!" - Matt 18

I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. ³³ Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ ³⁴ And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. ³⁵ My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

 

Edited October 28, 2017 by BobRyan

[Justin Adams]

12 hours ago, Abdicate said:

Finally, the Feast of First Fruits is the day after the first day of Unleavened Bread, which is a Sabbath, again, to the Jews is the same day, 15 Nisan. Exodus and Leviticus have differing days because God made the distinction when they were in the land if Israel. 

Thanks for the info. Could you point me at a more accurate graph since I have a few and they all differ in a few points. I want to be exact. Truth is exact.

Thanks again.