Conversation about the Tribulation and God`s Wrath.

[missmuffet]

3 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Hi Ya Marilyn C, long time no see (pun intended)!

Well, I'm not going to disagree with Mr. A or Mr. B, assuming they're men. But, my studies indicate to me there's maybe a little more to the tribulation. Such as; not only is the tribulation to punish the sinful gentile Christ rejecting world. But I see the main purpose and the central focus of the Bible after Jesus, as addressing Israel to repentance and calling on the name of their Messiah they rejected to save them from extermination. To put an end to the age of Grace and start the Kingdom of God, after the last person on earth is saved and up we go. 

I can also see a clear three part distinction and division of the seven year tribulation. The wrath of man, the wrath of Satan, and the final three year period as the wrath of God. 

I'd be interested in hearing what Mr. C has to say about all this 

Maybe Mr. C will be biblically correct. Just maybe

[Dennis1209]

10 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Maybe Mr. C will be biblically correct. Just maybe

Well, we have 26 letters in the alphabet, someone's got to be right 

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Hi Ya Marilyn C, long time no see (pun intended)!

Well, I'm not going to disagree with Mr. A or Mr. B, assuming they're men. But, my studies indicate to me there's maybe a little more to the tribulation. Such as; not only is the tribulation to punish the sinful gentile Christ rejecting world. But I see the main purpose and the central focus of the Bible after Jesus, as addressing Israel to repentance and calling on the name of their Messiah they rejected to save them from extermination. To put an end to the age of Grace and start the Kingdom of God, after the last person on earth is saved and up we go. 

I can also see a clear three part distinction and division of the seven year tribulation. The wrath of man, the wrath of Satan, and the final three year period as the wrath of God. 

I'd be interested in hearing what Mr. C has to say about all this 

Hi Dennis,

Well Mr C will have to have scriptural proof for me to look at though, for some of those statements - last person....& 3 part division. Can you draw a simple timeline showing the 3 divisions and the scriptures also?

You are right as per Israel, and glad you brought that up, otherwise my A & B conversation can be askew.

regards, Marilyn.

[Dennis1209]

12 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Dennis,

Well Mr C will have to have scriptural proof for me to look at though, for some of those statements - last person....& 3 part division. Can you draw a simple timeline showing the 3 divisions and the scriptures also?

You are right as per Israel, and glad you brought that up, otherwise my A & B conversation can be askew.

regards, Marilyn.

Yes, if need be I can outline the verses. The tribulation starts off it seems with mans wrath and war and escalates. Next we see Satan coming down and basically taking charge and his fury. The the final 3 1/2 years we have the wrath of God. You don't see that outlined in Revelation?

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Yes, if need be I can outline the verses. The tribulation starts off it seems with mans wrath and war and escalates. Next we see Satan coming down and basically taking charge and his fury. The the final 3 1/2 years we have the wrath of God. You don't see that outlined in Revelation?

Hi Dennis,

Interesting there bro. Hadn`t thought about  that before. So I`m just thinking -

1. Yes man is making war (but it is not punishment for wrongs, but would be for plunder etc.

2. Yes Satan is cast out of the universe area and his power and authority limited even more. However we see that he is influencing the Global leader and rebellious men right through the second part of the trib, for the demons go out and get them to come to Armageddon. However it is not punishment, but in anger against God.

3. God`s punishment is right through the trib, being one-third for a while till over all of great plagues etc. The 7 bowls are the final, completing ones but not the start. `..for in them the wrath (punishment) of God is complete.` (Rev. 15: 1)

Thus I would say, man & Satan`s actions are rebellious while God`s actions are due punishment for iniquity, (great wickedness) Big difference in motivation there. 

regards, Marilyn. 

[Dennis1209]

35 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Dennis,

Interesting there bro. Hadn`t thought about  that before. So I`m just thinking -

1. Yes man is making war (but it is not punishment for wrongs, but would be for plunder etc.

2. Yes Satan is cast out of the universe area and his power and authority limited even more. However we see that he is influencing the Global leader and rebellious men right through the second part of the trib, for the demons go out and get them to come to Armageddon. However it is not punishment, but in anger against God.

3. God`s punishment is right through the trib, being one-third for a while till over all of great plagues etc. The 7 bowls are the final, completing ones but not the start. `..for in them the wrath (punishment) of God is complete.` (Rev. 15: 1)

Thus I would say, man & Satan`s actions are rebellious while God`s actions are due punishment for iniquity, (great wickedness) Big difference in motivation there. 

regards, Marilyn. 

Hey Marilyn!

As usual we basically agree except with some minor details and perhaps timing. We know the official start of the tribulation right? When the Antichrist 'confirms' a covenant with Israel for seven years. In Revelation 6: we have the introduction to the Antichrist, making war. Immediately followed by the seal judgments. Daniel 9:27 talks about the Antichrist 'confirming' the seven year covenant, and where does that fit into the Book of Revelation? A case could be made that this making war and the seal judgments precede the official start of the tribulation. 

All this appears to be prior to 'the man of sin' being possessed by Satan himself, after he is kicked out and his time is short. That's where I'm referring to the wrath of man, then Satan then God. Now I'm getting confused and might be jumbling around? You may be right and I'll leave it at that 

I'm a student of the Bible, and my comments reflect my thought process and how I understand the Bible right or wrong. That's why it's great to discuss these topics, get other's views, go back and study again and see if your interpretation is indeed accurate. I learn much from others and get some of my theology sometimes changed. Other than the core and basic tenets of scripture, I'm always open to other hermeneutic views on prophesy and the like.

I hope no one ever reads any of my posts and thinks I'm rude or a know it all. Sometimes when I write something, then hit send, then reread it, I think to myself, you know that doesn't sound very nice and I didn't mean it to sound that way.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Dennis1209

[Daniel 11:36]

"When the Antichrist 'confirms' a covenant with Israel for seven years"

 

It is not the antichrist that confirms the covenant .... this is what the Lord will do for those of Israel that believe in Him during the tribulation period

The antichrist will attack Israel at the middle of the 70th week decreed .... the tribulation period

Daniel's prophecies are related to Israel alone, not to those who believe in Him just before the tribulation begins   

Edited December 20, 2017 by Daniel 11:36

[Marilyn C]

24 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Hey Marilyn!

As usual we basically agree except with some minor details and perhaps timing. We know the official start of the tribulation right? When the Antichrist 'confirms' a covenant with Israel for seven years. In Revelation 6: we have the introduction to the Antichrist, making war. Immediately followed by the seal judgments. Daniel 9:27 talks about the Antichrist 'confirming' the seven year covenant, and where does that fit into the Book of Revelation? A case could be made that this making war and the seal judgments precede the official start of the tribulation. 

All this appears to be prior to 'the man of sin' being possessed by Satan himself, after he is kicked out and his time is short. That's where I'm referring to the wrath of man, then Satan then God. Now I'm getting confused and might be jumbling around? You may be right and I'll leave it at that 

I'm a student of the Bible, and my comments reflect my thought process and how I understand the Bible right or wrong. That's why it's great to discuss these topics, get other's views, go back and study again and see if your interpretation is indeed accurate. I learn much from others and get some of my theology sometimes changed. Other than the core and basic tenets of scripture, I'm always open to other hermeneutic views on prophesy and the like.

I hope no one ever reads any of my posts and thinks I'm rude or a know it all. Sometimes when I write something, then hit send, then reread it, I think to myself, you know that doesn't sound very nice and I didn't mean it to sound that way.

Hi Dennis,

It was a good point to bring up though. You`re fine with how you come across to me bro. You seem open to the Holy Spirit to correct your thoughts which we all can learn from.

Now just a point of mine. When the Global Leader comes in he does it with deception, and NOT war.

`...through his cunning he shall cause deceit to prosper....` (Dan. 8: 25 etc)

BTW you may wonder why I tend to use the words Global Leader instead of A/C it is because it brings it home to reality of today and not just some `mythical` figure to some people. He is just a man whom everyone thinks has the answers. Who wouldn`t welcome him in this mixed up world. 

regards, Marilyn.

[Dennis1209]

6 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Dennis,

It was a good point to bring up though. You`re fine with how you come across to me bro. You seem open to the Holy Spirit to correct your thoughts which we all can learn from.

Now just a point of mine. When the Global Leader comes in he does it with deception, and NOT war.

`...through his cunning he shall cause deceit to prosper....` (Dan. 8: 25 etc)

BTW you may wonder why I tend to use the words Global Leader instead of A/C it is because it brings it home to reality of today and not just some `mythical` figure to some people. He is just a man whom everyone thinks has the answers. Who wouldn`t welcome him in this mixed up world. 

regards, Marilyn.

Yeah I agree! But, but, but... I don't see how his cunning and deception alone will allow him to deceive and rise to power. We know 'the Global Leader' will be eloquent of speech and a great orator, but I don't see that as the reason he rises to power. It seems like he has to have some sort of outstanding track record and accomplishments first, to get Israel and the world to trust and submit to him? 

He will be one of the worlds best ever military strategists making Sun Tzu look like an idiot. I don't discount the idea he will come from a military background and have major battlefield victories and political ambitions. Then again, one only has to look at Barrack H. Obummer and his background.

[Marilyn C]

20 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Yeah I agree! But, but, but... I don't see how his cunning and deception alone will allow him to deceive and rise to power. We know 'the Global Leader' will be eloquent of speech and a great orator, but I don't see that as the reason he rises to power. It seems like he has to have some sort of outstanding track record and accomplishments first, to get Israel and the world to trust and submit to him? 

He will be one of the worlds best ever military strategists making Sun Tzu look like an idiot. I don't discount the idea he will come from a military background and have major battlefield victories and political ambitions. Then again, one only has to look at Barrack H. Obummer and his background.

Hi Dennis,

It good to go back & forth and think with what the scripture says. So, glad you see that he will deceive. And you hit the nail right on the head, I believe when you said,

`It seems like he has to have some sort of outstanding track record and accomplishments first, to get Israel and the world to trust and submit to him? `

That is very insightful. So that is actually what I am waiting for. I believe this Peace negotiator will bring together the factions in Iraq & some of Syria, and get a division worked out for the 3 groups - Kurds, Sunni & Shiite. The one I`m backing is `Ali Hatem,` who is a royal person, and of the royal family of Saudia Arabia, and also Jordan. he has done peace deals with the USA previously and helped them with his army to get rid of ISIS. However the Shiite government of Iraq has come down heavily on the Sunni and trouble continues. But in the next year or so I believe he will get that `track record.`

Then after that comes the Russian Federation, with Iran, Ethiopia & Libya, brought down to the mountains of Israel by God where they will be annihilated. Wow, then there will be a great power vacuum in the Middle east without the big bear hovering above. All it seems then is for the Middle East to be solved and the world will have peace. Thus into this opportunity comes the Peace Negotiator which both sides (Islam and the West) have dealt with and allow him to negotiate a peace deal with Israel & the Middles East countries.

Then the Islamic countries begin to see this man arising in credibility in the West and thus they gather behind him. Three countries first - Iraq, Syria and Jordan - the old Assyria region.

Things to watch. Marilyn.